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guru267
#51 Posted : Monday, March 24, 2014 10:53:41 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Those advocating for a heavy hand on Islam I ask, how well has that strategy worked for the Americans??

Do we also want to be pulling out of Somalia 13 years from now with no victory in sight and thousands of innocent Kenyans dead??

The time for negotiating with terrorists should be considered!
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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poundfoolish
#52 Posted : Monday, March 24, 2014 11:02:01 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
Pedes wrote:
kollabo wrote:
Makaburi is so free out there. He shouts whatsoever he wants. Lets admit it. Kenya's Islamic political and civil society caucus is that powerful. Islamic rights now take precedence over your human rights.


Me thinks Makaburi is good for TV shows. The dangerous ones are quickly dispatched for they are the ones that are good at radicalization.


Well said.. The dangerous ones are dispatched pap!
There are two reasons in intelligence realms why Makaburi is roaming free.
1. He is already a sellout to the group
2. He is a perfect pawn. When they, recruits and radicals, coalesce around him as he is already established. It is easier to keep tabs on the organisation in Kenya. As a de facto leader, things would be revolving around him. easier for the intelligence services to monitor.
Once he becomes irrelevant....
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Pedes
#53 Posted : Monday, March 24, 2014 11:18:48 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/30/2013
Posts: 659
guru267 wrote:
Those advocating for a heavy hand on Islam I ask, how well has that strategy worked for the Americans??

Do we also want to be pulling out of Somalia 13 years from now with no victory in sight and thousands of innocent Kenyans dead??

The time for negotiating with terrorists should be considered!


One way that the Americans have been able to deal with Islamic Fundamentalism is through diversion, that is making sure that it does not occur in their homeland. They have "given" them other targets that they feel that by hitting they are hitting the U.S. e.g. Kenya, U.A.E. I am wondering is that what Kenya is trying to achieve by promoting the Jubaland govt?
If you stay ready, no need to get ready.
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Robinhood
#54 Posted : Monday, March 24, 2014 11:34:56 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 2,306
guru267 wrote:
Those advocating for a heavy hand on Islam I ask, how well has that strategy worked for the Americans??

Do we also want to be pulling out of Somalia 13 years from now with no victory in sight and thousands of innocent Kenyans dead??

The time for negotiating with terrorists should be considered!


Reeeeaaaalllly?The Pakistani's have tried this endlessley with the Pakistani taliban and the more they negotiate, the more the taliban kills the innocent. How do you negotiate with someone who thinks you should be dead, or that your version of Islam is crap, or that they are doing their god a favor by killing you. How do you negotiate with such.

Negotiations are for those who are willing to give and take. Are these guys willing to compromise on anything?

The American strategy has never been of compromise, but of drones. Drones don't negotiate. WHAM! it goes, and the world is one terrorist safer. It may not finish all terrorists, but America has had no major attack since 911. I would vote for this strategy anytime

Even the Pakistan military once in while get tired of talking and kicks the idiots proper, only for sympathizers in politics to quickly call for dialogue. Then the cycle begins again
Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
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Kratos
#55 Posted : Monday, March 24, 2014 11:39:40 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 1,694
Robinhood wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Those advocating for a heavy hand on Islam I ask, how well has that strategy worked for the Americans??

Do we also want to be pulling out of Somalia 13 years from now with no victory in sight and thousands of innocent Kenyans dead??

The time for negotiating with terrorists should be considered!


Reeeeaaaalllly?The Pakistani's have tried this endlessley with the Pakistani taliban and the more they negotiate, the more the taliban kills the innocent. How do you negotiate with someone who thinks you should be dead, or that your version of Islam is crap, or that they are doing their god a favor by killing you. How do you negotiate with such.

Negotiations are for those who are willing to give and take. Are these guys willing to compromise on anything?

The American strategy has never been of compromise, but of drones. Drones don't negotiate. WHAM! it goes, and the world is one terrorist safer. It may not finish all terrorists, but America has had no major attack since 911. I would vote for this strategy anytime

Even the Pakistan military once in while get tired of talking and kicks the idiots proper, only for sympathizers in politics to quickly call for dialogue. Then the cycle begins again


What are the demands from these terrorists that we should "negotitate". Furthermore isn't there a more civil way to put forward grieveiances other than killing innocent church goers?

“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
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kollabo
#56 Posted : Monday, March 24, 2014 11:46:55 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/3/2012
Posts: 1,317
poundfoolish wrote:
Pedes wrote:
kollabo wrote:
Makaburi is so free out there. He shouts whatsoever he wants. Lets admit it. Kenya's Islamic political and civil society caucus is that powerful. Islamic rights now take precedence over your human rights.


Me thinks Makaburi is good for TV shows. The dangerous ones are quickly dispatched for they are the ones that are good at radicalization.


Well said.. The dangerous ones are dispatched pap!
There are two reasons in intelligence realms why Makaburi is roaming free.
1. He is already a sellout to the group
2. He is a perfect pawn. When they, recruits and radicals, coalesce around him as he is already established. It is easier to keep tabs on the organisation in Kenya. As a de facto leader, things would be revolving around him. easier for the intelligence services to monitor.
Once he becomes irrelevant....


People are dead including innocent children in church. Does this make sense to you?
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jaggernaut
#57 Posted : Monday, March 24, 2014 11:48:36 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
An "eye for an eye" strategy should be adopted. It's the only way to stop the frequent attacks.
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poundfoolish
#58 Posted : Monday, March 24, 2014 11:51:12 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
kollabo wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
Pedes wrote:
kollabo wrote:
Makaburi is so free out there. He shouts whatsoever he wants. Lets admit it. Kenya's Islamic political and civil society caucus is that powerful. Islamic rights now take precedence over your human rights.


Me thinks Makaburi is good for TV shows. The dangerous ones are quickly dispatched for they are the ones that are good at radicalization.


Well said.. The dangerous ones are dispatched pap!
There are two reasons in intelligence realms why Makaburi is roaming free.
1. He is already a sellout to the group
2. He is a perfect pawn. When they, recruits and radicals, coalesce around him as he is already established. It is easier to keep tabs on the organisation in Kenya. As a de facto leader, things would be revolving around him. easier for the intelligence services to monitor.
Once he becomes irrelevant....


People are dead including innocent children in church. Does this make sense to you?


Do you know how many would be dead if you didnt know your enemy or kept surveillance on him?

There is a reason why they call it intelligence service and not reactionary service...
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Rahatupu
#59 Posted : Monday, March 24, 2014 11:52:32 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
ecstacy wrote:
guru267 wrote:
So what will attacking mosques achieve... Islamophobia is reaching new levels is being driven by these terrorists!

I think the last thing we should want is the moderates to get involved in this...


What is lacking from the Muslim leadership locally is a clear, firm, unconditional condemnation of these criminal acts committed in the name of their religion.

In this gap, you then watch news features of 'Sheiks' openly supporting or sympathizing with terrorists.

I agree, high handed police tactics, profiling etc do seem to target Muslims but let us face it, these criminals have a common denominator for religion.

It is very very very very important the local muslim leadership is not seen to be sympathetic to criminal acts.


@Ecstasy, Nowhere has moderation (if there is such a thing) succeeded in defeating terrorism, only "heavy handed police" and extra legal tactics have.
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poundfoolish
#60 Posted : Monday, March 24, 2014 11:54:32 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
jaggernaut wrote:
An "eye for an eye" strategy should be adopted. It's the only way to stop the frequent attacks.


You cannot fight an ideology with force alone...
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