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From the eighth rung
Wakanyugi
#21 Posted : Wednesday, April 23, 2014 4:58:26 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
Muriel wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
Muriel wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
Muriel wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
Muriel wrote:


Time maybe to be said, 'make sure you kick the ladder away, before you even climb'. Yes, I would kick the ladder than climb and before anyone else climbs.

But this thread belongs to that person who may want to use the ladder.

This thread, then, is not for me. Good luck.


Rather than climb ladders, would it not be more satisfying to be the maker of ladders and to help others find there way up the rungs?

After all the good book (I forget which one) says: "Between giving and receiving, there is no difference. The Universe is set up in such a way that you only get because you give"


But I don't think it is just a matter of ladders. Some ladders should not even be built. After all there is no guarantee that that a ladder is used only for climbing. It can also be used for descent.


Good point.

Which is why I suggest you not just build ladders, you help others UP them.

After all, to paraphrase another good book:

The day you stand before Osiris, the great judge, you will have to answer this question:

"How many people had their lives changed for the better because you walked on Earth?' [The Egyptian Book of the Dead]


Wakanyungi,

The book of the dead still does not invalidate my point. You can build a ladder but can you determine how it is used? Someones life can change for the better if, as Osiris will measure in the scales, someone descends so that the other rises.

But why should someone descend at all? Shida yangu iko hapo. Don't build, no descent!


I recently received a quotation on facebook that went something like this:

"Sometimes people to whom you are kind will be unkind...be kind anyway"

To which I would add:

"Sometimes people will use the ladders you have built for their benefit to descend rather than ascend...build ladders anyway."




Perhaps I shouldn't have put in that line. So much for being the clincher!


No worry. I am sure you will clinch the next one. smile smile smile
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
danas10
#22 Posted : Wednesday, April 23, 2014 7:11:33 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 763
Location: Intersection
Wakanyugi wrote:
danas10 wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:

Good point.

Which is why I suggest you not just build ladders, you help others UP them.

After all, to paraphrase another good book:

The day you stand before Osiris, the great judge, you will have to answer this question:

"How many people had their lives changed for the better because you walked on Earth?' [The Egyptian Book of the Dead]


Maybe one of the reasons but not the only. We also should not give just because we received. There are some "gifts" we have to throw away, the ladders we must kick should we find we climbed them.


@Dana10: I think you got my point upside down.

The law of the Universe does not say you should give because you receive (although it is certainly a good thing to do so). It says 'you only get because you give.' You can control what you get by controlling what you give.

Whatever you have attracted into your reality is a perfect mirror image of what you have given out (in material, energy, intent, prayer, desire, action etc) Ergo there is no difference between giving and getting.

I think this is another way of saying you create your own reality.


Maybe I did. I am only disputing the "only" as the only. The rest I agree with you.


Muriel, Yes we need ladders. Some ladders are useful. Though not in every aspect of our lives. That is why we kick some, should we find we climbed them, and use others to descend.
tycho
#23 Posted : Thursday, April 24, 2014 12:42:16 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
danas10 wrote:
tycho wrote:
Someone once told me, 'make sure you kick the ladder away, once you're through climbing it'. There's no going back to a ladder already climbed. But then there's something else about kicking a ladder; someone else may use it. This thread belongs to that person.

In my climb I have come across many lessons. But the most important are;

1. One will always experience evil. But evil is good, for at the end is illumination, for those that strive against it.

2. Just as there's evil, there's goodness. And the evil is in the goodness, and goodness is supreme, and purposeful. And all Scripture is meant to kindle the fire of goodness.

3. The path of and to goodness is an eight rung ladder, and the ladder is also a person. Each state of consciousness a rung.

4. To have ultimate power, you must not only step on the eighth rung of the ladder, but you must daily be the ladder unto others.

5. There's something sweeter than sex, and that's love without fear. So it's better for one to resolve his fear by illumination than have sex.

6. Focus and concentration will always yield the desired results, as long us you keep to the ladder.

7. At the seventh rung, you must remember to doff your hat at the prophets and Brahmins, but no more. Your mind must go beyond Scriptures past, and write down new words.

8. There on the last rung, the ladder begins again; and just as Man and ultimate power are one, the master becomes the student.

And life becomes infinitely simple. And beautiful. Like the rainbow.


Thanks for sharing.

Could you elaborate on no. 3?


@Danas, the ladder, 'the way', is elaborated in who you are, what you say and do.

Muriel
#24 Posted : Thursday, April 24, 2014 1:20:04 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
danas10 wrote:

Muriel, Yes we need ladders. Some ladders are useful. Though not in every aspect of our lives. That is why we kick some, should we find we climbed them, and use others to descend.



Danas10,

Now you see? How can you say 'some' are useful then add, 'not in every aspect'. The 'non-usefulness' in the secondary aspects surely cancels out the some 'usefulness' in initial aspects. I urge you to reconsider and kick them all as you come across them, not just some.

Brother, are you saying that the ladder is character? Is it thought and deed? If it is, then we have gone off in a tangent.
danas10
#25 Posted : Thursday, April 24, 2014 1:46:43 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 763
Location: Intersection
Muriel wrote:
danas10 wrote:

Muriel, Yes we need ladders. Some ladders are useful. Though not in every aspect of our lives. That is why we kick some, should we find we climbed them, and use others to descend.



Danas10,

Now you see? How can you say 'some' are useful then add, 'not in every aspect'. The 'non-usefulness' in the secondary aspects surely cancels out the some 'usefulness' in initial aspects. I urge you to reconsider and kick them all as you come across them, not just some.

Brother, are you saying that the ladder is character? Is it thought and deed? If it is, then we have gone off in a tangent.


Muriel,
I think of it this way, Jesus is the "way" (biblically and taking ladders as tycho puts it). I am persuaded by his teachings. But, the fact that he changed water into wine does not mean that I should like/take wine in the same way that I like/take water. I may dislike wine.Think
tycho
#26 Posted : Thursday, April 24, 2014 1:48:39 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:
danas10 wrote:

Muriel, Yes we need ladders. Some ladders are useful. Though not in every aspect of our lives. That is why we kick some, should we find we climbed them, and use others to descend.



Danas10,

Now you see? How can you say 'some' are useful then add, 'not in every aspect'. The 'non-usefulness' in the secondary aspects surely cancels out the some 'usefulness' in initial aspects. I urge you to reconsider and kick them all as you come across them, not just some.

Brother, are you saying that the ladder is character? Is it thought and deed? If it is, then we have gone off in a tangent.


The sublime.
Muriel
#27 Posted : Thursday, April 24, 2014 2:24:07 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
danas10 wrote:
Muriel wrote:
danas10 wrote:

Muriel, Yes we need ladders. Some ladders are useful. Though not in every aspect of our lives. That is why we kick some, should we find we climbed them, and use others to descend.



Danas10,

Now you see? How can you say 'some' are useful then add, 'not in every aspect'. The 'non-usefulness' in the secondary aspects surely cancels out the some 'usefulness' in initial aspects. I urge you to reconsider and kick them all as you come across them, not just some.

Brother, are you saying that the ladder is character? Is it thought and deed? If it is, then we have gone off in a tangent.


Muriel,
I think of it this way, Jesus is the "way" (biblically and taking ladders as tycho puts it). I am persuaded by his teachings. But, the fact that he changed water into wine does not mean that I should like/take wine in the same way that I like/take water. I may dislike wine.Think



Brother says the ladder is the sublime, the way, who you are, what you say and do. You say its Jesus. I say that what you (Danas10) have said is the exoteric.

danas10
#28 Posted : Thursday, April 24, 2014 4:06:27 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 763
Location: Intersection
Muriel wrote:
danas10 wrote:
Muriel wrote:
danas10 wrote:

Muriel, Yes we need ladders. Some ladders are useful. Though not in every aspect of our lives. That is why we kick some, should we find we climbed them, and use others to descend.



Danas10,

Now you see? How can you say 'some' are useful then add, 'not in every aspect'. The 'non-usefulness' in the secondary aspects surely cancels out the some 'usefulness' in initial aspects. I urge you to reconsider and kick them all as you come across them, not just some.

Brother, are you saying that the ladder is character? Is it thought and deed? If it is, then we have gone off in a tangent.


Muriel,
I think of it this way, Jesus is the "way" (biblically and taking ladders as tycho puts it). I am persuaded by his teachings. But, the fact that he changed water into wine does not mean that I should like/take wine in the same way that I like/take water. I may dislike wine.Think



Brother says the ladder is the sublime, the way, who you are, what you say and do. You say its Jesus. I say that what you (Danas10) have said is the exoteric.



Well, the exoteric can also be a ladder, not so? If I understood correctly, you say it is "elaborated" in who you are, say and do. To the extent that I choose to define elaborate as "produce from", then who I am, say and do could be coming from somewhere and it is seen in I (elaborated in). Hence my example of Jesus above. My thoughts...

Why are you convinced we do not need ladders?
Wakanyugi
#29 Posted : Thursday, April 24, 2014 4:26:24 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
danas10 wrote:
Muriel wrote:
danas10 wrote:

Muriel, Yes we need ladders. Some ladders are useful. Though not in every aspect of our lives. That is why we kick some, should we find we climbed them, and use others to descend.



Danas10,

Now you see? How can you say 'some' are useful then add, 'not in every aspect'. The 'non-usefulness' in the secondary aspects surely cancels out the some 'usefulness' in initial aspects. I urge you to reconsider and kick them all as you come across them, not just some.

Brother, are you saying that the ladder is character? Is it thought and deed? If it is, then we have gone off in a tangent.


Muriel,
I think of it this way, Jesus is the "way" (biblically and taking ladders as tycho puts it). I am persuaded by his teachings. But, the fact that he changed water into wine does not mean that I should like/take wine in the same way that I like/take water. I may dislike wine.Think


Jesus was one of the greatest ladder makers that ever lived. He even trained in Carpentry as a profession.

Mohamed built a mean ladder too, as did Buddha, Zoroaster et al. None of them identified with their particular ladder when they were alive, they all emphasized the rungs and the final destination.

Unfortunately their followers are everywhere busy kicking away the ladders, or trying to stop others from climbing.

Strange because these ladders lean on the same wall, point in same direction and are meant to lead to the same place. Even the rungs are similar.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Muriel
#30 Posted : Thursday, April 24, 2014 4:50:32 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
Wakanyugi wrote:
danas10 wrote:
Muriel wrote:
danas10 wrote:

Muriel, Yes we need ladders. Some ladders are useful. Though not in every aspect of our lives. That is why we kick some, should we find we climbed them, and use others to descend.



Danas10,

Now you see? How can you say 'some' are useful then add, 'not in every aspect'. The 'non-usefulness' in the secondary aspects surely cancels out the some 'usefulness' in initial aspects. I urge you to reconsider and kick them all as you come across them, not just some.

Brother, are you saying that the ladder is character? Is it thought and deed? If it is, then we have gone off in a tangent.


Muriel,
I think of it this way, Jesus is the "way" (biblically and taking ladders as tycho puts it). I am persuaded by his teachings. But, the fact that he changed water into wine does not mean that I should like/take wine in the same way that I like/take water. I may dislike wine.Think


Jesus was one of the greatest ladder makers that ever lived. He even trained in Carpentry as a profession.

Mohamed built a mean ladder too, as did Buddha, Zoroaster et al. None of them identified with their particular ladder when they were alive, they all emphasized the rungs and the final destination.

Unfortunately their followers are everywhere busy kicking away the ladders, or trying to stop others from climbing.

Strange because these ladders lean on the same wall, point in same direction and are meant to lead to the same place. Even the rungs are similar.


Lol! That all may be one? But I am separate! Why then should I not kick down these ladders? Lol.
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