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Atheism by Harrison Mumia
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Mtu Biz
#31 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 8:38:02 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/16/2007
Posts: 1,320
@alphadoti

In your quotation of the quran 21:30 above.
Who is or who are these 'WE' that caused the sepatation of the universe.

Keep it short if you will..
Sola Scriptura
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  | | Edit by user: Monday, April 28, 2014 8:40 PM | Reason: Not specified
AlphDoti
#32 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 10:46:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Mtu Biz wrote:
@alphadoti

In your quotation of the quran 21:30 above.
Who is or who are these 'WE' that caused the sepatation of the universe.

Keep it short if you will..

@mtu biz it's God.

We already know God our lord is One. The Quran says very clearly that there is only One God, Allah. "There is no god but Allah" is the basic principle of Islam.
Quran Surah al-Ikhlas chapter 112:1-4 says this.

But you wonder why does Allah, our God uses the word "We" to refer to Himself in many verses in the Quran?

Explanation
(1) - Whenever Allah is mentioned in the third person there are always singular pronouns used, such as He, Him (Huwa or Hu).
(2) - Whenever Allah is spoken to in the second person there are also singular pronouns, such as Thou, Thine and Thee (Anta, Ka).
(3) - However, only in the first person some times the pronouns I, My or Mine (Ana, Iyaya, ya) are used and sometimes "We", "Us" and "Our" (Nahnu, Na) are used.

Why?
This is a style of speech.
Sometimes the speaker says I and sometime says we. We also use that in our conversations.
- you will see that often the first person singular such as I or My is used, when Allah speaks about His love, care and closeness and forgiveness for His servants.
- also the first person plural is used when Allah speaks about His power, Majesty, Glory, Great deeds or when He speaks about His anger and wrath for the sinners and criminals.

Pluralis Majestatis
Quote:
- Also known as the "royal we" or the "Victorian we" has been restricted to august personages such as monarchs, bishops, Popes, and university rectors.
- The reason behind the pluralis majestatis is the idea that a monarch or other high official ALWAYS SPEAKS FOR HIS OR HER PEOPLE.


The royal we (royal plural)
Quote:
The royal we is the first-person plural pronoun when used by an important personage to refer to himself or herself.
Its best known usage is by a monarch such as a king, queen, or pope.
It is also used in certain formal contexts by bishops and university rectors
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tycho
#33 Posted : Tuesday, April 29, 2014 5:22:32 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
tycho wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Swenani wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Swenani wrote:
@Alphadoti Do you believe in the science evolution(big bang theory) or the creation of universe?(Please use faith,science and logical to justify you answer)

Now if you were to reason do you still believe in your theory?

@swenani, yes, the Quran describes the Big Bang and the common origin of all space and matter.

IMPORTANT: But don't take that Quran is a science text book, but it mentions many scientific facts. And it mentions these facts long before they were discovered. So it mention the creation of universe through the Big Bang.

Quran chapter 21:30 says: have not those who disbelieve know that the heavens and earth were both JOINED, then we TORE them apart.

One scientist said:
Quote:
when you look out at the universe and look at the other distant galaxies, you see that they are all fleeing away from us, that they are all moving outward at huge velocities. You exrapolate like that all the way back, you see that one time, maybe 13 or 14 billion years ago, everything that there was must have been compressed into ONE inconceivable dense POINT. Then something happened triggering the most colossal explosion in history. The explosion created the entire universe. THE BIG BANG.


So in summary this Quranic verse states 2 scientifically accurate facts about the creation of universe through the Big Bang:
1. the common origin of all space and matter (..the heavens and the earth were both JOINED)
2. the violent SEPARATION that created all the matter in the universe (... then We TORE them apart)

@Alphadoti, You havent answered my question.I have highlighted for you above.

The big bhang theory and the creation of the universe theory can and will never be compatible

@swenani, I believe in the creation. And the creation happen by the Big Bang.

Now let us ask ourselves these questions:
1. did the universe come from nowhere?
2. did it come from nothing?
3. do you think the universe created themselves?

The answer if very obvious NO. Of course it was not from nothing.
- 'No'-thing cannot produce 'some'-thing.
- You must have something to produce something
- So did universe just came up from nowhere along the lifetime of the space? Of course no.

So did the universe create itself? Is it possible?
- No way, because to create itself, it has not to exist.
- But if it didn't exist, how could it create itself?

Remember you cannot create something from nothing. Then it means something created it.

So I believe that the tiny inconceivable dense POINT contained all the FORMULA to expand into the universe we have today. Just like microscopic cell has all the formula (DNA) to become a complex human body and mind that works perfectly by itself. So there was a formula put in the code at the point of BIG BANG, then with the command of the designer, the formula/code/"DNA" grew into the complex perfectly organized bodies of the universe that we see today.

So I believe in this creation. It is not a theory to me. It is real. Because it has been confirmed by the Quran. But it is scientific too because you one cannot destroy or create matter.

Can a formula create itself out of nothing

No of course not. Is it logical to say that formula is created/designed/produced by a designer?


There's 'self organization' which one can argue is creation out of 'nothing' and which doesn't need a designer.
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Impunity
#34 Posted : Tuesday, April 29, 2014 10:04:10 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,331
Location: Masada
Its written those which cannot understand we live to the Creator.
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Euge
#35 Posted : Tuesday, April 29, 2014 10:25:36 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 8/4/2008
Posts: 2,849
Location: Rupi
Swenani wrote:
Euge wrote:
Msa Liti wrote:
I found Fr Wamugunda's take on Atheism in the Sunday Nation refreshing.
There are theoretical and practical atheists.


Let me look for it.

http://www.nation.co.ke/...8/-/xbb8hx/-/index.html

So most of the self confessed "christians" and "muslims" are practical atheists!!!

That is a very true sad fact


Thanks. I agree kabisa.
Lord, thank you!
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dunkang
#36 Posted : Tuesday, April 29, 2014 10:56:05 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,824
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities” – Voltaire
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

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2012
#37 Posted : Tuesday, April 29, 2014 11:48:42 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
MKWASI wrote:
???

May God rescue his soul.



When I read this last week it reminded me of the gay and lesbian movement.
Why do these guys want recognition and debates? If they are sure of themselves why not be content with themselves? Like most, I'm a Christian but that's between me and my Jesus.

I just don't get what's to be gained by recruiting someone into non-belief. I'd have more respect for someone recruiting you into something that one moving you from something to nothing.

BBI will solve it :)
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  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 11:51 AM | Reason: Not specified
keraka
#38 Posted : Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:07:49 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 637
Location: Nairobi
2012 wrote:
MKWASI wrote:
???

May God rescue his soul.



When I read this last week it reminded me of the gay and lesbian movement.
Why do these guys want recognition and debates? If they are sure of themselves why not be content with themselves? Like most, I'm a Christian but that's between me and my Jesus.

I just don't get what's to be gained by recruiting someone into non-belief. I'd have more respect for someone recruiting you into something that one moving you from something to nothing.


On another note i happen to work in close proximity to the Mumia guy in the Office n he happens to be a real gentleman who is very passionate about anything he does.Other than that he is good at landing on young yellow yellow interns we have at the office not minding whether they are from God or not.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
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Muriel
#39 Posted : Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:55:29 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
So he has not been visited by 'Jesus' like the son of Mrs. Waiyaki?

I saw the video here How Jesus appeared to my son and nephew,testimony

He should relax, he will see 'Jesus' soon enough maybe in his inner room.
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Swenani
#40 Posted : Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:55:40 PM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
keraka wrote:
2012 wrote:
MKWASI wrote:
???

May God rescue his soul.



When I read this last week it reminded me of the gay and lesbian movement.
Why do these guys want recognition and debates? If they are sure of themselves why not be content with themselves? Like most, I'm a Christian but that's between me and my Jesus.

I just don't get what's to be gained by recruiting someone into non-belief. I'd have more respect for someone recruiting you into something that one moving you from something to nothing.


On another note i happen to work in close proximity to the Mumia guy in the Office n he happens to be a real gentleman who is very passionate about anything he does.Other than that he is good at landing on young yellow yellow interns we have at the office not minding whether they are from God or not.


@Keraka,How do people get internship at CBK?
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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