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Is Taking a Mortgage the WORST Decision Ever??
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/9/2008 Posts: 5,389
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premio wrote:Phenom estate 4bedroom massionnettes was 14m in 2012 today 22m even if u took a mortgage at that time assuming uve paid only 1m u can sell at 22m make a clean 9000000kes and buy a similar house on msa road or build your own mansion on a 3m prime plot Can you sell a house which you are still servicing a mortgage?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,455
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jaggernaut wrote:radio wrote:Boss, before yoy leave, drop me the contacts at radio.icloud@gmail Asante! Hata mimi jnaut at ymail dot com Sent Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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jaggernaut wrote:premio wrote:Phenom estate 4bedroom massionnettes was 14m in 2012 today 22m even if u took a mortgage at that time assuming uve paid only 1m u can sell at 22m make a clean 9000000kes and buy a similar house on msa road or build your own mansion on a 3m prime plot Can you sell a house which you are still servicing a mortgage? YES! In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/9/2009 Posts: 2,003
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MaichBlack wrote:jaggernaut wrote:radio wrote:Boss, before yoy leave, drop me the contacts at radio.icloud@gmail Asante! Hata mimi jnaut at ymail dot com Sent Received! Thanks.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/9/2008 Posts: 5,389
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Angelica _ann wrote:jaggernaut wrote:premio wrote:Phenom estate 4bedroom massionnettes was 14m in 2012 today 22m even if u took a mortgage at that time assuming uve paid only 1m u can sell at 22m make a clean 9000000kes and buy a similar house on msa road or build your own mansion on a 3m prime plot Can you sell a house which you are still servicing a mortgage? YES! Are you serious? I've always thought that the bank holds the title of the property until you clear the mortgage.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/30/2008 Posts: 6,029
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jaggernaut wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:jaggernaut wrote:premio wrote:Phenom estate 4bedroom massionnettes was 14m in 2012 today 22m even if u took a mortgage at that time assuming uve paid only 1m u can sell at 22m make a clean 9000000kes and buy a similar house on msa road or build your own mansion on a 3m prime plot Can you sell a house which you are still servicing a mortgage? YES! Are you serious? I've always thought that the bank holds the title of the property until you clear the mortgage. YES.The new buyer prepares 2 cheques,one to offset the mortgage and the other for the purported owner.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2012 Posts: 1,317
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mawinder wrote:premio wrote:Phenom estate 4bedroom massionnettes was 14m in 2012 today 22m even if u took a mortgage at that time assuming uve paid only 1m u can sell at 22m make a clean 9000000kes and buy a similar house on msa road or build your own mansion on a 3m prime plot You mean the Phenom next to Carnivore the houses there go for 22m?The buyers must be financially illiterate to buy at that price Phenom Estate anyone paying more than 15m is throwing money. Link
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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proximity to the southern bypass gives these houses a commercial income/office/shop potential in future. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,455
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Twenty Years a Slave!Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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Athi View were selling at 9.95M off plan last year in August. They wanted a down payment of 2M and you can book your house. They have since started work, and even gone to the extent of tarmacing the road from Mombasa Road. Now remaining units are selling at 12.5M. Thats a 25.5% return in less than a year. Watch that space. http://www.athiview.com/ Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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mawinder wrote:jaggernaut wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:jaggernaut wrote:premio wrote:Phenom estate 4bedroom massionnettes was 14m in 2012 today 22m even if u took a mortgage at that time assuming uve paid only 1m u can sell at 22m make a clean 9000000kes and buy a similar house on msa road or build your own mansion on a 3m prime plot Can you sell a house which you are still servicing a mortgage? YES! Are you serious? I've always thought that the bank holds the title of the property until you clear the mortgage. YES.The new buyer prepares 2 cheques,one to offset the mortgage and the other for the purported owner. But are there takers at 22 million? The monthly installments for 14M are staggering wacha hiyo hata 22! ..assuming an interest rate disaster like 2012 does not happen again...you are financially crippled for 15 to 20 years. My sacco passed the increased rate in 2012 on a loan I had taken from 12% to 22%, saying the loan had been underwritten by a bank and the bank had changed the rules. It was very painful indeed. It opened my eyes to just how much misery can come your way when you are holding a large debt to be repaid over many years. Kenyan banks are rogues. Simple. Minimise exposure by building your house, its a pain in the ass but it lasts 4 to 6 years and leaves you with small manageable debt or no debt depending on how your resources and planning are. 20 years? Ngoja 2016 utaona...... Again I ask, who are these people buying 22 million houses? The kenyan mortgage market is unnatural.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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I have worked closely with very rich Kenyans and what I have noticed is that the rich are very carefull about managing risk. In fact, they don't take chances with their wealth and health. I believe that is why the very rich choose to invest in real estate or at least will have a real estate portfolio. This is not to say that they do not take loans and mortgages, but these are carefully calculated to ensure they remain on top of things even in the worst case scenario. Not so for 'Wanjiku'. 'Wanjiku' will jump at any opportunity as long as it holds some hope, no matter how vague, of a better tomorrow. This therefore becomes her downfall and with each successive defeat, she grows more desperate to get ahead and takes greater risks that occasion greater losses. Of course, by pure chance, a 'wanjiku' will take a risk and succeed. Others will look at her and think they can replicate the success by taking even greater risk. I have decided, the way to get ahead is by losing as little as possible. A sustained 10-15% gain with minimal to moderate risk is better than 100% gain with high risk. By risk, I mean risk to my person rather than risk of the investment. I may afford to lose 10,000 on investment 'A' which is a high risk venture, but my neighbour would be crushed by a 5000 loss in a similar investment. When I consider mortgage, this is the way I choose to look at it. Chances are, people buying 22 million houses on mortgage can probably afford to buy it for cash. However, they would rather use their cash for something else and can afford to drop that house like a hot cake if bad turns to worse and they will not end up on the street. Of course some 'wanjiku' will try to keep up and when the music stops, she will be caught out in the cold, and start blaming everyone else about it. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/9/2008 Posts: 5,389
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Phew! C&PThe average size of a mortgage rose to Sh6.9 million last year, further pushing away the dream of financed home ownership from the majority of Kenyans. A borrower who takes a loan of Sh6.9 million at 16.37 per cent over 20 years has to pay Sh97,917 a month (totaling 23.5m). The average allowable ratio of loan installment to income is approximately 51 per cent. This means that for a borrower to service the Sh97,917 installment they would have to be earning a salary of over Sh180,000. Central Bank said that 1,280 mortgage loans valued at Sh8.4 billion were in default compared to 956 accounts in 2012 worth Sh6.7 billion.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 4/12/2014 Posts: 36
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A mortgage is not intended to be taken to it's full term, and I am sure if you look at past stats, it will show most mortgages are completed in between 5-7 years. The essence of a mortgage in the Kenyan setup in my view is to secure the house - which is usually very fast appreciating, as you source/wait for wind fall gains to complete the payments. Mortgage is to shikilia, so you lock the house price. Incomes, like lifestyle generally go up over time and windfall gains are also an economics fact. The mathematics of NPV, IRR, PBP etc cannot be logically computed with accuracy in our peculiar environment. My advice would be to take a mortgage and hassle to pay as quick as you can, over time you will find you are wealthier, than if you panicked and listened to the likes of @maich It’s what you learn after you think you know it all that counts.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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KulaRaha wrote:Athi View were selling at 9.95M off plan last year in August. They wanted a down payment of 2M and you can book your house. They have since started work, and even gone to the extent of tarmacing the road from Mombasa Road. Now remaining units are selling at 12.5M. Thats a 25.5% return in less than a year. Watch that space. http://www.athiview.com/
Other off-plans known? Maybe we should start a thread
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,455
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Omena wrote:A mortgage is not intended to be taken to it's full term, and I am sure if you look at past stats, it will show most mortgages are completed in between 5-7 years.
The essence of a mortgage in the Kenyan setup in my view is to secure the house - which is usually very fast appreciating, as you source/wait for wind fall gains to complete the payments. Mortgage is to shikilia, so you lock the house price. Incomes, like lifestyle generally go up over time and windfall gains are also an economics fact.
The mathematics of NPV, IRR, PBP etc cannot be logically computed with accuracy in our peculiar environment. My advice would be to take a mortgage and hassle to pay as quick as you can, over time you will find you are wealthier, than if you panicked and listened to the likes of @maich
He he he!!! You are paying 97,000/= a month for 20 years for a loan of 6.7million and you are telling people to accelerate to what??? Talk about theory vs reality!! And if you can set aside more than 97,000/= you are supposed to be creating wealth for yourself not ending up with a fourth floor flat which is what you'll get with 6.7million in this market! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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@MB, you have taken a hard stand on this but 1.Dont you think the Kshs. 6.7m house/apartment/flat would have appreciated after 2-3 years. 2. What i know practically most people do is you take the 20 year mortgage but when you get a windfall e.g. bonus of 800k, you eat 200k and use 600k to repay the principal (channeling a good percentage towards loan repayment) which drastically reduces the principal repayement and therefore saves you on interest payment in the long run. 3. It also helps many poeple who are not disciplined in money matters commit thier earnings into a more viable project. e.g when you get a salary increment then you adjust the 97k monthly repayment to like 105k in year 1 then 120k in year 2. 4. Using 2 & 3 above, you can reduce drastically the 20 years to less than 7 years and even you are a guy of madeals to less than 3 years. We all know that idle money gets wasteful but with commitments gets useful! However much you castigate it it has worked for many people. What do you say of this guy who took a 4m mortgage loan in 2002 and bought half an acre plot in Karen touching the southern by-pass route. Recent valuation is 18m whereas through fast tracking he paid HFCK only 3.2m. I have seen mortgage work provided you are disciplined and know what you are doing or vice versa. Meanwhile there are others who have been auctioned and taken to the cleaners! Mortgage has worked for me and i am happy and i cannot fully castigate it! In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2010 Posts: 2,220 Location: Sundowner,Amboseli
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Angelica _ann wrote:@MB, you have taken a hard stand on this but 1.Dont you think the Kshs. 6.7m house/apartment/flat would have appreciated after 2-3 years.
2. What i know practically most people do is you take the 20 year mortgage but when you get a windfall e.g. bonus of 800k, you eat 200k and use 600k to repay the principal (channeling a good percentage towards loan repayment) which drastically reduces the principal repayement and therefore saves you on interest payment in the long run.
3. It also helps many poeple who are not disciplined in money matters commit thier earnings into a more viable project. e.g when you get a salary increment then you adjust the 97k monthly repayment to like 105k in year 1 then 120k in year 2.
4. Using 2 & 3 above, you can reduce drastically the 20 years to less than 7 years and even you are a guy of madeals to less than 3 years.
We all know that idle money gets wasteful but with commitments gets useful!
However much you castigate it it has worked for many people.
What do you say of this guy who took a 4m mortgage loan in 2002 and bought half an acre plot in Karen touching the southern by-pass route. Recent valuation is 18m whereas through fast tracking he paid HFCK only 3.2m.
I have seen mortgage work provided you are disciplined and know what you are doing or vice versa.
Meanwhile there are others who have been auctioned and taken to the cleaners!
Mortgage has worked for me and i am happy and i cannot fully castigate it! That was the price of half an acre in 2007 and not in 2002. In 2002, KES.4M would have bought him/her 2 acres in Karen. @SufficientlyP
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/16/2014 Posts: 1,420 Location: Bohemian Grove
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MaichBlack wrote:Omena wrote:A mortgage is not intended to be taken to it's full term, and I am sure if you look at past stats, it will show most mortgages are completed in between 5-7 years.
The essence of a mortgage in the Kenyan setup in my view is to secure the house - which is usually very fast appreciating, as you source/wait for wind fall gains to complete the payments. Mortgage is to shikilia, so you lock the house price. Incomes, like lifestyle generally go up over time and windfall gains are also an economics fact.
The mathematics of NPV, IRR, PBP etc cannot be logically computed with accuracy in our peculiar environment. My advice would be to take a mortgage and hassle to pay as quick as you can, over time you will find you are wealthier, than if you panicked and listened to the likes of @maich
He he he!!! You are paying 97,000/= a month for 20 years for a loan of 6.7million and you are telling people to accelerate to what??? Talk about theory vs reality!! And if you can set aside more than 97,000/= you are supposed to be creating wealth for yourself not ending up with a fourth floor flat which is what you'll get with 6.7million in this market! only in countries like US do I find guys with a good cashflow or even mil/billionaires taking a mortgage coz interest rates are super low.If you can afford an extra 100k/month I really don't see the need.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,455
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whiteowl wrote:MaichBlack wrote:Omena wrote:A mortgage is not intended to be taken to it's full term, and I am sure if you look at past stats, it will show most mortgages are completed in between 5-7 years.
The essence of a mortgage in the Kenyan setup in my view is to secure the house - which is usually very fast appreciating, as you source/wait for wind fall gains to complete the payments. Mortgage is to shikilia, so you lock the house price. Incomes, like lifestyle generally go up over time and windfall gains are also an economics fact.
The mathematics of NPV, IRR, PBP etc cannot be logically computed with accuracy in our peculiar environment. My advice would be to take a mortgage and hassle to pay as quick as you can, over time you will find you are wealthier, than if you panicked and listened to the likes of @maich
He he he!!! You are paying 97,000/= a month for 20 years for a loan of 6.7million and you are telling people to accelerate to what??? Talk about theory vs reality!! And if you can set aside more than 97,000/= you are supposed to be creating wealth for yourself not ending up with a fourth floor flat which is what you'll get with 6.7million in this market! only in countries like US do I find guys with a good cashflow or even mil/billionaires taking a mortgage coz interest rates are super low.If you can afford an extra 100k/month I really don't see the need. Exactly!!! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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