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The fish that got away
kysse
#61 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2014 11:45:39 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/17/2013
Posts: 4,693
Location: Earth
@Alpha
Sorry but you cannot Interpret the Bible the same way you interpret the Koran.

We shall engage in long vain theological discussions yet all true Christians understand the meaning of that statement.

Your mind is Blocked to understanding the spiritual interpretation of the Bible until you encounter the person in subject.

It's like me trying to interpret the Koran! I will first need to be in it/embrace so as to fully understand it.

As it is,you are using your Koran mind to Interpret the Bible but sadly you will NEVER get it even if we stayed here till 2030

And no I am not religious,just telling you the truth.



Muriel
#62 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2014 1:19:22 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
tycho wrote:
So, according to your impartial investigations, can you show us that indeed Jonah spent three days and three nights in the fish?

Secondly, can you show us why counting the days as you've done is correct? Like, there are allegations that Jews counted their days, and regarded time differently from 'us'.


Yes. The allegations are very interesting.

The Israelite, Hebrew and Jewish mindset when talking about 'time' and 'days' is intriguing.

For example a day started in the evening after the sun set and ended the following day when the sun set. Yet the hours were counted from sunrise e.g. the 'third hour' (our todays 9am, or 'saa tatu'). And also a part of the day was considered a full day when counting days.

Very interesting.
AlphDoti
#63 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2014 3:08:39 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
kysse wrote:
@Alpha
Sorry but you cannot Interpret the Bible the same way you interpret the Koran.

We shall engage in long vain theological discussions yet all true Christians understand the meaning of that statement...

And no I am not religious,just telling you the truth.

@kysse the statement of Jesus (a.s) says only one sign/miracle shall be given to the Jews, and he says "as Jonah was, so shall he be".

I asked you what you think the miracle of Jonah was? And we all know it was the fact that people expected Jonah to die.

Then you brought up the angle of days. You said the miracle is the number of days. I have counted the days for you. Now you realize they don't really match.

And you say I'm interpreting the Bible same as I interpret Quran!

You said you are not religious, but this is just logic I'm giving you.
AlphDoti
#64 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2014 3:11:32 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Muriel wrote:
tycho wrote:
So, according to your impartial investigations, can you show us that indeed Jonah spent three days and three nights in the fish?

Secondly, can you show us why counting the days as you've done is correct? Like, there are allegations that Jews counted their days, and regarded time differently from 'us'.

Yes. The allegations are very interesting.

The Israelite, Hebrew and Jewish mindset when talking about 'time' and 'days' is intriguing.

For example a day started in the evening after the sun set and ended the following day when the sun set. Yet the hours were counted from sunrise e.g. the 'third hour' (our todays 9am, or 'saa tatu'). And also a part of the day was considered a full day when counting days.

Very interesting.

So count for us we see. Similarly to Islamic calendar, a day starts in the evening. When we sight the moon in the evening we start counting new lunar month from that evening. When we sight the moon, we start fasting. When we sight the next new moon again, we stop fasting. It is night and day, 6pm to 6pm.
AlphDoti
#65 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2014 3:32:32 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Quran 4:157
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not"

NOTE: if you have any more doubt, open your bible and see matt 17:2 and check the title of that section
TRANSFIGURATION

tycho
#66 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2014 4:31:42 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:
tycho wrote:
So, according to your impartial investigations, can you show us that indeed Jonah spent three days and three nights in the fish?

Secondly, can you show us why counting the days as you've done is correct? Like, there are allegations that Jews counted their days, and regarded time differently from 'us'.

Yes. The allegations are very interesting.

The Israelite, Hebrew and Jewish mindset when talking about 'time' and 'days' is intriguing.

For example a day started in the evening after the sun set and ended the following day when the sun set. Yet the hours were counted from sunrise e.g. the 'third hour' (our todays 9am, or 'saa tatu'). And also a part of the day was considered a full day when counting days.

Very interesting.

So count for us we see. Similarly to Islamic calendar, a day starts in the evening. When we sight the moon in the evening we start counting new lunar month from that evening. When we sight the moon, we start fasting. When we sight the next new moon again, we stop fasting. It is night and day, 6pm to 6pm.


The burden of proof doesn't lie with Muriel. But I have followed you around enough. I believe you have given enough evidence by your 'selectiveness', and 'evasiveness' that you have only one aim; to show, and probably establish a supremacy of the Islamic view, and that you're not to be constrained with logic and truth.

An example of this is provided by your post on the 'transfiguration'. 'Yesu kubadilisha sura'. In this case, the kiswahili expression is still in use, and is taken to mean a change in attitude, and determination, and to the wider extent, personality. But you want to introduce a different meaning, probably meant to prove a 'changling' - a disservice to the Messiahnic 'idea'.

So to me, you are a propagandist. A mujahideen. And seeing you thus, has transformed me greatly.
muganda
#67 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2014 4:43:39 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,907
AlphDoti wrote:
Quran 4:157
see matt 17:2


Bwana @Alphdoti, why do I interpret mischief when muslims use the bible to explain their faith! If I deemed my faith supreme, does it need a buttress in the form of Judaism or Christianity?

Does it purport that a man by reading a map, can walk the personal journey of faith another has made, even from birth?


Unless you are like Pi, who regarded all religion with the same esteem:
"Hindus, in their capacity for love, are indeed, hairless Christians, just as Muslims, in the way they see the God in everything, are bearded Hindus, and Christians, in their devotion to God are hat wearing Muslims."
Life of Pi


Muriel
#68 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2014 4:54:51 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
tycho wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:
tycho wrote:
So, according to your impartial investigations, can you show us that indeed Jonah spent three days and three nights in the fish?

Secondly, can you show us why counting the days as you've done is correct? Like, there are allegations that Jews counted their days, and regarded time differently from 'us'.

Yes. The allegations are very interesting.

The Israelite, Hebrew and Jewish mindset when talking about 'time' and 'days' is intriguing.

For example a day started in the evening after the sun set and ended the following day when the sun set. Yet the hours were counted from sunrise e.g. the 'third hour' (our todays 9am, or 'saa tatu'). And also a part of the day was considered a full day when counting days.

Very interesting.

So count for us we see. Similarly to Islamic calendar, a day starts in the evening. When we sight the moon in the evening we start counting new lunar month from that evening. When we sight the moon, we start fasting. When we sight the next new moon again, we stop fasting. It is night and day, 6pm to 6pm.


The burden of proof doesn't lie with Muriel. But I have followed you around enough. I believe you have given enough evidence by your 'selectiveness', and 'evasiveness' that you have only one aim; to show, and probably establish a supremacy of the Islamic view, and that you're not to be constrained with logic and truth.

An example of this is provided by your post on the 'transfiguration'. 'Yesu kubadilisha sura'. In this case, the kiswahili expression is still in use, and is taken to mean a change in attitude, and determination, and to the wider extent, personality. But you want to introduce a different meaning, probably meant to prove a 'changling' - a disservice to the Messiahnic 'idea'.

So to me, you are a propagandist. A mujahideen. And seeing you thus, has transformed me greatly.


I will nevertheless answer him. I must have an answer and consequently he must be answered, but as to whether he accepts the answers he has been given its upon him.


This man is just something else.
Muriel
#69 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2014 5:11:22 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
AlphDoti wrote:

So count for us we see. Similarly to Islamic calendar, a day starts in the evening. When we sight the moon in the evening we start counting new lunar month from that evening. When we sight the moon, we start fasting. When we sight the next new moon again, we stop fasting. It is night and day, 6pm to 6pm.


Much obliged.

Quote:
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


Keep in mind the comparison: Belly of fish TO heart of the earth.


Any part of the day is counted as a full day. Hence:
(1) Part of Friday = full day, day 1.
(2) Saturday = full day, day 2.
(3) Part of Sunday = full day, day 3.


Any part of night is counted as full night. Hence:
(1) Friday night = full night, night 1.
(2) Saturday night = full night, night 2.
(3) ? night = full night, night 3?

Enter Gathesmane night.

Jonah in belly of fish experienced feelings of agony (probably in one of his 3 nights, for good measure) that Jesus also experienced in one of his nights. Jonah 'cried' by reason of his affliction. (Thats Jonah 2:2)

Jonah 2:6. Jonah (in the belly of the fish) went down to the 'bottoms of the mountains' and the 'earth with her bars' was about him 'forever', yet the Lord brought up his life from 'corruption', death.

Matthew 26:38 Jesus exceeding sorrowful, agonized in Gathesmane night compared to Jonah's agony. Subsequently, Jesus was then buried and the grave covered compared to Jonah's 'bottoms of the mountains' and 'earth with her bars'. Jesus was called forth by His father and saw no 'corruption'.

Keep in mind the comparison: Belly of fish TO heart of the earth.

The only logical conclusion is that Gathesmane night counts. Total count = 3 nights.

3 days & 3 nights all accounted for.

Oh!!

Take it for whatever its worth that Jesus was alive in this night. Gathesmane night. For those who make being alive their only point.

Oh, almost forgot, perhaps he should tell us then if Jonah spent 72 hours in the belly of the fish. From which day to which day?

Am now off to enjoy a long weekend. See y'all later, friends!
AlphDoti
#70 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 12:03:47 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Muriel wrote:
Much obliged.

Keep in mind the comparison: Belly of fish TO heart of the earth.

Any part of the day is counted as a full day. Hence:
(1) Part of Friday = full day, day 1.
(2) Saturday = full day, day 2.
(3) Part of Sunday = full day, day 3.

Any part of night is counted as full night. Hence:
(1) Friday night = full night, night 1.
(2) Saturday night = full night, night 2.
(3) ? night = full night, night 3?

Enter Gathesmane night.

...

The only logical conclusion is that Gathesmane night counts. Total count = 3 nights.

3 days & 3 nights all accounted for.

Oh!!

Take it for whatever its worth that Jesus was alive in this night. Gathesmane night. For those who make being alive their only point.

@muriel first you need to buy some bundles and get yourself a modem, you only rely on office Internet that is why you must always disappear on Weekends?

Now, you see Jesus (a.s) says the miracle I will show you is the miracle of Jonah. So the question is what miracle did Jonah perform? So Jesus says as Jonah was, so shall the son of man.

The only miracle!!

He didn't say the 2000 pigs destroyed. He didn't say you know the fig tree that dried. He didn't say you Lazarus raising from death.

The only sign is the sign of Jonah. So what happened to Jonah is going to happen to me. So how was Jonah? He was alive.

This is a miracle:
1. that you throw a man into a raging sea and he does not die. It is a miracle.
2. a fish comes and gulped him and he didn't die. It is a miracle
3. three days and three nights and suffocation in the whale's belly you have to die, but he didn't die. It is a miracle.

Can't you see?

And when I ask you how was Jesus in the tomb for three days and three nights? Over 1.5 billion Christians say he was dead!

Is that as Jonah or not as Jonah. So who is speaking the truth, you or Jesus? The 1.5B Christians or Jesus Christ? And now you say Jesus was talking about the time factor.

Look my brother, there is nothing miraculous about time factor. Three days an three nights is not a miracle Shame on you Shame on you

The miracle is you expect the man to die and he doesn't die; that is the miracle!

You see I traveled on a long journey once, which took me three days and three nights in a bus, to and fro. So was that a miracle? Miracle of @alphdoti, it took me three days and three nights!

Is that a miracle? This is nonsense. Silly! How can you talk like that? There is nothing miraculous about three days and three nights.
Or three weeks and three years or three decades.

But a man who drowning catches straws
The whole salvation is depending on this. So he says it the time factor which is miraculous!

You tried calculating the nights and days and you missed out one night. But you found the night at mount Gathesmane. Was Jesus dead at Mt. Gathesmane!
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