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The fish that got away
Rank: Member Joined: 4/28/2009 Posts: 290
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:Then open the question to anyone whose interested in engaging you. Christian, or non Christian. Even Man God. The questions are open to anyone, according to story of Jonah (a.s) in the Bible: 1). What was the sign (miracle) of Jonah (a.s)? 2). When Jonah (a.s) was thrown into the sea, was he dead or was he alive? "....as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Would it have made a difference if He said, "....as Jonah was three days and three nights alive in the belly of the fish, so shall the son of man be three days and three nights alive in the belly of the earth.."? You can spot the difference, right? @muriel what is the difference? And about the other discussion we had together, I answered all your questions, including the ones you ask me "yes/no". I answered with a straight yes or no. Could you be kind and answer the two questions in my post #13? You answered????? Let me give you a benefit of doubt, perhaps its my fault I did not see, so kindly show me where, I will appreciate.Dismiss. What does Ja-kom's last sentence read? Reading and Comprehension. Read. Comprehend. for as ,,,, so shall. This is Typology. Symbology. (Like my brothers, Tycho & Symbols, hola, hola!). Metaphor. You have taken readers through the book of Jonah and doubtless you noticed these terminologies as you read and hopefully comprehended chapter 2 and they rang a bell somewhere, no?: (1) Jonah's 'things wrapped around his head'. Jesus's crown around his head. Thorns. (2) Jesus's 'heart of the earth'. Jonah's 'earth with her bars'. (3) Jonah would sacrifice. Jesus's sacrifice. Lamb. (4) Jonah was agonizing. Jesus agonizing. Gathesmane. (5) And so on and so on. Read. Comprehend. Read then use whatever language, words, expressions, pictures to comprehend. After comprehending, then you should attempt to answer the questions. But since you take these texts as random bits and pieces of information, instead of as a whole, you will go on as you have. Please proceed. Like I said I am not here to stop you from doing whatever you want to do. Knock yourself out! Sir. Nguuguu ya Wikipedia defines 'typology' thus...."Typology in Christian theology and Biblical exegesis is a doctrine or theory concerning the predictive relationship of the Old Testament to the New Testament. Events, persons or statements in the Old Testament are seen as types pre-figuring or superseded by antitypes, events or aspects of Christ or his revelation described in the New Testament. For example Jonah may be seen as the type of Christ in that he appeared to have emerged from the whale's belly and from death. When we say that someone is a type of Christ, we are saying that a person in the Old Testament behaves in a way that corresponds to Jesus’ character or actions in the New Testament. When we say that something is “typical” of Christ, we are saying that an object or event in the Old Testament can be viewed as representative of some quality of Jesus. The difference between an illustration and a type..... A type is always identified as such in the New Testament. Finding correlations between an Old Testament story and the life of Christ is simply finding illustrations, not types. In other words, typology is determined by Scripture. The Holy Spirit inspired the use of types; illustrations are the result of man’s study. For example, many people see parallels between Joseph and Jesus. The humiliation and subsequent glorification of Joseph seem to correspond to the death and resurrection of Christ. However, the New Testament never uses Joseph as a model of Christ; therefore, Joseph’s story is properly called an illustration, but not a type, of Christ. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. Romans 5:19
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:...
(1) Jonah's 'things wrapped around his head'. Jesus's crown around his head. Thorns.
(2) Jesus's 'heart of the earth'. Jonah's 'earth with her bars'.
(3) Jonah would sacrifice. Jesus's sacrifice. Lamb.
(4) Jonah was agonizing. Jesus agonizing. Gathesmane.
(5) And so on and so on.
...After comprehending, then you should attempt to answer the questions. @muriel which questions do you want me answered? I already asked but you have not answered. I went back to the your (a) and (b) questions in another thread and I answered both of them. If it were not satisfactory, you'd have said then. Now back to Jonah (a.s). You're calling Jesus (a.s) words metaphor. That he didn't really mean what he said literally. @muriel this is really funny. I'm asking you, you speak English, you said what Jesus (a.s) said " my miracle will be like Jonah" does not really mean that? What does it mean, the above list? (1). the miracle is the "crown" will be like that of Jonah (2). the miracle is Jesus and Jonah's "hearts" (3). the miracle is being sacrificial? (4). the miracle is agonizing in Mt. Gathesmane like Jonah? (5). and so on and on? I want to know what language are you talking. Miracle is being crown with thorns on head? Miracle is being a sacrificial lamb? Is that English? Please @muriel, let us not abuse a language. Let us not talk gibberish! Alphdoti, yes, I am laughing. Serious. ,,,,,,,,,,,, dying of laughter! Clearly your language is different from mine. You went through a different syllabus from the one I went through, perhaps. Likely. Definitely. You have a passage to read and understand, but you want to extract, comprehend what you want. For example, you say "you (I, Muriel) said what Jesus (a.s) said "my miracle will be like Jonah". - Oh, what a roar I have had about that! It is right and apt and justified that you ask what language I am 'talking' even though it should be what language I am 'using' ,,,,,, Like I said, again, I am not here to stop you from doing what you want. Knock yourself out! Sir. Repeat.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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Ja-Kom wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:Then open the question to anyone whose interested in engaging you. Christian, or non Christian. Even Man God. The questions are open to anyone, according to story of Jonah (a.s) in the Bible: 1). What was the sign (miracle) of Jonah (a.s)? 2). When Jonah (a.s) was thrown into the sea, was he dead or was he alive? "....as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Would it have made a difference if He said, "....as Jonah was three days and three nights alive in the belly of the fish, so shall the son of man be three days and three nights alive in the belly of the earth.."? You can spot the difference, right? @muriel what is the difference? And about the other discussion we had together, I answered all your questions, including the ones you ask me "yes/no". I answered with a straight yes or no. Could you be kind and answer the two questions in my post #13? You answered????? Let me give you a benefit of doubt, perhaps its my fault I did not see, so kindly show me where, I will appreciate.Dismiss. What does Ja-kom's last sentence read? Reading and Comprehension. Read. Comprehend. for as ,,,, so shall. This is Typology. Symbology. (Like my brothers, Tycho & Symbols, hola, hola!). Metaphor. You have taken readers through the book of Jonah and doubtless you noticed these terminologies as you read and hopefully comprehended chapter 2 and they rang a bell somewhere, no?: (1) Jonah's 'things wrapped around his head'. Jesus's crown around his head. Thorns. (2) Jesus's 'heart of the earth'. Jonah's 'earth with her bars'. (3) Jonah would sacrifice. Jesus's sacrifice. Lamb. (4) Jonah was agonizing. Jesus agonizing. Gathesmane. (5) And so on and so on. Read. Comprehend. Read then use whatever language, words, expressions, pictures to comprehend. After comprehending, then you should attempt to answer the questions. But since you take these texts as random bits and pieces of information, instead of as a whole, you will go on as you have. Please proceed. Like I said I am not here to stop you from doing whatever you want to do. Knock yourself out! Sir. Nguuguu ya Wikipedia defines 'typology' thus...."Typology in Christian theology and Biblical exegesis is a doctrine or theory concerning the predictive relationship of the Old Testament to the New Testament. Events, persons or statements in the Old Testament are seen as types pre-figuring or superseded by antitypes, events or aspects of Christ or his revelation described in the New Testament. For example Jonah may be seen as the type of Christ in that he appeared to have emerged from the whale's belly and from death. When we say that someone is a type of Christ, we are saying that a person in the Old Testament behaves in a way that corresponds to Jesus’ character or actions in the New Testament. When we say that something is “typical” of Christ, we are saying that an object or event in the Old Testament can be viewed as representative of some quality of Jesus. The difference between an illustration and a type..... A type is always identified as such in the New Testament. Finding correlations between an Old Testament story and the life of Christ is simply finding illustrations, not types. In other words, typology is determined by Scripture. The Holy Spirit inspired the use of types; illustrations are the result of man’s study. For example, many people see parallels between Joseph and Jesus. The humiliation and subsequent glorification of Joseph seem to correspond to the death and resurrection of Christ. However, the New Testament never uses Joseph as a model of Christ; therefore, Joseph’s story is properly called an illustration, but not a type, of Christ. I like what Ja-kom is putting down. Love it! Typology is quite interesting. Indeed, many characters in the OT fit into typology. Certainly, reading Jonah's prayer while in the belly of the fish strikes a familiar chord with us today as we read the story of Jesus. It is no wonder then that Jesus himself identifies with that narrative. Have you heard about the story of Absalom? The one who was David's son. I think it also fits typology.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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The 'above list', dear Alphdoti, is not to create a new idea or theorem but is to show similarities between what Jonah said (as he was praying in the belly of the fish) and what Jesus went through.
You know what 'similarities' are don't you?
Short of repeating what Ja-Kom has put down again, what cannot you understand?
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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I am switching off till Monday, literally - I need to rest, literally.
See ya then.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:Then open the question to anyone whose interested in engaging you. Christian, or non Christian. Even Man God. The questions are open to anyone, according to story of Jonah (a.s) in the Bible: 1). What was the sign (miracle) of Jonah (a.s)? 2). When Jonah (a.s) was thrown into the sea, was he dead or was he alive? Hahahaha! @AlphDoti! 1. The sign is, 'a human going through death, and again coming back to life, with a message back to humans'. 2. Jonah was both dead and alive, in the belly of the fish.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Muriel wrote:I am switching off till Monday, literally - I need to rest, literally.
See ya then.
Mmm! Curious!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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@muriel where we are heading to is actually to draw similarities ( literally, not in quotes like you put, we need to use actual meanings of words in English language). And thanks for correcting me to say "saying" and not "talking". About schooling, I can tell you I went to High School when it was High school, @guka might know at times of form 6. Anyway, we are not in education context. What I don't understand is why a simple question asking you whether Jonah (a.s) was DEAD or ALIVE when they threw him overboard creates such a long lecture from you. You see you have not even answered my first question " what was that sign", and truly as I said no Christian can tell you what was that sign. If there is a problem with any of my sentences previously please say "here you've lied, here you've quoted wrongly...". That way we move on in beautiful manner like that. I'm not trying to convert you or anything, no. Just answer my questions in post #13 with "Yes" or "No". That way you'll be sincere.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Just to be in the same page with @muriel and others, let me review the statement.
Jesus (peace be upon him) said "...As Jonah was, so shall the son of man be"
Jonah was how? How was Jonah in the whole episode?
1. When he was thrown overboard, how was he? The answer is Alive!
2. In the belly of the whale as it goes around the ocean how was Jonah, dead or alive? The answer is Alive! How do we know? Because he prayed to almighty God!
3. He was vomited out on the sea shore, dead or alive? The answer is Alive!
We see: Alive! Alive! Alive!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:Just to be in the same page with @muriel and others, let me review the statement.
Jesus (peace be upon him) said "...As Jonah was, so shall the son of man be"
Jonah was how? How was Jonah in the whole episode?
1. When he was thrown overboard, how was he? The answer is Alive!
2. In the belly of the whale as it goes around the ocean how was Jonah, dead or alive? The answer is Alive! How do we know? Because he prayed to almighty God!
3. He was vomited out on the sea shore, dead or alive? The answer is Alive!
We see: Alive! Alive! Alive! Is this an evasion or what? And it has a fallacy.
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