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5 Monkey's experiment!!
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:
Preference implies a decision... choice so to speak. In Kenya people don't prefer to eat rabbits rather than mongooses or eat goats rather than hyenas. They prefer to eat goat meat during the weekends rather than beef. they prefer chicken rather than rabbit. they prefer tea rather than coffee. Preference is always a matter of choice within a certain range of 'OK' substances. If I have been getting nourishment from eating animal protein, what good thing, or improvement will I obtain from now eating vulture meat rather than chicken meat? Or mongoose instead of rabbit? What incentive is there for me to decide to diversify outside of your so-called range of ok substances? Look again at your statement 'Preference is always a matter of choice within a certain range of 'OK' substances'. It is not wholly true. Preference is always a matter of choice. Fullstop. It is still preference in diversification or outside the range to use your terms. It is still not right to insist all people do is because they found people doing it that way. Maybe for a few but certainly not blanket all. who do you know that eats vulture? who do you that has tasted vulture? No one. so no one you know 'prefers' to eat chicken as opposed to vulture or flamingo - right? but rather eating of vulture is a silent taboo in our society just as eating amphibians like toads is. i.e. we found people not eating vultures and toads and we went with the flow... it's quite possible that some random guy long ago picked a toad and ate it - then died! the whole village banned the eating of toads and the practice has been with us since then - don't you agree? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:
Preference implies a decision... choice so to speak. In Kenya people don't prefer to eat rabbits rather than mongooses or eat goats rather than hyenas. They prefer to eat goat meat during the weekends rather than beef. they prefer chicken rather than rabbit. they prefer tea rather than coffee. Preference is always a matter of choice within a certain range of 'OK' substances. If I have been getting nourishment from eating animal protein, what good thing, or improvement will I obtain from now eating vulture meat rather than chicken meat? Or mongoose instead of rabbit? What incentive is there for me to decide to diversify outside of your so-called range of ok substances? Look again at your statement 'Preference is always a matter of choice within a certain range of 'OK' substances'. It is not wholly true. Preference is always a matter of choice. Fullstop. It is still preference in diversification or outside the range to use your terms. It is still not right to insist all people do is because they found people doing it that way. Maybe for a few but certainly not blanket all. who do you know that eats vulture? who do you that has tasted vulture? No one. so no one you know 'prefers' to eat chicken as opposed to vulture or flamingo - right? but rather eating of vulture is a silent taboo in our society just as eating amphibians like toads is. i.e. we found people not eating vultures and toads and we went with the flow... it's quite possible that some random guy long ago picked a toad and ate it - then died! the whole village banned the eating of toads and the practice has been with us since then - don't you agree? @Muriel - ^this. Choice or the illusion of choice present in preference are both irrelevant before and established by truth whether you prefer it or not.So whether it's something lethal like the above example or something considered simple,truth will meet you where your focus is.It's like a choice on how to learn the same lesson.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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@tycho look at my post #27 again first. I have raised partinent points there, especially on last item 3. As soon as I return from my shugulis, I'll analyze your last post above.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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symbols wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:
Preference implies a decision... choice so to speak. In Kenya people don't prefer to eat rabbits rather than mongooses or eat goats rather than hyenas. They prefer to eat goat meat during the weekends rather than beef. they prefer chicken rather than rabbit. they prefer tea rather than coffee. Preference is always a matter of choice within a certain range of 'OK' substances. If I have been getting nourishment from eating animal protein, what good thing, or improvement will I obtain from now eating vulture meat rather than chicken meat? Or mongoose instead of rabbit? What incentive is there for me to decide to diversify outside of your so-called range of ok substances? Look again at your statement 'Preference is always a matter of choice within a certain range of 'OK' substances'. It is not wholly true. Preference is always a matter of choice. Fullstop. It is still preference in diversification or outside the range to use your terms. It is still not right to insist all people do is because they found people doing it that way. Maybe for a few but certainly not blanket all. who do you know that eats vulture? who do you that has tasted vulture? No one. so no one you know 'prefers' to eat chicken as opposed to vulture or flamingo - right? but rather eating of vulture is a silent taboo in our society just as eating amphibians like toads is. i.e. we found people not eating vultures and toads and we went with the flow... it's quite possible that some random guy long ago picked a toad and ate it - then died! the whole village banned the eating of toads and the practice has been with us since then - don't you agree? @Muriel - ^this. Choice or the illusion of choice present in preference are both irrelevant before and established by truth whether you prefer it or not.So whether it's something lethal like the above example or something considered simple,truth will meet you where your focus is.It's like a choice on how to learn the same lesson. Yes, I totally agree the death of one could influence the village not to eat that thing. Yet it could also be they just have not experienced the sweetness of vulture over chicken after evaluating in their own individual ways several issues e.g. for me it would be matters of reach and pursuit. I am one of them and I ask, why would I spend energy and time chasing vulture when I can chase -and catch - chicken? At least give me some credit for making work and life easier. Some thought went into my decision. Not every circumstance can be attributed to herd mentality, unless you are discussing my ability to decide. lol.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:@tycho look at my post #27 again first. I have raised partinent points there, especially on last item 3. As soon as I return from my shugulis, I'll analyze your last post above. I have read this item, and I wish to clarify that my formal stand is, 'the recognition and naming of things, implies creation. And the Creator doesn't need to be created, and cannot be an other than himself. It's a matter of Self instruction through time.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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Kihara joni wrote:Mukiri wrote:Especially how and what we eat. True on this, I had some friends over and decided to make them a meal so I made beans and added some full potatoes and served them they looked at me and asked why nawapatia kitoweo tupu because to us that meal should either come with ugali, rice or spaghetti, another thing how many times a week does a kenyan eat ugali? at mum's it's about 5 times the other 2 (weekend) are Githeri . My friend, you invite me to your place to eat maharagwe? Wacha ikae! Mwahaume ni effort, even try and add a ka-fish if you're that concerned about my health. Now, I don't think this thread was about food. The bananas seemed to have thrown people off.  It looks like us primates are creatures of habit. Here's another similar story: Grandma's Cooking SecretThe new Jewish bride is making her first big dinner for her husband and tries her hand at her mother's brisket recipe, cutting off the ends of the roast the way her mother always did. Hubby thinks the meat is delicious, but says, "Why do you cut off the ends -- that's the best part!" She answers, "That's the way my mother always made it."
The next week, they go to the old bubbie's house, and she prepares the famous brisket recipe, again cutting off the ends. The young bride is sure she must be missing some vital information, so she askes her grandma why she cut off the ends. Grandma says, "Dahlink, that's the only way it will fit in the pan!"
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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Muriel wrote:symbols wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:
Preference implies a decision... choice so to speak. In Kenya people don't prefer to eat rabbits rather than mongooses or eat goats rather than hyenas. They prefer to eat goat meat during the weekends rather than beef. they prefer chicken rather than rabbit. they prefer tea rather than coffee. Preference is always a matter of choice within a certain range of 'OK' substances. If I have been getting nourishment from eating animal protein, what good thing, or improvement will I obtain from now eating vulture meat rather than chicken meat? Or mongoose instead of rabbit? What incentive is there for me to decide to diversify outside of your so-called range of ok substances? Look again at your statement 'Preference is always a matter of choice within a certain range of 'OK' substances'. It is not wholly true. Preference is always a matter of choice. Fullstop. It is still preference in diversification or outside the range to use your terms. It is still not right to insist all people do is because they found people doing it that way. Maybe for a few but certainly not blanket all. who do you know that eats vulture? who do you that has tasted vulture? No one. so no one you know 'prefers' to eat chicken as opposed to vulture or flamingo - right? but rather eating of vulture is a silent taboo in our society just as eating amphibians like toads is. i.e. we found people not eating vultures and toads and we went with the flow... it's quite possible that some random guy long ago picked a toad and ate it - then died! the whole village banned the eating of toads and the practice has been with us since then - don't you agree? @Muriel - ^this. Choice or the illusion of choice present in preference are both irrelevant before and established by truth whether you prefer it or not.So whether it's something lethal like the above example or something considered simple,truth will meet you where your focus is.It's like a choice on how to learn the same lesson. Yes, I totally agree the death of one could influence the village not to eat that thing. Yet it could also be they just have not experienced the sweetness of vulture over chicken after evaluating in their own individual ways several issues e.g. for me it would be matters of reach and pursuit. I am one of them and I ask, why would I spend energy and time chasing vulture when I can chase -and catch - chicken? At least give me some credit for making work and life easier. Some thought went into my decision. Not every circumstance can be attributed to herd mentality, unless you are discussing my ability to decide. lol. No.Just using the discussion you're having to explain how I see preference.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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tycho wrote:AlphDoti, let's consider the experimental case provided by @masukuma to help us reason together. A careful look at it reveals several things. Some of them are;
1. Design and communication do not necessarily produce 'obedience'. The experiment was designed by humans, but there was no explicit rule to be obeyed. In fact, there was no law.
2. Laws (can) emanate from 'non-designers'. The monkeys came up with the law against picking bananas on a(the) ladder. And hence though the monkeys were 'free to choose' what law or if any law at all, they 'designed' a law that exacted obedience. To the fifth generation.
3. Language is a higher form of communication. The monkeys communicated, but had no language. Symbolic system.
4. One doesn't require language to survive. The monkeys had no language, yet, they could get the outcomes they found pleausarable. Language is 'something else all together'.
5. 'Creation', necessarily follows 'self consciousness'. And self consciousness implies language. The monkeys had no religion of bananas or ladders. But the experimenters had at least, a belief system.
Hence, it is only necessary to have self consciousness to have a religion. 'God' isn't necessary for that. That is, 'God' is a result of self consciousness. And per force, is understood as 'originator' of self consciousness. This explains the existence of creation and evolutionary theories standing side by side.
There is still a leap there from not being necessary for religion to being a result of self consciousness. Nonetheless,interesting observations.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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the same experiment - NOW ON HUMANS...  There was a Steve Jobs quote that was profound on this matter Quote:When you grow up you tend to get told the world is the way it is and your life is just to live your life inside the world. Try not to bash into the walls too much. Try to have a nice family life, have fun, save a little money.
That’s a very limited life. Life can be much broader once you discover one simple fact, and that is – everything around you that you call life, was made up by people that were no smarter than you. And you can change it, you can influence it, you can build your own things that other people can use.
The minute that you understand that you can poke life and actually something will, you know if you push in, something will pop out the other side, that you can change it, you can mold it. That’s maybe the most important thing. It’s to shake off this erroneous notion that life is there and you’re just gonna live in it, versus embrace it, change it, improve it, make your mark upon it.
I think that’s very important and however you learn that, once you learn it, you’ll want to change life and make it better, cause it’s kind of messed up, in a lot of ways. Once you learn that, you’ll never be the same again. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/27/2010 Posts: 495 Location: Nairobi
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