Wazua
»
Investor
»
Economy
»
Richard Corcoran - Kenyan Tourism In Dire Straits
Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2012 Posts: 1,110
|
Jus Blazin wrote:InnovateGuy wrote:Alba wrote:Local tourism is good but foreign tourists are far more important. 1. Foreigners have far more disposable income than Kenyans. javascript:insertsmiley('  %20','/Images/Emoticons/eusa_clap.gif') 2. They inject foreign exchange into the economy which helps sustain the currency 3. They bring external money into the economy unlike the local one which just reycles local money 4. Foreigners are more likely to stay in the big expensive hotels like Hilton. 5. Foreigners are far more likely to spend big on materials like rental cars 6. Foreigners will spend on things Kenyans take for granted. Even visiting Kibera once became a tourist attraction 7. And many other points..................
You've said it better than me. Shindeni hapo putting all your hopes on mzungu. That's ukoloni mamboleo. And as you do that, other sectors of the economy are raking in billions of shillings in profits from the very same Kenyans. So we are doing so well in domestic tourism such that we can say bye bye to foreign tourists? That's new to me. Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2008 Posts: 3,966
|
InnovateGuy wrote:Jus Blazin wrote:InnovateGuy wrote:Alba wrote:Local tourism is good but foreign tourists are far more important. 1. Foreigners have far more disposable income than Kenyans. javascript:insertsmiley(' %20','/Images/Emoticons/eusa_clap.gif') 2. They inject foreign exchange into the economy which helps sustain the currency 3. They bring external money into the economy unlike the local one which just reycles local money 4. Foreigners are more likely to stay in the big expensive hotels like Hilton. 5. Foreigners are far more likely to spend big on materials like rental cars 6. Foreigners will spend on things Kenyans take for granted. Even visiting Kibera once became a tourist attraction 7. And many other points..................
You've said it better than me. Shindeni hapo putting all your hopes on mzungu. That's ukoloni mamboleo. And as you do that, other sectors of the economy are raking in billions of shillings in profits from the very same Kenyans. So we are doing so well in domestic tourism such that we can say bye bye to foreign tourists? That's new to me. I think you are getting it all wrong. And it's good to read what someone is writing. We've always focused on foreign tourism to the point that if the tourists don't come due to factors like insecurity or financial meltdown, we are really affected. Yet, we can BUFFER such threats to the tourism industry by increasing focus too on domestic tourism. We aren't doing so well in domestic tourism. Learn to read. Learn to understand the point. Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2012 Posts: 1,110
|
Jus Blazin wrote:InnovateGuy wrote:Jus Blazin wrote:InnovateGuy wrote:Alba wrote:Local tourism is good but foreign tourists are far more important. 1. Foreigners have far more disposable income than Kenyans. javascript:insertsmiley(' %20','/Images/Emoticons/eusa_clap.gif') 2. They inject foreign exchange into the economy which helps sustain the currency 3. They bring external money into the economy unlike the local one which just reycles local money 4. Foreigners are more likely to stay in the big expensive hotels like Hilton. 5. Foreigners are far more likely to spend big on materials like rental cars 6. Foreigners will spend on things Kenyans take for granted. Even visiting Kibera once became a tourist attraction 7. And many other points..................
You've said it better than me. Shindeni hapo putting all your hopes on mzungu. That's ukoloni mamboleo. And as you do that, other sectors of the economy are raking in billions of shillings in profits from the very same Kenyans. So we are doing so well in domestic tourism such that we can say bye bye to foreign tourists? That's new to me. I think you are getting it all wrong. And it's good to read what someone is writing. We've always focused on foreign tourism to the point that if the tourists don't come due to factors like insecurity or financial meltdown, we are really affected. Yet, we can BUFFER such threats to the tourism industry by increasing focus too on domestic tourism. We aren't doing so well in domestic tourism. Learn to read. Learn to understand the point.
Your problem exactly.
I've asked a question. Domestic tourists be substitute for foreign tourists? Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
|
Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:washiku wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:InnovateGuy wrote:Jus Blazin wrote:Prop up domestic tourism. The Mara is not the only place to go. We need Kenyans visiting the Nairobi National Park that is just next door to many, or the likes of Ol Donyo Sabuk, etc. When we rely mainly on international tourists, we are bound to be affected by the shocks. But sisi Wakenya tuko hapa.
There's something called spending power. At this level of our economy, we would rather spend our money surviving than spend on holidays. We spend our Kshs. buying food, paying rent, fueling our Japanese cars and helping relatives in shagz. We have Ksh. 0 to spend on trips to Mombasa, Mara and other places. Only few Kenyans can afford holidays - no matter how many millions you spend on advertising. Spending power it is.
There was talk of going East and yada yada. Have you seen Chinese tourists in Kenya? Those guys spend nothing. Not even a 500 ML bottle of soda. They just walk around with cameras taking pictures and smiling sheepishly. Compare them to the jungus. The jungus spend on food, cabz, drinks and tip the waiter. If the number of tourists is falling, KQ suffers, so does the taxi guy, the prostitute, the waiter na kadhalika.
***
Continue giving bad advice to jubilee. You will say afadhali KANU. The number of Chinese Tourists in Kenya has been growing tremendously and they are not only coming to Kenya but everywhere else including Paris NY and Australia. Everyone is courting the Chinese upcoming middo crass, they are the ones with the money. I was reading in the Nation that the Chinese were leading in the number of tourists who visited the Maasai Mara 2013 to witness the annual wildebeest migration In 2013 Over 100 Million Chinese left China to tour the world 1% of that number is a million. I wonder why we focus our energy elsewhere @ kipchirchir, don't confuse prisoners who are working on Chinese funded infrastructure projects in kenya to be tourists . Some of those Chinese tourists roast maize in nairobi and the ones who visit our parks are poachers  Hater @Swenani...those prisoners are BRINGING money in the economy even if they roast maize. As for poachers, the last time I checked guys were blaming some GOK employees kwani the theory now has changed? @Kipchirchir, At they are bringing what in the economy? Do you know chinese are very mean.They would rather share a three bedroomed house 12 people and buy a nissan caravan and have one of them as a driver.That is lost income for 24 kenyans if it were americans or british since they will employ 12 drivers and rent 12 houses. The GOK employees are just facilitators,the same people who process those business/work permits for the shinese are the same ones offering protection to the shinese and doing the dirty job ABK "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
|
Jus Blazin wrote:InnovateGuy wrote:Alba wrote:Local tourism is good but foreign tourists are far more important. 1. Foreigners have far more disposable income than Kenyans. javascript:insertsmiley(' %20','/Images/Emoticons/eusa_clap.gif') 2. They inject foreign exchange into the economy which helps sustain the currency 3. They bring external money into the economy unlike the local one which just reycles local money 4. Foreigners are more likely to stay in the big expensive hotels like Hilton. 5. Foreigners are far more likely to spend big on materials like rental cars 6. Foreigners will spend on things Kenyans take for granted. Even visiting Kibera once became a tourist attraction 7. And many other points..................
You've said it better than me. Shindeni hapo putting all your hopes on mzungu. That's ukoloni mamboleo. And as you do that, other sectors of the economy are raking in billions of shillings in profits from the very same Kenyans. Blind nationalism gets us nowhere. Every country including the USA and UK are eager for foreign tourists. And these are countries with huge middle classes. It has nothing to do with Ukoloni. Most Kenyans will be glad to get tourists from any country even Ethiopia or Australia or Mexico. There are rich people in every country and Kenya needs forex. There is a reason why when tourist numbers are tallied, only foreign tourists are counted. So when you hear that France received 83 million tourists in 2012, that number is only foreign tourists and not domestic. And believe it or not, potential look at those numbers when deciding where to go. The logic is that " If so many foreigners are visiting France then it must be a good place to visit".
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2008 Posts: 3,966
|
InnovateGuy wrote:Jus Blazin wrote:InnovateGuy wrote:Jus Blazin wrote:InnovateGuy wrote:Alba wrote:Local tourism is good but foreign tourists are far more important. 1. Foreigners have far more disposable income than Kenyans. javascript:insertsmiley(' %20','/Images/Emoticons/eusa_clap.gif') 2. They inject foreign exchange into the economy which helps sustain the currency 3. They bring external money into the economy unlike the local one which just reycles local money 4. Foreigners are more likely to stay in the big expensive hotels like Hilton. 5. Foreigners are far more likely to spend big on materials like rental cars 6. Foreigners will spend on things Kenyans take for granted. Even visiting Kibera once became a tourist attraction 7. And many other points..................
You've said it better than me. Shindeni hapo putting all your hopes on mzungu. That's ukoloni mamboleo. And as you do that, other sectors of the economy are raking in billions of shillings in profits from the very same Kenyans. So we are doing so well in domestic tourism such that we can say bye bye to foreign tourists? That's new to me. I think you are getting it all wrong. And it's good to read what someone is writing. We've always focused on foreign tourism to the point that if the tourists don't come due to factors like insecurity or financial meltdown, we are really affected. Yet, we can BUFFER such threats to the tourism industry by increasing focus too on domestic tourism. We aren't doing so well in domestic tourism. Learn to read. Learn to understand the point.
Your problem exactly.
I've asked a question. Domestic tourists be substitute for foreign tourists? No one has talked of substitute. Here's the meaning of the word BUFFER: "a means or device used as a cushion against the shock of fluctuations in business or financial activity". Quote:The development of domestic tourism should not be regarded as antagonistic or alternative to international tourism; these two forms of tourism are different to be sure, but they complement each other closely and one should not be neglected in favour of the other.
That is precisely my point. Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/9/2008 Posts: 5,389
|
InnovateGuy wrote:Jus Blazin wrote:InnovateGuy wrote:Jus Blazin wrote:InnovateGuy wrote:Alba wrote:Local tourism is good but foreign tourists are far more important. 1. Foreigners have far more disposable income than Kenyans. javascript:insertsmiley(' %20','/Images/Emoticons/eusa_clap.gif') 2. They inject foreign exchange into the economy which helps sustain the currency 3. They bring external money into the economy unlike the local one which just reycles local money 4. Foreigners are more likely to stay in the big expensive hotels like Hilton. 5. Foreigners are far more likely to spend big on materials like rental cars 6. Foreigners will spend on things Kenyans take for granted. Even visiting Kibera once became a tourist attraction 7. And many other points..................
You've said it better than me. Shindeni hapo putting all your hopes on mzungu. That's ukoloni mamboleo. And as you do that, other sectors of the economy are raking in billions of shillings in profits from the very same Kenyans. So we are doing so well in domestic tourism such that we can say bye bye to foreign tourists? That's new to me. I think you are getting it all wrong. And it's good to read what someone is writing. We've always focused on foreign tourism to the point that if the tourists don't come due to factors like insecurity or financial meltdown, we are really affected. Yet, we can BUFFER such threats to the tourism industry by increasing focus too on domestic tourism. We aren't doing so well in domestic tourism. Learn to read. Learn to understand the point.
Your problem exactly.
I've asked a question. Domestic tourists be substitute for foreign tourists? The hoteliers/tour operators should target both categories such that as @JB has said, if foreign tourists can't come eg like current situation due to financial crisis and terrorism fears, the locals can take the operators through the lean times. After all as a hotelier/tour operator, your business is to "sell rooms/food, and safaris" and as long as you get clients who can afford, irrespective of whether they are foreign or local, your business is ok. Though more foreigners mean more forex into the economy.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2008 Posts: 3,966
|
Alba wrote:Jus Blazin wrote:InnovateGuy wrote:Alba wrote:Local tourism is good but foreign tourists are far more important. 1. Foreigners have far more disposable income than Kenyans. javascript:insertsmiley(' %20','/Images/Emoticons/eusa_clap.gif') 2. They inject foreign exchange into the economy which helps sustain the currency 3. They bring external money into the economy unlike the local one which just reycles local money 4. Foreigners are more likely to stay in the big expensive hotels like Hilton. 5. Foreigners are far more likely to spend big on materials like rental cars 6. Foreigners will spend on things Kenyans take for granted. Even visiting Kibera once became a tourist attraction 7. And many other points..................
You've said it better than me. Shindeni hapo putting all your hopes on mzungu. That's ukoloni mamboleo. And as you do that, other sectors of the economy are raking in billions of shillings in profits from the very same Kenyans. Blind nationalism gets us nowhere. Every country including the USA and UK are eager for foreign tourists. And these are countries with huge middle classes. It has nothing to do with Ukoloni. Most Kenyans will be glad to get tourists from any country even Ethiopia or Australia or Mexico. There are rich people in every country and Kenya needs forex. There is a reason why when tourist numbers are tallied, only foreign tourists are counted. So when you hear that France received 83 million tourists in 2012, that number is only foreign tourists and not domestic. And believe it or not, potential look at those numbers when deciding where to go. The logic is that " If so many foreigners are visiting France then it must be a good place to visit". Have a look at this then revert. Europeans spend 77 % of their holiday trips in their own country And this: Quote:With more than 225 millions of trips in 2011, France is an interesting market regard to tourism. However, if three quarters of the population travel once a year, French tourists like to travel within France. In fact with its various landscape and climate, France provides a large choice for the tourists, therefore domestic tourism rates is high. Meaning, though France still wants more foreign tourists coming in, more than the 83m, it still has a huge appetite for domestic tourism. So as we think that Kenyan tourism is in dire straits, it also opens an opportunity. That's what is called Pareto efficiency. Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
|
No one is saying that domestic tourists should be disregarded. We are saying that foreign tourism is far more important. That is a fact.
And France has a far larger middle class and wealthy class. So their domestic tourism is far more lucrative.
Who are we kidding ? If foreign tourism stalls, they may as well close 70% of tourism establishments in Kenya, especially those in remote areas like Samburu national park.
Sorry but Kenyans will not suddenly become interested in visiting Samburu in large enough numbers to sustain it.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/9/2008 Posts: 5,389
|
The sad thing is that those hotels and camps would rather close down than adjust their rates downwards (or market their products) to serve local tourists. One would think that collecting half the money (from local tourists) would be better than no money at all. But anyway we can't blame them if they set up business to exclusively serve foreign tourists, so when there are no foreign tourists, the "logical" thing would be to close until the economy in Europe improves........... and the al shabaab are obliterated.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2008 Posts: 3,966
|
Alba wrote:No one is saying that domestic tourists should be disregarded. We are saying that foreign tourism is far more important. That is a fact.
And France has a far larger middle class and wealthy class. So their domestic tourism is far more lucrative.
Who are we kidding ? If foreign tourism stalls, they may as well close 70% of tourism establishments in Kenya, especially those in remote areas like Samburu national park.
Sorry but Kenyans will not suddenly become interested in visiting Samburu in large enough numbers to sustain it. Irony in your statements. Closing 70% is disregard of domestic tourism. And you saying that foreign tourism is far more important reminds me of the thread on art caffe. The waiters and waitresses feel the mzungu is far more important than the local coz he tips better... (See it in context) As @juggernaut said, it's sad. I rest my case. Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
|
|
|
Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
|
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/9/2008 Posts: 5,389
|
Then ISOKEI if it's better to close than reduce rates from 25k to 15k per person per day.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
|
Jus Blazin wrote:Alba wrote:No one is saying that domestic tourists should be disregarded. We are saying that foreign tourism is far more important. That is a fact.
And France has a far larger middle class and wealthy class. So their domestic tourism is far more lucrative.
Who are we kidding ? If foreign tourism stalls, they may as well close 70% of tourism establishments in Kenya, especially those in remote areas like Samburu national park.
Sorry but Kenyans will not suddenly become interested in visiting Samburu in large enough numbers to sustain it. Irony in your statements. Closing 70% is disregard of domestic tourism. And you saying that foreign tourism is far more important reminds me of the thread on art caffe. The waiters and waitresses feel the mzungu is far more important than the local coz he tips better... (See it in context) As @juggernaut said, it's sad. I rest my case. @JB, you are completely missing the point, what we are saying is that local tourism cannot replace foreign tourism, they are 2 very differnet markets, albeit buying th esame thing. Let me give you 2 hypothetical scenarios: A tourist, lands at JKIA, spends the night at the Hilton, books a tourvan to the Mara where he enjoys the wildebeest. Now compare to you: You wake up from your house in Nai, drive your car to the mara where you enjoy the wildebeest migration. The value chains for these two mara tourists are however very different, the tourist will spend on a tour operator, KQ air ticket, night at the Hilton, tour van and finally the Mara. You on the other hand will spend on the gate charges at the Mara and the hotel. So who is more important here for our economy? "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2008 Posts: 3,966
|
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:Jus Blazin wrote:Alba wrote:No one is saying that domestic tourists should be disregarded. We are saying that foreign tourism is far more important. That is a fact.
And France has a far larger middle class and wealthy class. So their domestic tourism is far more lucrative.
Who are we kidding ? If foreign tourism stalls, they may as well close 70% of tourism establishments in Kenya, especially those in remote areas like Samburu national park.
Sorry but Kenyans will not suddenly become interested in visiting Samburu in large enough numbers to sustain it. Irony in your statements. Closing 70% is disregard of domestic tourism. And you saying that foreign tourism is far more important reminds me of the thread on art caffe. The waiters and waitresses feel the mzungu is far more important than the local coz he tips better... (See it in context) As @juggernaut said, it's sad. I rest my case. @JB, you are completely missing the point, what we are saying is that local tourism cannot replace foreign tourism, they are 2 very differnet markets, albeit buying th esame thing. Let me give you 2 hypothetical scenarios: A tourist, lands at JKIA, spends the night at the Hilton, books a tourvan to the Mara where he enjoys the wildebeest. Now compare to you: You wake up from your house in Nai, drive your car to the mara where you enjoy the wildebeest migration. The value chains for these two mara tourists are however very different, the tourist will spend on a tour operator, KQ air ticket, night at the Hilton, tour van and finally the Mara. You on the other hand will spend on the gate charges at the Mara and the hotel. So who is more important here for our economy? @Obi, I didn't say domestic tourism can replace foreign tourism, I just suggested there should be increased focus on domestic tourism to mitigate against foreign tourism shocks (FT is evidently very important). I quoted this yesterday. "The development of domestic tourism should not be regarded as an alternative to international tourism; these two forms of tourism are different to be sure, but they complement each other closely and one should not be neglected in favour of the other." Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
|
|
|
Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
|
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/8/2013 Posts: 2,517
|
"😖😡KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder 😏😏 " overheard in Wazua
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
|
Some Hotels not only at the coast but also across the Country routinely close down during the low season. So this is not unique to 2014! There is no denying that the tourism sector has experienced a slump in the last couple of months but that doesn't mean we hype things up by way of passing only skewed information. Dunia ni msongamano..
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
|
Tourism/Travel annual awards, which have been described as “the Oscars of the travel industry”Quote:Diani Beach on the Kenyan coast has been voted the best beach destination in Africa.
Another winner from the Coast region was the Sarova Whitesands Beach Resort & Spa, which was voted as the continent’s leading eco-hotel.
A similar honour went to the Sarova Shaba Game Lodge in Samburu, northern Kenya, which was voted Africa’s leading eco-lodge and the world famous Masai Mara whichwas lauded as Africa’s leading national park.
The Leopard Beach Resort & Spa in Diani was also voted Africa’s leading spa resort. This was the second year in a row that the resort has won the award. The establishment was also voted Kenya’s leading beach resort.
In the safari camp segment, Gamewatchers Safaris and Porini Camps were named as the top performers in the continent. Porini manages exclusive safaris and has camps in the Mara and Amboseli parks and also runs camps in conservancies such as Ol-Pejeta.
Twiga Tours and Abercrombie & Kent rounded up the Kenyan companies that emerged tops in the continent in the responsible tourism and luxury safaris categories.
In all, Kenya tied with South Africa with highest number of winning tourism companies in Africa, at 17 while Morocco had 14, followed by Nigeria with eight
Dunia ni msongamano..
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
|
B.Timer wrote:
Some Hotels not only at the coast but also across the Country routinely close down during the low season.
So this is not unique to 2014!
There is no denying that the tourism sector has experienced a slump in the last couple of months but that doesn't mean we hype things up by way of passing only skewed information.
This should actually be the high season. Low season is usually March-July. Life is short. Live passionately.
|
|
|
Wazua
»
Investor
»
Economy
»
Richard Corcoran - Kenyan Tourism In Dire Straits
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
|