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PCUSA (elder brother to PCEA) To Allow Gay Marriages
Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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When it comes to the different bible versions, Alphdoti has a point that the readers and users of the bibles that are translated from "ancient manuscripts" are exceeding hard pressed to defend.
One proponent told me off that I was too rigid, a prisoner of time - if only I could introduce him to Alphtodi.
A Bible is not The Bible.
The only logical thing left to do is become in effect "muslims" - by the relegation of fundamental truths - because hairs will be pulled off trying to explain these things yet they wont be explained.
What I was going to say is already widely known and concrete decisions have been made for or against it and hence there is of no use to rehash it.
Since this discussion has taken the predictable twist to be about the scripts as translated from the "ancient manuscripts" - which incidentally I do not defend and I am against - I do not have much to say, save what I have said.
Alphdoti, please talk to me about your brother. Have you chatted with him?
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/21/2007 Posts: 326
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I thought this discussion was about PCUSA thumping up gay marriages? why did it eventually turn to Christian vs Muslim? My 2 cents - its irrefutable that the translations from the old manuscripts contain some errors HOWEVER, when the Bible is read in its entirity THERE ARE NO CONTRADICTIONS - donot pick on selected texts - read the entire books and you realise there is no contradiction on the message. Now back to the PCUSA, that move has no Biblical support and is therefore null and void at least according to me. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/11/2008 Posts: 2,306
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AlphDoti wrote:kysse wrote:masukuma wrote:kysse wrote:What on earth is a 'denomination book of order'? I am no genius but i guess it's a book that has the order for that denomination Now who wrote the order and when? Does it mean that it's superior to the bible? I don't mean to hurt the religious feeling of any Christian, but I always express what is provocative and challenging to Christians. For those who look for truth, will go and check my comments. You see, Christians differ in their basic beliefs. Church doctrines contradicts the Bible numerous times and that the Bible even contradicts itself! You'll be surprised to learn that in the Bible gay-ism in condemned with strongest words. You see the church continuously carrying out additions, deletions, and alterations of the Bible to suit what they want. Which begs the question: is the Bible God's word? Mr Doti, IS this not the same thing that happens with Shiites, Sufis, wahabis, Sunis, Al Qa'ida ? Boko Haramus and Al shabaabs? Is this not interpretation as I am sure the above sects, denominations, Etc do in Islam. Ama ni goggles umevaa tu? Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:kysse wrote:AlphDoti wrote:
Why is this? Any Christian to explain to us?
After all your research,what's your conclusion on the bible as the written word of God? @AlphDoti - and what do you suggest Christians do with your conclusion? @symbol & @kysse we've One and same Creator. All prophets from Adam to Muhammad (peace be with them all), were sent with the same message: that is, the total submission of mankind to Allah (Almighty God). This submission in Arabic is called Islam; Islam means also Peace, peace between the Creator and His creatures. Unlike the names Judaism and Christianity, the name Islam has been given by Allah, the Creator Himself, as mentioned in Quran surah 5:3: "this day I've perfected your religion for you and completed Mt favour for you, and chosen for you as the way if life Al-Islam as your religion". So I tell you today neither Judaism nor Christianity is found in the Bible, not even in Bible Dictionary. No Israelite prophet mentioned the word Judaism. Jesus never claimed to establish Christianity on earth and never called himself a Christian the term Christian is 'Christ like' and was a degradotory term first given to the church in antioch. @masukuma you're in right path in finding truth. Now ask yourself, Jesus (pbuh) never heard the word "Christianity", he never heard the word "Judaism", and he never preached neither of them. Ask what religion was Jesus (pbuh)? Ask yourself this. The word Christian is mentioned in the Bible. 1. First by pagans and Jews in Antioch about 43AD, long after Jesus (pbuh) had left this earth. Read Acts 11:26: "... and the students of Paul were called Christians first in Antioch" 2. Later by by King Agrippa II to Paul in Acts 26:28: "Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be Christian" So the name Christian was first given by enemies rather than friends. So find out which religion Abraham followed, the man who submitted totally to Allah. The way of life that had been revealed to prophets prior to Abraham like Adam and Noah. It is the way of life prescribed for humankind. They were who they were.... they were not 'muslims' as you would like to think they were. Jesus was jewish (their religion was 'called' judaism). Christian was a derogatory name given to some people who used to gather in houses and followed the teachings of Christ and were 'Christ like'... i stick with the original derogatory nature of the same not the numerical aspects that it took on. You are not 'Christian' because you fill it in a form... you are not 'Christian' coz you have a jewish/anglo name - you are only christian if you are 'Christ like'. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:kysse wrote:AlphDoti wrote:
Why is this? Any Christian to explain to us?
After all your research,what's your conclusion on the bible as the written word of God? @AlphDoti - and what do you suggest Christians do with your conclusion? @symbol & @kysse we've One and same Creator. All prophets from Adam to Muhammad (peace be with them all), were sent with the same message: that is, the total submission of mankind to Allah (Almighty God). This submission in Arabic is called Islam; Islam means also Peace, peace between the Creator and His creatures. Unlike the names Judaism and Christianity, the name Islam has been given by Allah, the Creator Himself, as mentioned in Quran surah 5:3: "this day I've perfected your religion for you and completed Mt favour for you, and chosen for you as the way if life Al-Islam as your religion". So I tell you today neither Judaism nor Christianity is found in the Bible, not even in Bible Dictionary. No Israelite prophet mentioned the word Judaism. Jesus never claimed to establish Christianity on earth and never called himself a Christian the term Christian is 'Christ like' and was a degradotory term first given to the church in antioch. @masukuma you're in right path in finding truth. Now ask yourself, Jesus (pbuh) never heard the word "Christianity", he never heard the word "Judaism", and he never preached neither of them. Ask what religion was Jesus (pbuh)? Ask yourself this. The word Christian is mentioned in the Bible. 1. First by pagans and Jews in Antioch about 43AD, long after Jesus (pbuh) had left this earth. Read Acts 11:26: "... and the students of Paul were called Christians first in Antioch" 2. Later by by King Agrippa II to Paul in Acts 26:28: "Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be Christian" So the name Christian was first given by enemies rather than friends. So find out which religion Abraham followed, the man who submitted totally to Allah. The way of life that had been revealed to prophets prior to Abraham like Adam and Noah. It is the way of life prescribed for humankind. They were who they were.... they were not 'muslims' as you would like to think they were. Jesus was jewish (their religion was 'called' judaism). Christian was a derogatory name given to some people who used to gather in houses and followed the teachings of Christ and were 'Christ like'... i stick with the original derogatory nature of the same not the numerical aspects that it took on. You are not 'Christian' because you fill it in a form... you are not 'Christian' coz you have a jewish/anglo name - you are only christian if you are 'Christ like'. @masukuma thank you for confirming that Jesus (pbuh) never followed any religion called "Christianity". In fact Jesus (pbuh) never heard the term "Christ" in his life. Now, based on definition I gave you earlier "the total submission of mankind to God. This submission in Arabic is called Islam". The first Muslim on earth is not Muhammad (pbuh), but it was Abraham who submitted totally to Allah (Almighty God). This Islam as a way of life had been revealed to other prophets prior to Abraham like Adam and Noah.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Robinhood wrote:AlphDoti wrote:kysse wrote:masukuma wrote:kysse wrote:What on earth is a 'denomination book of order'? I am no genius but i guess it's a book that has the order for that denomination Now who wrote the order and when? Does it mean that it's superior to the bible? I don't mean to hurt the religious feeling of any Christian, but I always express what is provocative and challenging to Christians. For those who look for truth, will go and check my comments. You see, Christians differ in their basic beliefs. Church doctrines contradicts the Bible numerous times and that the Bible even contradicts itself! You'll be surprised to learn that in the Bible gay-ism in condemned with strongest words. You see the church continuously carrying out additions, deletions, and alterations of the Bible to suit what they want. Which begs the question: is the Bible God's word? Mr Doti, IS this not the same thing that happens with Shiites, Sufis, wahabis, Sunis, Al Qa'ida ? Boko Haramus and Al shabaabs? Is this not interpretation as I am sure the above sects, denominations, Etc do in Islam. Ama ni goggles umevaa tu? @Robinhood any Muslim in this world read from the same Qur'an.. You see there were books revealed earlier, Torah (given to Moses), Zabur (given to David), and Injeel (given to Jesus) peace be upon them all. Quran is the last revealed Book which has never been corrupted or adulterated. Its contents have been guaranteed by Allah in Surah 2:2 " This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt...". Surah 15:9 " No doubt We have sent down the Qur'an and surely We will guard it (from corruption)". This verse is challenge to mankind. It is clear fact that more than 1,400 years have passed and not a single word of the Qur'an has been changed! On the contrary, all the other holy books (Torah, Psalms, Gospel etc) have been adulterated in the form of additions, deletions, or alterations from the original.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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AlphDoti wrote:]
@masukuma thank you for confirming that Jesus (pbuh) never followed any religion called "Christianity". In fact Jesus (pbuh) never heard the term "Christ" in his life.
This must've been added by Paul:  Matthew 16 Quote:13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And before we get there, Christ, from Greek Christos=Messiah
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Lolest! wrote:AlphDoti wrote:]
@masukuma thank you for confirming that Jesus (pbuh) never followed any religion called "Christianity". In fact Jesus (pbuh) never heard the term "Christ" in his life.
This must've been added by Paul: Matthew 16 Quote:13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And before we get there, Christ, from Greek Christos=Messiah @lonest! Let me explain again for you. Did Jesus give his religion saying my religion is Christianity? Did he say that I'm Christ? Where did Christianity word come from? It is not even in the Bible itself! If you know, Christ is a Greek translation of the Hebrew word Messiah. The Greek word for messiah is Christos. But Chritos is a bit too long, so the cut off the "os" and left with Christ. So the Greek translation of the Hebrew word messiah is "Christ"-os. Jesus (pbuh) never heard the term "Christ", he never heard the word Christ in his lifetime. He never heard the word Christianity in his lifetime, it was unheard, it is a later on creation.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Kaka, stop trying to spin it. Just admit your lie just like many lies Muhammad told you and you swallowed them hook, line and sinker Jesus heard Peter call him Messiah=Christ. So you really getting us to split hairs. If today I call Raila Rais, then the charge sheet is read that I'm accused of calling him President, would I be in order to deny that I called him President just because the word is in a different language? BTW, that line of Judaism is not in the Torah and Christianity is not in the gospels is bure kabisa  If anything, it just goes to show how far Muhammad went to put his own arguments of what is right and claim it is from God! This Muhammad BTW, was he Muslim? We know that this religion that you claim came from God bars men from getting more than 4 wives yet Muhammad at one time had 11? Or is he above the law(qur'an)?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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One of the most shameful things about Islam is how it was doctored by Muhammad to suit his lusts and strange beliefs. For instance, Muhammad adopts a guy by the name Zayd bin Haritha. He seals the contract PUBLICLY at the kaaba saying: See that Zayd becomes my son with mutual rights of inheritanceLater, Zayd marries Zaynab. He later lusts after Zaynab after seeing her over exposed body and making some mischievous remark about it This leads later to Muhammad's son Zayd divorcing his his wife Zaynab. Muhammad wakes up smiling and claims that in a dream God had given him Zaynab as his wife!-How self serving! As if that is not enough, Mo' gets another (self serving) revelation that adoption is not allowed. This rule is made to save Mo' from criticism from the Arabs under whose culture marrying a daughter in law was taboo So after this Zayd bin Muhammad, Muhammad's son changes to his old name Zayd bin Haritha. Thus reversing his earlier adoption Thus the quran is altered to suit Muhammad's lust and marriage to his daughter in law
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