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Executive House Estate Demolition
alma
#81 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2014 5:13:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Ash Ock wrote:
a4architect.com wrote:
just as we discussed, the kevevapi has agreed to sell the land to the buyers, hence a win win for all. Everyone goes home happy.
http://www.businessdaily...1/-/kwj2ey/-/index.html

This is what should have happened from the word go, an amicable arbitration process.


That's a win?

From what I gathered in the linked article, the only winners are the three companies who were involved in the initial scam namely Sharjah Trading Co. Ltd, Rielco Co. Ltd and Samu Ltd.

The current bonafide buyers have to buy the land again at current market prices!


They'd better start saving up. How much is a 40x80 in South B?
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
a4architect.com
#82 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2014 5:14:12 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@ashcok, comparing demolition of multimillion kes 25m houses, adding land cost to this is more of a win for the house owners since land cost is negligible compared to total cost of a complete house.

The option of demolition was too harsh for the house owners.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
Ash Ock
#83 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2014 5:22:04 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2010
Posts: 495
Location: Nairobi
a4architect.com wrote:
@ashcok, comparing demolition of multimillion kes 25m houses, adding land cost to this is more of a win for the house owners since land cost is negligible compared to total cost of a complete house.

The option of demolition was too harsh for the house owners.


As opposed to making the original companies who were the initiators of the scam pay for the land now?

What did the current buyers do wrong to make them have to pay yet again for land they bought believing it was clean, after due diligence was done?

Seriously? That makes sense?
Sent from my Black Nokia 3310
mkenyan
#84 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2014 5:24:54 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,883
Ash Ock wrote:
a4architect.com wrote:
@ashcok, comparing demolition of multimillion kes 25m houses, adding land cost to this is more of a win for the house owners since land cost is negligible compared to total cost of a complete house.

The option of demolition was too harsh for the house owners.


As opposed to making the original companies who were the initiators of the scam pay for the land now?

What did the current buyers do wrong to make them have to pay yet again for land they bought believing it was clean, after due diligence was done?

Seriously? That makes sense?

it is a win in that now they don't have to lose all. under the demolition option, they were going to lose much more than they would lose now. though enough of them may not have enough money to buy back the land so expect vultures to zero in there for cheap houses.
Ash Ock
#85 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2014 5:27:17 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2010
Posts: 495
Location: Nairobi
mkenyan wrote:
Ash Ock wrote:
a4architect.com wrote:
@ashcok, comparing demolition of multimillion kes 25m houses, adding land cost to this is more of a win for the house owners since land cost is negligible compared to total cost of a complete house.

The option of demolition was too harsh for the house owners.


As opposed to making the original companies who were the initiators of the scam pay for the land now?

What did the current buyers do wrong to make them have to pay yet again for land they bought believing it was clean, after due diligence was done?

Seriously? That makes sense?

it is a win in that now they don't have to lose all. under the demolition option, they were going to lose much more than they would lose now. though enough of them may not have enough money to buy back the land so expect vultures to zero in there for cheap houses.


The point is that the current owners shouldn't have to loose or win anything at all.

The original scam artists are the one who should be on the firing line. They are very well known, for Pete's sake.
Sent from my Black Nokia 3310
a4architect.com
#86 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2014 5:28:06 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@ash ock, if am given the option to buy the land or to have my house demolished, i would grab the land buy option very fast and deal with other issues with the original companies later.

I beleive the complexities of tracking these companies who have had over 20 years to plan on hiding would be asking for too much. The current CS agric has put his foot forward in that he wants money now as in today, from whichever source , or he brings down the houses, which he has even started.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
alma
#87 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2014 5:29:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Ash Ock wrote:
mkenyan wrote:
Ash Ock wrote:
a4architect.com wrote:
@ashcok, comparing demolition of multimillion kes 25m houses, adding land cost to this is more of a win for the house owners since land cost is negligible compared to total cost of a complete house.

The option of demolition was too harsh for the house owners.


As opposed to making the original companies who were the initiators of the scam pay for the land now?

What did the current buyers do wrong to make them have to pay yet again for land they bought believing it was clean, after due diligence was done?

Seriously? That makes sense?

it is a win in that now they don't have to lose all. under the demolition option, they were going to lose much more than they would lose now. though enough of them may not have enough money to buy back the land so expect vultures to zero in there for cheap houses.


The point is that the current owners shouldn't have to loose or win anything at all.

The original scam artists are the one who should be on the firing line. They are very well known, for Pete's sake.


Ash Ock in life, you fight for your rights. They are not given to you.

if those owners keep quiet, then they will pay double. That's their choice.

Sonko is not going to come to help you offset that ka 40x80. He was only sent there to make the gov't look good. And it worked.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
mkenyan
#88 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2014 5:29:45 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,883
a4architect.com wrote:
@mkenyan,
Mau land is useful to all of us for rain,air etc.
Kevevapi land at the point of alienation was just idle. This makes the difference on the two.

Govt allocates land to private citizens eg 1,400 acre donholm land all the way from muthurwa to donholm or karen land thousands of acres aloocated to Karen blixen.

When this land becomes property of private citizens, and these citizens decide to subdivide the land further, city council comes in and says x% of the land is to be set aside for public utility eg schools, police station etc. Karen police station and karen dispensary land were once paet of Karen Blixen's private land.

Most of the schools in donholm along jogoo road were once porperty of donholm rpivate farm.

These % set aside are what is usually seen in the media as GRABBED land. This land has been set aside for a particular use eg land set aside for school to serve donholm. If @mkenyan grabs the land and builds flats, the people living in the area have no recourse other than demolishing the flats to build a school. If karen blixen gave out land for a hospital then @mkenyan comes to build flats, then the flats should be brought down as in the recent case below in karen.

....

On the intended use of kevevapi, am basing my arguments on what i see in the media. I cant know of what kevevapi wants to do with the land. I can only guess. kevevapi are licenced to deal with agric use so logically, i can only assume they will want to demolish the houses and continue with agric use. From this usage, unless CS agric divulges to us on what he intends to reuse the land for, i cant tell.

so you are disowning the argument that it matters if the land was initially private land but was set aside for public use (public utility land) or belonged to the government (public land)? that i understood to be your public utility land versus public land theory on demolition.
Ash Ock
#89 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2014 5:33:45 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2010
Posts: 495
Location: Nairobi
a4architect.com wrote:
@ash ock, if am given the option to buy the land or to have my house demolished, i would grab the land buy option very fast and deal with other issues with the original companies later.

I beleive the complexities of tracking these companies who have had over 20 years to plan on hiding would be asking for too much. The current CS agric has put his foot forward in that he wants money now as in today, from whichever source , or he brings down the houses, which he has even started.


Of course the CS took this step; it's the easier one and the story ends right there.

Until the next one.

And so on.

Ad infinitum.
Sent from my Black Nokia 3310
mkenyan
#90 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2014 5:34:07 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,883
a4architect.com wrote:
@ash ock, if am given the option to buy the land or to have my house demolished, i would grab the land buy option very fast and deal with other issues with the original companies later.

I beleive the complexities of tracking these companies who have had over 20 years to plan on hiding would be asking for too much. The current CS agric has put his foot forward in that he wants money now as in today, from whichever source , or he brings down the houses, which he has even started.

i agree. best option is pay for it now and go after the companies/individuals who sold the land. whatever you get is a bonus. coz am very sure the companies are long wound up (or can be wound up now that they would be facing millions in damages) and the individuals long gone ( or would apply for bankruptcy or hightail it from kenya) and no meaningful money would be recovered from them. well, unless nssf is found liable in which case the workers...
a4architect.com
#91 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2014 5:36:17 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@mkenyan, online arguments are just that, arguments,and not cast in stone, and without solid factual basis since we can only argue from what we read in the media. Real hard realities of life, court arguments/court orders etc are a different issue altogether as has currently transpired so whether the commissioner of lands was right, wrong,whether the initial companies are available to compensate etc becomes hypotheses and in the end, whatever comes out as a win win should take over. Of course the house buyers can continue with whichever lines of argument they might have, but clearly, they are on the loosing end since its them to loose if ministry of agric continues demolitions like it had started.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
alma
#92 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2014 5:40:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
mkenyan wrote:
a4architect.com wrote:
@ash ock, if am given the option to buy the land or to have my house demolished, i would grab the land buy option very fast and deal with other issues with the original companies later.

I beleive the complexities of tracking these companies who have had over 20 years to plan on hiding would be asking for too much. The current CS agric has put his foot forward in that he wants money now as in today, from whichever source , or he brings down the houses, which he has even started.

i agree. best option is pay for it now and go after the companies/individuals who sold the land. whatever you get is a bonus. coz am very sure the companies are long wound up (or can be wound up now that they would be facing millions in damages) and the individuals long gone ( or would apply for bankruptcy or hightail it from kenya) and no meaningful money would be recovered from them. well, unless nssf is found liable in which case the workers...


mkenyan assuming I'm a 4 generation buyer, would I be right just to sue the fellow above me. ie the 3rd generation buyer?

Or do I have to sue everyone from the commissioner of lands?

He did not sell me the property. Mr. Mburu sold it to me. Can I sue just Mr. Mburu?

I don't know why Kenyans fear suing.

What is better, taking you to court for 20 years and recovering my money or keeping quiet and paying for a piece of land I've bought twice for 20 yrs? Mimi I'd sue you. Have no doubt about that. Suing has been proven to give higher returns than the stock market.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
mkenyan
#93 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:16:38 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,883
alma wrote:
mkenyan wrote:
a4architect.com wrote:
@ash ock, if am given the option to buy the land or to have my house demolished, i would grab the land buy option very fast and deal with other issues with the original companies later.

I beleive the complexities of tracking these companies who have had over 20 years to plan on hiding would be asking for too much. The current CS agric has put his foot forward in that he wants money now as in today, from whichever source , or he brings down the houses, which he has even started.

i agree. best option is pay for it now and go after the companies/individuals who sold the land. whatever you get is a bonus. coz am very sure the companies are long wound up (or can be wound up now that they would be facing millions in damages) and the individuals long gone ( or would apply for bankruptcy or hightail it from kenya) and no meaningful money would be recovered from them. well, unless nssf is found liable in which case the workers...


mkenyan assuming I'm a 4 generation buyer, would I be right just to sue the fellow above me. ie the 3rd generation buyer?

Or do I have to sue everyone from the commissioner of lands?

He did not sell me the property. Mr. Mburu sold it to me. Can I sue just Mr. Mburu?

I don't know why Kenyans fear suing.

What is better, taking you to court for 20 years and recovering my money or keeping quiet and paying for a piece of land I've bought twice for 20 yrs? Mimi I'd sue you. Have no doubt about that. Suing has been proven to give higher returns than the stock market.

if it was me i would sue mr. mburu then he would look for however sold him the property and rope him in if he wishes. i won't bother with anyone else apart from mr. mburu. in the meantime as i sue him i would pay the government its due for the land, accept and move on. so when i finally get mr. mburu to pay me at least i get my money back and i still have my house.
webish
#94 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:53:43 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 671
Location: Nairobi
Some photos of the place today....

http://bit.ly/1pgk10w

Life is joy, death is peace, but the transition is very difficult.
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