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5 Monkey's experiment!!
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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Kihara joni wrote:Mukiri wrote:Especially how and what we eat. True on this, I had some friends over and decided to make them a meal so I made beans and added some full potatoes and served them they looked at me and asked why nawapatia kitoweo tupu because to us that meal should either come with ugali, rice or spaghetti, another thing how many times a week does a kenyan eat ugali? at mum's it's about 5 times the other 2 (weekend) are Githeri .  , sasa wewe unapikia watu kitoweo peke yake - you would need several plates to feel full.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,921
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nakujua wrote:Kihara joni wrote:Mukiri wrote:Especially how and what we eat. True on this, I had some friends over and decided to make them a meal so I made beans and added some full potatoes and served them they looked at me and asked why nawapatia kitoweo tupu because to us that meal should either come with ugali, rice or spaghetti, another thing how many times a week does a kenyan eat ugali? at mum's it's about 5 times the other 2 (weekend) are Githeri . , sasa wewe unapikia watu kitoweo peke yake - you would need several plates to feel full. Hapo bado kuna shida, pengine chapatis! In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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washiku wrote:Like we didnt lynch a former minister for advising we eat rats. Yet we are fine eating rabbits. Lol Lol. We also sea cockroaches too. Locally available material does not carry favor with most.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:Kihara joni wrote:Mukiri wrote:Especially how and what we eat. True on this, I had some friends over and decided to make them a meal so I made beans and added some full potatoes and served them they looked at me and asked why nawapatia kitoweo tupu because to us that meal should either come with ugali, rice or spaghetti, another thing how many times a week does a kenyan eat ugali? at mum's it's about 5 times the other 2 (weekend) are Githeri . I do not think that is what Mukiri meant. His is more to do with 'traditional' diets vs 'westernized' diets. Perhaps what we consider Kosher type foods fall into this category. A long time ago people may have eaten dirty pigs, snakes, monkeys, hyenas, dogs or even rats and died out of some disease. People then established a societal conditioning that eating pigs, reptiles, primates, canines and some rodents is 'sin' coz they are unclean animals. fast forward a couple of thousand years. If you ask a man on the Kenyan Streets - Do you eat Monkeys? He will look at you like you have insulted him, his wife and his mother!! he will exclaim -NO!! NO!! but when you ask - Why not? He will not give you a satisfactory answer based on his own experience..... has anyone here tasted monkey flesh? If your neighbour was caught cooking monkeys - what would the village do to him??? Laugh Laugh Laugh They would probably lynch him, especially if he has been a generous guy sharing his food. Anyway, that is a flimsy explanation. What would make one go chasing monkeys especially after he has discovered eating easier-to-get vegetation can fill his stomach? I think that it is the eating of vegetation that has been rained upon by westernization such that today anyone who eats e.g. masukuma regularly is considered 'rural' or 'poor'. And is stigmatized. @masukuma the part where you said a long time ago, there might be a possibility people went through a phase of trial and error in food and all other complex things we have today. I believe otherwise myself, and it is easy to prove. Evidence of this is:If you analyze the complexity of language, "primitive" people would not have developed linguistic complexities that we see today. In fact, if it were true that complexity grows with time, how come we don't use even a quarter of a language. I don't think there is anyone who knows half of my vernacular. That means, the less than half is adequate for survival, so how was it possible to develop the 100% in the first place? For what purpose if 50% is enough to communicate? And this applies to all human languages the world over are equally complex. My convictionThe first human was not ignorant creature. He didn't acquire knowledge gradually. He was not a pagan who came to know source of creation later. He was not a dumb creation who learned language out of his own evolutionary faculties. He didn't lead a life of beast and evolved civilization later. Rather he was provided by faculty of thought and speech, freedom of choice. Was taught to know creator from start. And was created in best of forms. Creator spoke to him, and he obeyed the designer or creator. Hhhmmmmm,,,,,,,, Preference?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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Muriel wrote:Kihara joni wrote:Mukiri wrote:Especially how and what we eat. True on this, I had some friends over and decided to make them a meal so I made beans and added some full potatoes and served them they looked at me and asked why nawapatia kitoweo tupu because to us that meal should either come with ugali, rice or spaghetti, another thing how many times a week does a kenyan eat ugali? at mum's it's about 5 times the other 2 (weekend) are Githeri . I do not think that is what Mukiri meant. His is more to do with 'traditional' diets vs 'westernized' diets. @Muriel, that is one way of looking at it, but @Kihara jioni is right by me. Food combinations are very important, you'd get to learn this when you look at what enzymes the body produces to digest what, and the mapambano that happens when one eats every food group at once. That and the fact that there are bad carbs. Beans are good carbs BTW. Why one would want to eat Ugali and Githeri baffles me. With the rife aflotoxins, GMO maize (sijui drought, pest, herb resistant etc) Look at the rice from the farms(brown) and that we buy(white) and ask what changed the color? Spaghetti is processed gluten! There is a school of thought that sites agriculture as the fall of mankind. We were made meat eaters, supplementing that with fruits, berries, nuts etc. Na sio Nyama fry!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:Kihara joni wrote:Mukiri wrote:Especially how and what we eat. True on this, I had some friends over and decided to make them a meal so I made beans and added some full potatoes and served them they looked at me and asked why nawapatia kitoweo tupu because to us that meal should either come with ugali, rice or spaghetti, another thing how many times a week does a kenyan eat ugali? at mum's it's about 5 times the other 2 (weekend) are Githeri . I do not think that is what Mukiri meant. His is more to do with 'traditional' diets vs 'westernized' diets. Perhaps what we consider Kosher type foods fall into this category. A long time ago people may have eaten dirty pigs, snakes, monkeys, hyenas, dogs or even rats and died out of some disease. People then established a societal conditioning that eating pigs, reptiles, primates, canines and some rodents is 'sin' coz they are unclean animals. fast forward a couple of thousand years. If you ask a man on the Kenyan Streets - Do you eat Monkeys? He will look at you like you have insulted him, his wife and his mother!! he will exclaim -NO!! NO!! but when you ask - Why not? He will not give you a satisfactory answer based on his own experience..... has anyone here tasted monkey flesh? If your neighbour was caught cooking monkeys - what would the village do to him??? Laugh Laugh Laugh They would probably lynch him, especially if he has been a generous guy sharing his food. Anyway, that is a flimsy explanation. What would make one go chasing monkeys especially after he has discovered eating easier-to-get vegetation can fill his stomach? I think that it is the eating of vegetation that has been rained upon by westernization such that today anyone who eats e.g. masukuma regularly is considered 'rural' or 'poor'. And is stigmatized. @masukuma the part where you said a long time ago, there might be a possibility people went through a phase of trial and error in food and all other complex things we have today. I believe otherwise myself, and it is easy to prove. Evidence of this is:If you analyze the complexity of language, "primitive" people would not have developed linguistic complexities that we see today. In fact, if it were true that complexity grows with time, how come we don't use even a quarter of a language. I don't think there is anyone who knows half of my vernacular. That means, the less than half is adequate for survival, so how was it possible to develop the 100% in the first place? For what purpose if 50% is enough to communicate? And this applies to all human languages the world over are equally complex. My convictionThe first human was not ignorant creature. He didn't acquire knowledge gradually. He was not a pagan who came to know source of creation later. He was not a dumb creation who learned language out of his own evolutionary faculties. He didn't lead a life of beast and evolved civilization later. Rather he was provided by faculty of thought and speech, freedom of choice. Was taught to know creator from start. And was created in best of forms. Creator spoke to him, and he obeyed the designer or creator. The linguistic evidence is far from being credible and true @AlphDoti. Why? 1. Not using a quarter of a language doesn't exclude more extensive use of another language. 2. Single words represent concepts hence it's difficult to know words not used. 3. You have not given sufficient reason for creation. But neither do I support the idea that Man relied on trial and error only.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Perhaps what we consider Kosher type foods fall into this category. A long time ago people may have eaten dirty pigs, snakes, monkeys, hyenas, dogs or even rats and died out of some disease. People then established a societal conditioning that eating pigs, reptiles, primates, canines and some rodents is 'sin' coz they are unclean animals. fast forward a couple of thousand years. If you ask a man on the Kenyan Streets - Do you eat Monkeys? He will look at you like you have insulted him, his wife and his mother!! he will exclaim -NO!! NO!! but when you ask - Why not? He will not give you a satisfactory answer based on his own experience..... has anyone here tasted monkey flesh? If your neighbour was caught cooking monkeys - what would the village do to him??? Laugh Laugh Laugh They would probably lynch him, especially if he has been a generous guy sharing his food. Anyway, that is a flimsy explanation. What would make one go chasing monkeys especially after he has discovered eating easier-to-get vegetation can fill his stomach? I think that it is the eating of vegetation that has been rained upon by westernization such that today anyone who eats e.g. masukuma regularly is considered 'rural' or 'poor'. And is stigmatized. @masukuma the part where you said a long time ago, there might be a possibility people went through a phase of trial and error in food and all other complex things we have today. I believe otherwise myself, and it is easy to prove. Evidence of this is:If you analyze the complexity of language, "primitive" people would not have developed linguistic complexities that we see today. In fact, if it were true that complexity grows with time, how come we don't use even a quarter of a language. I don't think there is anyone who knows half of my vernacular. That means, the less than half is adequate for survival, so how was it possible to develop the 100% in the first place? For what purpose if 50% is enough to communicate? And this applies to all human languages the world over are equally complex. My convictionThe first human was not ignorant creature. He didn't acquire knowledge gradually. He was not a pagan who came to know source of creation later. He was not a dumb creation who learned language out of his own evolutionary faculties. He didn't lead a life of beast and evolved civilization later. Rather he was provided by faculty of thought and speech, freedom of choice. Was taught to know creator from start. And was created in best of forms. Creator spoke to him, and he obeyed the designer or creator. The linguistic evidence is far from being credible and true @AlphDoti. Why? 1. Not using a quarter of a language doesn't exclude more extensive use of another language. 2. Single words represent concepts hence it's difficult to know words not used. 3. You have not given sufficient reason for creation. But neither do I support the idea that Man relied on trial and error only. So if that man did not rely on trial and error, then it means it learnt or taught. So w ho would teach man? We can assume that this would be the designer, the architecture. Now for the designer to teach this man, requires that He addressed the man. He would address the man about obedience and the responsibility for any action. That means a means of feedback was also provided. A way to the designer. < @tycho 1. Not using a 1/4 of a language doesn't mean same for another language.> It only demonstrate that on average words used is generally less than the total language vocabulary. It strongly suggest that if words were being developed with time, how likely would words if the fraction was adequate to communicate. < @tycho 2. Single words represent concepts hence it's difficult to know words not used.> Exactly, if it is difficult to know which words are used from the pool, that suggests it would have been more difficult to come up with all those words from scratch. WHich suggests, they were taught, from a superior source. < @tycho 3. You have not given sufficient reason for creation.> There are more things to reflect on: heaven & earth, day & night, ships that sail, rain from up to wet soil, kinds of beasts, winds & clouds, sun & its rays, moon & its light,
phases of the moon to calculate time, gardens, rivers, and mountains that stabilizes the earth.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/17/2013 Posts: 4,693 Location: Earth
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Angelica _ann wrote:nakujua wrote:Kihara joni wrote:Mukiri wrote:Especially how and what we eat. True on this, I had some friends over and decided to make them a meal so I made beans and added some full potatoes and served them they looked at me and asked why nawapatia kitoweo tupu because to us that meal should either come with ugali, rice or spaghetti, another thing how many times a week does a kenyan eat ugali? at mum's it's about 5 times the other 2 (weekend) are Githeri . , sasa wewe unapikia watu kitoweo peke yake - you would need several plates to feel full. Hapo bado kuna shida, pengine chapatis! lmao @ kitoweo. can imagine them waiting eargely for you to bring some starch,you walking back to the kitchen and coming back empty and the looks of 'kitoweo sikitapoa jamani,hurry up '. Do not attempt such a stunt in shags.You will face a council of elders to explain why you served guests kitoweo peke yake.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:Kihara joni wrote:Mukiri wrote:Especially how and what we eat. True on this, I had some friends over and decided to make them a meal so I made beans and added some full potatoes and served them they looked at me and asked why nawapatia kitoweo tupu because to us that meal should either come with ugali, rice or spaghetti, another thing how many times a week does a kenyan eat ugali? at mum's it's about 5 times the other 2 (weekend) are Githeri . I do not think that is what Mukiri meant. His is more to do with 'traditional' diets vs 'westernized' diets. Perhaps what we consider Kosher type foods fall into this category. A long time ago people may have eaten dirty pigs, snakes, monkeys, hyenas, dogs or even rats and died out of some disease. People then established a societal conditioning that eating pigs, reptiles, primates, canines and some rodents is 'sin' coz they are unclean animals. fast forward a couple of thousand years. If you ask a man on the Kenyan Streets - Do you eat Monkeys? He will look at you like you have insulted him, his wife and his mother!! he will exclaim -NO!! NO!! but when you ask - Why not? He will not give you a satisfactory answer based on his own experience..... has anyone here tasted monkey flesh? If your neighbour was caught cooking monkeys - what would the village do to him??? Laugh Laugh Laugh They would probably lynch him, especially if he has been a generous guy sharing his food. Anyway, that is a flimsy explanation. What would make one go chasing monkeys especially after he has discovered eating easier-to-get vegetation can fill his stomach?I think that it is the eating of vegetation that has been rained upon by westernization such that today anyone who eats e.g. masukuma regularly is considered 'rural' or 'poor'. And is stigmatized. exactly my point - you don't see the reason!! you are a 5..6 generation person who found people doing things in a certain way. who knows? maybe 'le singe' is tasty!!! for crying out loud - people are eating bats in west africa! hapa cameroon and congo just west of Uganda watu wanararua 'le singe' mbaya! Kwani hawana 'vegetation'? I always have these thoughts when driving to town from Rongai when I see baboons just walking around sometimes terrorising foot travellers.... what if these things would be food? hmm? then I drive on!! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:Kihara joni wrote:Mukiri wrote:Especially how and what we eat. True on this, I had some friends over and decided to make them a meal so I made beans and added some full potatoes and served them they looked at me and asked why nawapatia kitoweo tupu because to us that meal should either come with ugali, rice or spaghetti, another thing how many times a week does a kenyan eat ugali? at mum's it's about 5 times the other 2 (weekend) are Githeri . I do not think that is what Mukiri meant. His is more to do with 'traditional' diets vs 'westernized' diets. Perhaps what we consider Kosher type foods fall into this category. A long time ago people may have eaten dirty pigs, snakes, monkeys, hyenas, dogs or even rats and died out of some disease. People then established a societal conditioning that eating pigs, reptiles, primates, canines and some rodents is 'sin' coz they are unclean animals. fast forward a couple of thousand years. If you ask a man on the Kenyan Streets - Do you eat Monkeys? He will look at you like you have insulted him, his wife and his mother!! he will exclaim -NO!! NO!! but when you ask - Why not? He will not give you a satisfactory answer based on his own experience..... has anyone here tasted monkey flesh? If your neighbour was caught cooking monkeys - what would the village do to him??? Laugh Laugh Laugh They would probably lynch him, especially if he has been a generous guy sharing his food. Anyway, that is a flimsy explanation. What would make one go chasing monkeys especially after he has discovered eating easier-to-get vegetation can fill his stomach? I think that it is the eating of vegetation that has been rained upon by westernization such that today anyone who eats e.g. masukuma regularly is considered 'rural' or 'poor'. And is stigmatized. @masukuma the part where you said a long time ago, there might be a possibility people went through a phase of trial and error in food and all other complex things we have today. I believe otherwise myself, and it is easy to prove. Evidence of this is:If you analyze the complexity of language, "primitive" people would not have developed linguistic complexities that we see today. In fact, if it were true that complexity grows with time, how come we don't use even a quarter of a language. I don't think there is anyone who knows half of my vernacular. That means, the less than half is adequate for survival, so how was it possible to develop the 100% in the first place? For what purpose if 50% is enough to communicate? And this applies to all human languages the world over are equally complex. My convictionThe first human was not ignorant creature. He didn't acquire knowledge gradually. He was not a pagan who came to know source of creation later. He was not a dumb creation who learned language out of his own evolutionary faculties. He didn't lead a life of beast and evolved civilization later. Rather he was provided by faculty of thought and speech, freedom of choice. Was taught to know creator from start. And was created in best of forms. Creator spoke to him, and he obeyed the designer or creator. Hhhmmmmm,,,,,,,, Preference? I like to think of it as truth's way of humbling everyone indiscriminately.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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symbols wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:Kihara joni wrote:Mukiri wrote:Especially how and what we eat. True on this, I had some friends over and decided to make them a meal so I made beans and added some full potatoes and served them they looked at me and asked why nawapatia kitoweo tupu because to us that meal should either come with ugali, rice or spaghetti, another thing how many times a week does a kenyan eat ugali? at mum's it's about 5 times the other 2 (weekend) are Githeri . I do not think that is what Mukiri meant. His is more to do with 'traditional' diets vs 'westernized' diets. Perhaps what we consider Kosher type foods fall into this category. A long time ago people may have eaten dirty pigs, snakes, monkeys, hyenas, dogs or even rats and died out of some disease. People then established a societal conditioning that eating pigs, reptiles, primates, canines and some rodents is 'sin' coz they are unclean animals. fast forward a couple of thousand years. If you ask a man on the Kenyan Streets - Do you eat Monkeys? He will look at you like you have insulted him, his wife and his mother!! he will exclaim -NO!! NO!! but when you ask - Why not? He will not give you a satisfactory answer based on his own experience..... has anyone here tasted monkey flesh? If your neighbour was caught cooking monkeys - what would the village do to him??? Laugh Laugh Laugh They would probably lynch him, especially if he has been a generous guy sharing his food. Anyway, that is a flimsy explanation. What would make one go chasing monkeys especially after he has discovered eating easier-to-get vegetation can fill his stomach? I think that it is the eating of vegetation that has been rained upon by westernization such that today anyone who eats e.g. masukuma regularly is considered 'rural' or 'poor'. And is stigmatized. @masukuma the part where you said a long time ago, there might be a possibility people went through a phase of trial and error in food and all other complex things we have today. I believe otherwise myself, and it is easy to prove. Evidence of this is:If you analyze the complexity of language, "primitive" people would not have developed linguistic complexities that we see today. In fact, if it were true that complexity grows with time, how come we don't use even a quarter of a language. I don't think there is anyone who knows half of my vernacular. That means, the less than half is adequate for survival, so how was it possible to develop the 100% in the first place? For what purpose if 50% is enough to communicate? And this applies to all human languages the world over are equally complex. My convictionThe first human was not ignorant creature. He didn't acquire knowledge gradually. He was not a pagan who came to know source of creation later. He was not a dumb creation who learned language out of his own evolutionary faculties. He didn't lead a life of beast and evolved civilization later. Rather he was provided by faculty of thought and speech, freedom of choice. Was taught to know creator from start. And was created in best of forms. Creator spoke to him, and he obeyed the designer or creator. Hhhmmmmm,,,,,,,, Preference? I like to think of it as truth's way of humbling everyone indiscriminately. Yeah. Truth has a way of humbling everyone indiscriminately. But what is this you are thinking - the 'it' in the ',,,think of it ,,,'?
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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Mukiri wrote:Muriel wrote:Kihara joni wrote:Mukiri wrote:Especially how and what we eat. True on this, I had some friends over and decided to make them a meal so I made beans and added some full potatoes and served them they looked at me and asked why nawapatia kitoweo tupu because to us that meal should either come with ugali, rice or spaghetti, another thing how many times a week does a kenyan eat ugali? at mum's it's about 5 times the other 2 (weekend) are Githeri . I do not think that is what Mukiri meant. His is more to do with 'traditional' diets vs 'westernized' diets. @Muriel, that is one way of looking at it, but @Kihara jioni is right by me. Food combinations are very important, you'd get to learn this when you look at what enzymes the body produces to digest what, and the mapambano that happens when one eats every food group at once. That and the fact that there are bad carbs. Beans are good carbs BTW. Why one would want to eat Ugali and Githeri baffles me. With the rife aflotoxins, GMO maize (sijui drought, pest, herb resistant etc) Look at the rice from the farms(brown) and that we buy(white) and ask what changed the color? Spaghetti is processed gluten! There is a school of thought that sites agriculture as the fall of mankind. We were made meat eaters, supplementing that with fruits, berries, nuts etc. Na sio Nyama fry! Ah, yes, now I see.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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Muriel wrote:symbols wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:Kihara joni wrote:Mukiri wrote:Especially how and what we eat. True on this, I had some friends over and decided to make them a meal so I made beans and added some full potatoes and served them they looked at me and asked why nawapatia kitoweo tupu because to us that meal should either come with ugali, rice or spaghetti, another thing how many times a week does a kenyan eat ugali? at mum's it's about 5 times the other 2 (weekend) are Githeri . I do not think that is what Mukiri meant. His is more to do with 'traditional' diets vs 'westernized' diets. Perhaps what we consider Kosher type foods fall into this category. A long time ago people may have eaten dirty pigs, snakes, monkeys, hyenas, dogs or even rats and died out of some disease. People then established a societal conditioning that eating pigs, reptiles, primates, canines and some rodents is 'sin' coz they are unclean animals. fast forward a couple of thousand years. If you ask a man on the Kenyan Streets - Do you eat Monkeys? He will look at you like you have insulted him, his wife and his mother!! he will exclaim -NO!! NO!! but when you ask - Why not? He will not give you a satisfactory answer based on his own experience..... has anyone here tasted monkey flesh? If your neighbour was caught cooking monkeys - what would the village do to him??? Laugh Laugh Laugh They would probably lynch him, especially if he has been a generous guy sharing his food. Anyway, that is a flimsy explanation. What would make one go chasing monkeys especially after he has discovered eating easier-to-get vegetation can fill his stomach? I think that it is the eating of vegetation that has been rained upon by westernization such that today anyone who eats e.g. masukuma regularly is considered 'rural' or 'poor'. And is stigmatized. @masukuma the part where you said a long time ago, there might be a possibility people went through a phase of trial and error in food and all other complex things we have today. I believe otherwise myself, and it is easy to prove. Evidence of this is:If you analyze the complexity of language, "primitive" people would not have developed linguistic complexities that we see today. In fact, if it were true that complexity grows with time, how come we don't use even a quarter of a language. I don't think there is anyone who knows half of my vernacular. That means, the less than half is adequate for survival, so how was it possible to develop the 100% in the first place? For what purpose if 50% is enough to communicate? And this applies to all human languages the world over are equally complex. My convictionThe first human was not ignorant creature. He didn't acquire knowledge gradually. He was not a pagan who came to know source of creation later. He was not a dumb creation who learned language out of his own evolutionary faculties. He didn't lead a life of beast and evolved civilization later. Rather he was provided by faculty of thought and speech, freedom of choice. Was taught to know creator from start. And was created in best of forms. Creator spoke to him, and he obeyed the designer or creator. Hhhmmmmm,,,,,,,, Preference? I like to think of it as truth's way of humbling everyone indiscriminately. Yeah. Truth has a way of humbling everyone indiscriminately. But what is this you are thinking - the 'it' in the ',,,think of it ,,,'? Preference.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:Kihara joni wrote:Mukiri wrote:Especially how and what we eat. True on this, I had some friends over and decided to make them a meal so I made beans and added some full potatoes and served them they looked at me and asked why nawapatia kitoweo tupu because to us that meal should either come with ugali, rice or spaghetti, another thing how many times a week does a kenyan eat ugali? at mum's it's about 5 times the other 2 (weekend) are Githeri . I do not think that is what Mukiri meant. His is more to do with 'traditional' diets vs 'westernized' diets. Perhaps what we consider Kosher type foods fall into this category. A long time ago people may have eaten dirty pigs, snakes, monkeys, hyenas, dogs or even rats and died out of some disease. People then established a societal conditioning that eating pigs, reptiles, primates, canines and some rodents is 'sin' coz they are unclean animals. fast forward a couple of thousand years. If you ask a man on the Kenyan Streets - Do you eat Monkeys? He will look at you like you have insulted him, his wife and his mother!! he will exclaim -NO!! NO!! but when you ask - Why not? He will not give you a satisfactory answer based on his own experience..... has anyone here tasted monkey flesh? If your neighbour was caught cooking monkeys - what would the village do to him??? Laugh Laugh Laugh They would probably lynch him, especially if he has been a generous guy sharing his food. Anyway, that is a flimsy explanation. What would make one go chasing monkeys especially after he has discovered eating easier-to-get vegetation can fill his stomach?I think that it is the eating of vegetation that has been rained upon by westernization such that today anyone who eats e.g. masukuma regularly is considered 'rural' or 'poor'. And is stigmatized. exactly my point - you don't see the reason!! you are a 5..6 generation person who found people doing things in a certain way. who knows? maybe 'le singe' is tasty!!! for crying out loud - people are eating bats in west africa! hapa cameroon and congo just west of Uganda watu wanararua 'le singe' mbaya! Kwani hawana 'vegetation'? I always have these thoughts when driving to town from Rongai when I see baboons just walking around sometimes terrorising foot travellers.... what if these things would be food? hmm? then I drive on!! Yeah you are right. I do not see the reason. Reason implies cognitive decision. But its not right of you to insist its only because I found people doing it a certain way. One can make a choice. Preference.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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symbols wrote:Muriel wrote:symbols wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:Kihara joni wrote:Mukiri wrote:Especially how and what we eat. True on this, I had some friends over and decided to make them a meal so I made beans and added some full potatoes and served them they looked at me and asked why nawapatia kitoweo tupu because to us that meal should either come with ugali, rice or spaghetti, another thing how many times a week does a kenyan eat ugali? at mum's it's about 5 times the other 2 (weekend) are Githeri . I do not think that is what Mukiri meant. His is more to do with 'traditional' diets vs 'westernized' diets. Perhaps what we consider Kosher type foods fall into this category. A long time ago people may have eaten dirty pigs, snakes, monkeys, hyenas, dogs or even rats and died out of some disease. People then established a societal conditioning that eating pigs, reptiles, primates, canines and some rodents is 'sin' coz they are unclean animals. fast forward a couple of thousand years. If you ask a man on the Kenyan Streets - Do you eat Monkeys? He will look at you like you have insulted him, his wife and his mother!! he will exclaim -NO!! NO!! but when you ask - Why not? He will not give you a satisfactory answer based on his own experience..... has anyone here tasted monkey flesh? If your neighbour was caught cooking monkeys - what would the village do to him??? Laugh Laugh Laugh They would probably lynch him, especially if he has been a generous guy sharing his food. Anyway, that is a flimsy explanation. What would make one go chasing monkeys especially after he has discovered eating easier-to-get vegetation can fill his stomach? I think that it is the eating of vegetation that has been rained upon by westernization such that today anyone who eats e.g. masukuma regularly is considered 'rural' or 'poor'. And is stigmatized. @masukuma the part where you said a long time ago, there might be a possibility people went through a phase of trial and error in food and all other complex things we have today. I believe otherwise myself, and it is easy to prove. Evidence of this is:If you analyze the complexity of language, "primitive" people would not have developed linguistic complexities that we see today. In fact, if it were true that complexity grows with time, how come we don't use even a quarter of a language. I don't think there is anyone who knows half of my vernacular. That means, the less than half is adequate for survival, so how was it possible to develop the 100% in the first place? For what purpose if 50% is enough to communicate? And this applies to all human languages the world over are equally complex. My convictionThe first human was not ignorant creature. He didn't acquire knowledge gradually. He was not a pagan who came to know source of creation later. He was not a dumb creation who learned language out of his own evolutionary faculties. He didn't lead a life of beast and evolved civilization later. Rather he was provided by faculty of thought and speech, freedom of choice. Was taught to know creator from start. And was created in best of forms. Creator spoke to him, and he obeyed the designer or creator. Hhhmmmmm,,,,,,,, Preference? I like to think of it as truth's way of humbling everyone indiscriminately. Yeah. Truth has a way of humbling everyone indiscriminately. But what is this you are thinking - the 'it' in the ',,,think of it ,,,'? Preference. 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti, let's consider the experimental case provided by @masukuma to help us reason together. A careful look at it reveals several things. Some of them are;
1. Design and communication do not necessarily produce 'obedience'. The experiment was designed by humans, but there was no explicit rule to be obeyed. In fact, there was no law.
2. Laws (can) emanate from 'non-designers'. The monkeys came up with the law against picking bananas on a(the) ladder. And hence though the monkeys were 'free to choose' what law or if any law at all, they 'designed' a law that exacted obedience. To the fifth generation.
3. Language is a higher form of communication. The monkeys communicated, but had no language. Symbolic system.
4. One doesn't require language to survive. The monkeys had no language, yet, they could get the outcomes they found pleausarable. Language is 'something else all together'.
5. 'Creation', necessarily follows 'self consciousness'. And self consciousness implies language. The monkeys had no religion of bananas or ladders. But the experimenters had at least, a belief system.
Hence, it is only necessary to have self consciousness to have a religion. 'God' isn't necessary for that. That is, 'God' is a result of self consciousness. And per force, is understood as 'originator' of self consciousness. This explains the existence of creation and evolutionary theories standing side by side.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:Kihara joni wrote:Mukiri wrote:Especially how and what we eat. True on this, I had some friends over and decided to make them a meal so I made beans and added some full potatoes and served them they looked at me and asked why nawapatia kitoweo tupu because to us that meal should either come with ugali, rice or spaghetti, another thing how many times a week does a kenyan eat ugali? at mum's it's about 5 times the other 2 (weekend) are Githeri . I do not think that is what Mukiri meant. His is more to do with 'traditional' diets vs 'westernized' diets. Perhaps what we consider Kosher type foods fall into this category. A long time ago people may have eaten dirty pigs, snakes, monkeys, hyenas, dogs or even rats and died out of some disease. People then established a societal conditioning that eating pigs, reptiles, primates, canines and some rodents is 'sin' coz they are unclean animals. fast forward a couple of thousand years. If you ask a man on the Kenyan Streets - Do you eat Monkeys? He will look at you like you have insulted him, his wife and his mother!! he will exclaim -NO!! NO!! but when you ask - Why not? He will not give you a satisfactory answer based on his own experience..... has anyone here tasted monkey flesh? If your neighbour was caught cooking monkeys - what would the village do to him??? Laugh Laugh Laugh They would probably lynch him, especially if he has been a generous guy sharing his food. Anyway, that is a flimsy explanation. What would make one go chasing monkeys especially after he has discovered eating easier-to-get vegetation can fill his stomach?I think that it is the eating of vegetation that has been rained upon by westernization such that today anyone who eats e.g. masukuma regularly is considered 'rural' or 'poor'. And is stigmatized. exactly my point - you don't see the reason!! you are a 5..6 generation person who found people doing things in a certain way. who knows? maybe 'le singe' is tasty!!! for crying out loud - people are eating bats in west africa! hapa cameroon and congo just west of Uganda watu wanararua 'le singe' mbaya! Kwani hawana 'vegetation'? I always have these thoughts when driving to town from Rongai when I see baboons just walking around sometimes terrorising foot travellers.... what if these things would be food? hmm? then I drive on!! Yeah you are right. I do not see the reason. Reason implies cognitive decision. But its not right of you to insist its only because I found people doing it a certain way. One can make a choice. Preference. Preference implies a decision... choice so to speak. In Kenya people don't prefer to eat rabbits rather than mongooses or eat goats rather than hyenas. They prefer to eat goat meat during the weekends rather than beef. they prefer chicken rather than rabbit. they prefer tea rather than coffee. Preference is always a matter of choice within a certain range of 'OK' substances. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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masukuma wrote:
Preference implies a decision... choice so to speak. In Kenya people don't prefer to eat rabbits rather than mongooses or eat goats rather than hyenas. They prefer to eat goat meat during the weekends rather than beef. they prefer chicken rather than rabbit. they prefer tea rather than coffee. Preference is always a matter of choice within a certain range of 'OK' substances. If I have been getting nourishment from eating animal protein, what good thing, or improvement will I obtain from now eating vulture meat rather than chicken meat? Or mongoose instead of rabbit? What incentive is there for me to decide to diversify outside of your so-called range of ok substances? Look again at your statement 'Preference is always a matter of choice within a certain range of 'OK' substances'. It is not wholly true. Preference is always a matter of choice. Fullstop. It is still preference in diversification or outside the range to use your terms. It is still not right to insist all people do is because they found people doing it that way. Maybe for a few but certainly not blanket all.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:
Preference implies a decision... choice so to speak. In Kenya people don't prefer to eat rabbits rather than mongooses or eat goats rather than hyenas. They prefer to eat goat meat during the weekends rather than beef. they prefer chicken rather than rabbit. they prefer tea rather than coffee. Preference is always a matter of choice within a certain range of 'OK' substances. If I have been getting nourishment from eating animal protein, what good thing, or improvement will I obtain from now eating vulture meat rather than chicken meat? Or mongoose instead of rabbit? What incentive is there for me to decide to diversify outside of your so-called range of ok substances? Look again at your statement 'Preference is always a matter of choice within a certain range of 'OK' substances'. It is not wholly true. Preference is always a matter of choice. Fullstop. It is still preference in diversification or outside the range to use your terms. It is still not right to insist all people do is because they found people doing it that way. Maybe for a few but certainly not blanket all. who do you know that eats vulture? who do you that has tasted vulture? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:
Preference implies a decision... choice so to speak. In Kenya people don't prefer to eat rabbits rather than mongooses or eat goats rather than hyenas. They prefer to eat goat meat during the weekends rather than beef. they prefer chicken rather than rabbit. they prefer tea rather than coffee. Preference is always a matter of choice within a certain range of 'OK' substances. If I have been getting nourishment from eating animal protein, what good thing, or improvement will I obtain from now eating vulture meat rather than chicken meat? Or mongoose instead of rabbit? What incentive is there for me to decide to diversify outside of your so-called range of ok substances? Look again at your statement 'Preference is always a matter of choice within a certain range of 'OK' substances'. It is not wholly true. Preference is always a matter of choice. Fullstop. It is still preference in diversification or outside the range to use your terms. It is still not right to insist all people do is because they found people doing it that way. Maybe for a few but certainly not blanket all. who do you know that eats vulture? who do you that has tasted vulture? No one.
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