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Over 50pc of EA graduates half-baked
heri
#21 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 5:49:47 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/14/2011
Posts: 834
Location: nairobi
Masukuma i want to agree with you but also i do not understand what the problem is in Kenya.

In other countries i hear people who have left corporate world go back to teach in the universities and i believe they impact very useful skills

Did i hear for example Sir Alex Ferguson teaches at Harvard?

i wonder why for example someone like Martin Oduor cannot teach leadership at UON? or say someone like Dr James Mwangi of Equity Bank? are these not the right people to teach leadership/Management courses for example or strategy at the universities

Recently i enrolled for a PhD in leadership and governance at JKUAT and i can tell you the lecturers teaching the course are people who have nothing much to offer

They are teaching for the money and have never been in any leadership positions

The only thing i may get is the paper but not really what i was looking for

Can someone like former president Kibaki go and teach at UON?

is it that these calibre of people are too busy to teach?
Swenani
#22 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 6:12:23 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
heri wrote:
Masukuma i want to agree with you but also i do not understand what the problem is in Kenya.

In other countries i hear people who have left corporate world go back to teach in the universities and i believe they impact very useful skills

Did i hear for example Sir Alex Ferguson teaches at Harvard?

i wonder why for example someone like Martin Oduor cannot teach leadership at UON? or say someone like Dr James Mwangi of Equity Bank? are these not the right people to teach leadership/Management courses for example or strategy at the universities

Recently i enrolled for a PhD in leadership and governance at JKUAT and i can tell you the lecturers teaching the course are people who have nothing much to offer

They are teaching for the money and have never been in any leadership positions

The only thing i may get is the paper but not really what i was looking for

Can someone like former president Kibaki go and teach at UON?

is it that these calibre of people are too busy to teach?


Tell those conmen from JKUAT to change the course from "PhD in Leadership and Governance" to "PhD in Management and Governance"


Leadership cannot be imparted through studies. Ask Moi
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
nakujua
#23 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 6:14:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
heri wrote:
Masukuma i want to agree with you but also i do not understand what the problem is in Kenya.

In other countries i hear people who have left corporate world go back to teach in the universities and i believe they impact very useful skills

Did i hear for example Sir Alex Ferguson teaches at Harvard?

i wonder why for example someone like Martin Oduor cannot teach leadership at UON? or say someone like Dr James Mwangi of Equity Bank? are these not the right people to teach leadership/Management courses for example or strategy at the universities

Recently i enrolled for a PhD in leadership and governance at JKUAT and i can tell you the lecturers teaching the course are people who have nothing much to offer

They are teaching for the money and have never been in any leadership positions

The only thing i may get is the paper but not really what i was looking for

Can someone like former president Kibaki go and teach at UON?

is it that these calibre of people are too busy to teach?

I heard somewhere Dakitari Bitange Ndemo anatafuna chalk somewhere in kabete - some of them do, actually I remember sometime back I was invited to give a talk to some MBA students hupo cuea on entrepreneurship, some lectures are pretty good at instilling real life skills to their students.

hata kuho majuu, there are some lectures who have been in school all their lives with little or no outside experience.

Lakini congrats for the PhD, but sasa leadership and governance utapata kazi wapi? smile
murchr
#24 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 6:17:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Well...if you take wazua as a sample. Its quite evident
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Swenani
#25 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 6:21:10 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
nakujua wrote:
heri wrote:
Masukuma i want to agree with you but also i do not understand what the problem is in Kenya.

In other countries i hear people who have left corporate world go back to teach in the universities and i believe they impact very useful skills

Did i hear for example Sir Alex Ferguson teaches at Harvard?

i wonder why for example someone like Martin Oduor cannot teach leadership at UON? or say someone like Dr James Mwangi of Equity Bank? are these not the right people to teach leadership/Management courses for example or strategy at the universities

Recently i enrolled for a PhD in leadership and governance at JKUAT and i can tell you the lecturers teaching the course are people who have nothing much to offer

They are teaching for the money and have never been in any leadership positions

The only thing i may get is the paper but not really what i was looking for

Can someone like former president Kibaki go and teach at UON?

is it that these calibre of people are too busy to teach?

I heard somewhere Dakitari Bitange Ndemo anatafuna chalk somewhere in kabete - some of them do, actually I remember sometime back I was invited to give a talk to some MBA students hupo cuea on entrepreneurship, some lectures are pretty good at instilling real life skills to their students.

hata kuho majuu, there are some lectures who have been in school all their lives with little or no outside experience.

Lakini congrats for the PhD, but sasa leadership and governance utapata kazi wapi? smile


I just hope you didn't talk to those students about non employability skills
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
Bykhovets
#26 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 6:22:52 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/17/2014
Posts: 231
nakujua wrote:
dunkang wrote:
nakujua wrote:
I am not even baked, and yet I went through a kenyan university in the rift valley - no wonder I lack employability skills, technical mastery and basic work-related capabilities - worked for three years in 5 different places and I was sacked in 4 of the places.
sasa mimi ni stay at home dad.
naomba wazua munisaidie na kazi, since I have realized kuna masonko hapa, tafadhali.

Sad Sad Sad
Went to a rift valley based public university... (Moi or Egerton)

3 Years experience in 5 different work places..DAFUQ!

Sacked 4 times...Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

WEWE KWISHA! SEMA WHICH FIELD OF STUDY!!! They can't just give you a medicine job when you studied textile, you know!

badala unihurumie unanicheka, smile - I will not mention names since I might face a defamation suit, lakini my time huko was spent mostly buying goats from a neaby famous place for that and enjoying the nyam chom with the boys every other weekend, na kuteremusha with some yummy yogurt which was in plenty.

I have applied for many jobs for 4 years now from my last sacking, mpaka I have given up.


He he he! Najua wapi huko. smile

Did you ever drive a tractor on one of those farms? Or roast maize in the bushes?

I know someone who went there, did all those things, and now works at Microsoft. So it must be you who is like those ndengu that remain stone-hard despite cooking. Haupikiki smile
"Occasionally I drop a tea cup to shatter on the floor. On purpose. I am not satisfied when it does not gather itself up again. Someday perhaps that cup will come together."
nakujua
#27 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 6:30:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
Swenani wrote:
nakujua wrote:
heri wrote:
Masukuma i want to agree with you but also i do not understand what the problem is in Kenya.

In other countries i hear people who have left corporate world go back to teach in the universities and i believe they impact very useful skills

Did i hear for example Sir Alex Ferguson teaches at Harvard?

i wonder why for example someone like Martin Oduor cannot teach leadership at UON? or say someone like Dr James Mwangi of Equity Bank? are these not the right people to teach leadership/Management courses for example or strategy at the universities

Recently i enrolled for a PhD in leadership and governance at JKUAT and i can tell you the lecturers teaching the course are people who have nothing much to offer

They are teaching for the money and have never been in any leadership positions

The only thing i may get is the paper but not really what i was looking for

Can someone like former president Kibaki go and teach at UON?

is it that these calibre of people are too busy to teach?

I heard somewhere Dakitari Bitange Ndemo anatafuna chalk somewhere in kabete - some of them do, actually I remember sometime back I was invited to give a talk to some MBA students hupo cuea on entrepreneurship, some lectures are pretty good at instilling real life skills to their students.

hata kuho majuu, there are some lectures who have been in school all their lives with little or no outside experience.

Lakini congrats for the PhD, but sasa leadership and governance utapata kazi wapi? smile


I just hope you didn't talk to those students about non employability skills

Laughing out loudly , I was talking to them about biashara, and encouraged them to study hard so that they could come out and apply their management skills, you see most hustler biasharas do not have that part which is vital in growth and stability, and most business students shun such establishments so exposure to them on the same is good.
nakujua
#28 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 6:40:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
Bykhovets wrote:
nakujua wrote:
dunkang wrote:
nakujua wrote:
I am not even baked, and yet I went through a kenyan university in the rift valley - no wonder I lack employability skills, technical mastery and basic work-related capabilities - worked for three years in 5 different places and I was sacked in 4 of the places.
sasa mimi ni stay at home dad.
naomba wazua munisaidie na kazi, since I have realized kuna masonko hapa, tafadhali.

Sad Sad Sad
Went to a rift valley based public university... (Moi or Egerton)

3 Years experience in 5 different work places..DAFUQ!

Sacked 4 times...Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

WEWE KWISHA! SEMA WHICH FIELD OF STUDY!!! They can't just give you a medicine job when you studied textile, you know!

badala unihurumie unanicheka, smile - I will not mention names since I might face a defamation suit, lakini my time huko was spent mostly buying goats from a neaby famous place for that and enjoying the nyam chom with the boys every other weekend, na kuteremusha with some yummy yogurt which was in plenty.

I have applied for many jobs for 4 years now from my last sacking, mpaka I have given up.


He he he! Najua wapi huko. smile

Did you ever drive a tractor on one of those farms? Or roast maize in the bushes?

I know someone who went there, did all those things, and now works at Microsoft. So it must be you who is like those ndengu that remain stone-hard despite cooking. Haupikiki smile

Laughing out loudly , sisi tulikuwa tunachinja punda while frequenting gardens that had a cheetah or a leopard on the loose.

the school especially the department I was in had some hot ovens that somehow enabled guys to get nice jobs sijui Microsoft, ifes ...
lakini I must have missed one of those job responsibility classes, must have been those 100+ student classes that I never bothered to attend.
mkeiy
#29 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 6:43:23 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
washiku wrote:
What exactly do employers mean when they say the graduates are half-baked? The problem at hand is our education system...Unless we say the universities are producing un-trainable graduates, then I wonder what exactly we are talking about. Why? Because most of the skills that we apply in our day to day jobs were never taught in school. Companies train their staff on the specific jobs they have hired them to do. Each and every company have its unique way of doing things to a great extent :

Eg Think of three University graduates who did Sales and Marketing and are employed by Safaricom, EABL and Barclays. If they are put in charge of growing a specific product line, each of these companies will have to take them through training so as to align them to the specific companies' strategy, markets, systems, etc. When at campus, I dont think the university will give the students training specific to any company or any product.

Think of Accounts Graduate. Once they are out of school and they get employed in different companies, they will go and find the companies are using different accounting systems...from different software providers, which will be changed periodically every time the senior managers feels they need to "eat" through procuring a different system.

What is being taught in school and what is happening out here is very very different. Unless the education system is changed and remains dynamic in the changes, employers will continue complaining. After all even most of the lecturers teaching in those schools have never been to the real job situation thus they got nil experience on how it actually happens on the ground. It doesnt matter how fluently one can recite theories of economics, once you are thrown to a financial institution to run even a section like treasury you will realize it takes much more than what was taught in class. That is why I find the executive MBA in strathmore much more realistic way of teaching university students than these other MBAs with 1000 people in a single class as if its a Comm Skills 101 class.

Universities may only give you the ability to use your brain coherently and critically. Beyond that, what will be most important is the right ATTITUDE. That way you may be trained to do anything out here.

How can FKE work with university bosses to develop the right curriculum?




@washiku. When employers say graduates are half-baked, they mean they are not the finished product.

You see, after years in university, you should be able to communicate, know how to spell, know how to solve basic work-related hitches. How can i employ you as an assistant, then go on spelling every other word to you? HOW? Keep on showing you how to use Microsoft Excel, yet a are a graduate in B.Com accounting option, with several computing certificates with spreadsheet on all of them?

In short, be of meaningful use to the employer.

If you have done accounts but cannot solve simple mathematical problems, there's trouble. A graduate who doesn't know South Africa's currency, there is trouble. Doesn't know where Switzerland is [continent-wise], there's trouble.

Biggest TROUBLE of them all, they don't seem to know that they are employed to work. They are more interested in showing up at work place and behaving as if they are doing you favors by WORKING.

I think the youth stopped thinking with the advent of private universities and para. I mean, how can you be working for a bank or foreign affairs ministry and know less than a layman? HOW?

Compare current graduates and those of 80s and early 90s. Those guys know virtually everything.

All the above is from personal experience.
D32
#30 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 6:47:19 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 808
masukuma wrote:
what do people really want from schools? really?
let's talk business - if you are being taught by a person who has never run a business or founded a business - unaexpect nini?
if you are being taught electronics engineering by a person whose claim to fame is reading more electronic engineering books than you - there is a problem.
if you are being taught computer science by a person whose last programming job was actually programming some system in fortran 30 years ago... WE HAVE A PROBLEM!!
Question - do you expect market leaders to leave their jobos are go to universities to teach? how can we get this 'bakedness' back


Word!

I don't blame the kids because they are being imparted with knowledge that is relative to the institution's caliber. If they kids had a choice, they would be abroad.

It is through the educational system that individuals are imparted with the knowledge to innovate, but we find that Kenya's educational system produces graduates who's knowledge falls short compared with peers from other parts of the globe. Judge by the caliber of projects that the institutions and students produce.

Can't we have a policy on education that requires the local standards to be nothing less than the best global standards?

This will mean courses will be of the same caliber as those at MIT, Stanford, CalTec etc...

Changes will obviously have to be done, e.g. getting first world academia veterans to head and teach in our institutions, as you cannot expect the student to become any better than teacher, as @masukuma puts it.

To get things rolling, all it takes is a decision. This is not too ambitious, as this is the single greatest thing that the Gov can do to transform the country.
They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds.
nakujua
#31 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 7:04:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
mkeiy wrote:

@washiku. When employers say graduates are half-baked, they mean they are not the finished product.

You see, after years in university, you should be able to communicate, know how to spell, know how to solve basic work-related hitches. How can i employ you as an assistant, then go on spelling every other word to you? HOW? Keep on showing you how to use Microsoft Excel, yet a are a graduate in B.Com accounting option, with several computing certificates with spreadsheet on all of them?

In short, be of meaningful use to the employer.

If you have done accounts but cannot solve simple mathematical problems, there's trouble. A graduate who doesn't know South Africa's currency, there is trouble. Doesn't know where Switzerland is [continent-wise], there's trouble.

Biggest TROUBLE of them all, they don't seem to know that they are employed to work. They are more interested in showing up at work place and behaving as if they are doing you favors by WORKING.

I think the youth stopped thinking with the advent of private universities and para. I mean, how can you be working for a bank or foreign affairs ministry and know less than a layman? HOW?

Compare current graduates and those of 80s and early 90s. Those guys know virtually everything.

All the above is from personal experience.


hapo umesema ukweli, the curriculum in most schools is outdated and the student come into the workforce armed with a head which is fully and properly stuffed with content that was relevant in the 60's and 70's.
murchr
#32 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 7:41:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
@mkei, so the problem is private universities? I think the problem is CHE. Why are accounting exams not in excel?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
kysse
#33 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 9:32:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/17/2013
Posts: 4,693
Location: Earth
Was trying to explain something concerning Jebel Ali to a graduate,when she paused and asked 'who's Jebel Ali.?
She couldn't even tell the diff btwn an original and a photocopied doc!
Eventually I was forced to ask,OK do you know vera sidika and nishike?

Now where does one begin with this graduate when work interest is 0 and is always on whatssup?
They end up being a liability instead of assets.
nakujua
#34 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 9:40:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
kysse wrote:
Was trying to explain something concerning Jebel Ali to a graduate,when she paused and asked 'who's jebel ali.?
She couldn't even tell the diff btwn an original and a photocopied doc!
Eventually I was forced to ask,do you know vera sidika and nishike?


smile , enyewe mimi si baked - reading through I was also trying to figure out who Jebel Ali is, had to engage my friend google.

hata huyu nishike mimi sijui yeye, at least lary reduced my rawness concerning sidika.

and how do you differentiate between an original and photocopied one, assuming hakuna signature, or if the signature is in a fine black pen.

vane, hii masomo ni ngumu sasa. smile
dunkang
#35 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 9:47:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
kysse wrote:
Was trying to explain something concerning Jebel Ali to a graduate,when she paused and asked 'who's jebel ali.?
She couldn't even tell the diff btwn an original and a photocopied doc!
Eventually I was forced to ask,do you know vera sidika and nishike?


Kwani hizi interviews za non-technical courses ni funny aje.

Yaani i can refuse to give a graduate a job because of not knowing where or what Jebel Ali is, yet he can analyse, size and detail a floor slab?

Be realistic, kama hutaki kupatia mtu kazi, wacheni excuses!
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

simonkabz
#36 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 10:01:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
nakujua wrote:
kysse wrote:
Was trying to explain something concerning Jebel Ali to a graduate,when she paused and asked 'who's jebel ali.?
She couldn't even tell the diff btwn an original and a photocopied doc!
Eventually I was forced to ask,do you know vera sidika and nishike?


smile , enyewe mimi si baked - reading through I was also trying to figure out who Jebel Ali is, had to engage my friend google.

hata huyu nishike mimi sijui yeye, at least lary reduced my rawness concerning sidika.

and how do you differentiate between an original and photocopied one, assuming hakuna signature, or if the signature is in a fine black pen.

vane, hii masomo ni ngumu sasa. smile

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Kysse has made me feel like a goat!
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
kysse
#37 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 10:02:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/17/2013
Posts: 4,693
Location: Earth
Why kabz???

@dunkang sio interview.
There are basics if one is employed in a certain industry.For instance,you employ me to work in a law firm under a certain capacity halafu sijui 'Pro bono' ni nini or an Accountant who can't tell what debit/credit is.Kitu ka hiyo...
it makes others wonder if your papers are real.


@ nakujua wacha kutuenjoy..
You must be the most learned fellow here,ulifanya malkiat sigh a give up.
See we are KCPE cert holders na tunakushinda.lol.
simonkabz
#38 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 10:11:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
kysse wrote:
Why kabz???

@dunkang sio interview.
There are basics if one is employed in a certain industry.For instance,you employ me to work in a law firm under a certain capacity halafu sijui 'Pro bono' ni nini or an Accountant who can't tell what debit/credit is.Kitu ka hiyo...
it makes others wonder if your papers are real.


@ nakujua wacha kutuenjoy..
You must be the most learned fellow here,ulifanya malkiat sigh a give up.
See we are KCPE cert holders na tunakushinda.lol.

You hit me with a JUCHE!
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
kysse
#39 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 10:20:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/17/2013
Posts: 4,693
Location: Earth
ROFLMAO @ JUCHE.
2012
#40 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 10:20:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
dunkang wrote:
2012 wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:
Half baked or just raw?


I personally think they are too baked but on outdated stuff and theories. Most of them learn new skills from scratch when employed. But I think KU, JKUAT and Strathmore are doing well.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Boss, hapo umetereza.

I have worked with graduate and registered civil and agric. engineers from all universities that offer the course, accredited by EBK or not, and i can tell you for free, ITS NOT ABOUT WHICH UNIVERSITY YOU WENT TO, ITS THE INDIVIDUAL'S BIDII YA KUJUA VITU HARAKA HARAKA once employed!

@Nakujua has told us that he/she spent all her time at Moi (or is it Egerton) buying goats, drinking and partying, once employed, he/she refused to learn. Matokeo ni hayo sasa. BEING SACKED AFTER EVERY 6 Months!


I agree with you that it's up to the individual, everything is up to the person but the university matters as well eg. those of you like me who had the honour of attending UON know that nobody fails in UON and the lecturers there show up when they feel like and teach how they feel like but can't have students failing their class because atamulikwa. How can you get quality out of that? But I know their medical school and law are up there.

BBI will solve it
:)
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