Wazua
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Home owners stare at Sh16bn losses
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/9/2008 Posts: 5,389
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a4architect.com wrote:alma wrote:I agree that it makes bad economic sense to destroy such beautiful houses. A lot of money would be lost.
BUT
The issue is not the economy here. The issue is illegality.
The people who bought these properties bought them ILLEGALLY. They are part of the problem.
A country where everyone looks the other way even when they can suspect that something is wrong. After all, they will have "professionals" like ak supporting their ILLEGALITY.
If you buy land in Kenya you should do a thorough search. 90% of Kenyan land buyers depend on people like AK and lawyers to do the right thing. I guess you can now see what the "professionals" think.
When "professionals" go around supporting illegality you wonder if ethics was ever taught in school.
The owners of these illegal properties have a way forward. Sue everyone who's involved. Thats the decent thing to do.
BUT
They won't.
They will ask Sonko to tell parliament to support their ILLEGAL occupation of land.
So NO. I feel nothing for them. They should be demolished. Just as the syokimau ones.
I'm 100% sure that the owners of syokimau land will never buy land based on the approval of architects like a4. @alma, my issue is only within architectural/planning spheres.For legality issues, am not an expert on this. Are these lands prime and ready for development? If they are, government should then lay down the legal process for the lands to move from whichever govt owner to the developers. Am not an expert in legal issues so i cant comment on the legality of this. My arguments are within architectural/planning issues on whether the lands are being utilised well or not. The kevivapi land is simply not being utilised well if used as agricultural. The legal process of transfer of lands from Government to the private sector is best understood by a property lawyer, not an architect. If the transfer was illegal, then so be it. Even if illegal, fact remains that the lands were being utilised badly as agricultural and the developments are better land use. How can you dictate to someone how he should use his own land? And FYI Kevevapi is tasked with producing vaccines for all the livestock in the country. It's more of a pharmaceutical factory. Of course they need land to develop and test their vaccines and build their laboratories as part of their R&D. Land is also required for future expansion since these institution will still be serving the livestock sector 20, 50, 100, 200, 500yrs etc from now. The value of those vaccines to the national economy and livestock sector is worth more than those 600 houses that have been put there. Also if the likes of Coopers, Wellcome, ILRI are also producing vaccines within the city in their huge campuses and think it's worthwhile, why not KEVEVAPI?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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a4architect.com wrote:@alma, why call innocent people dumb? Thats disrespectful. Since both of us dont understand the legal situation regarding the conveyancing, its pointless to discuss the legality of the sale. Lets keep to the viability of whether kevevapi should continue using the land as agricultural or resell the remaining 70 acres to developers.
Am sure they did carry out searches and since the deal was done by a commissioner of lands, the serches were positive. Even Jesus said no one is innocent. They did not do a proper search. Even you have accepted that you would not help them do one. It is their responsibility to ensure that their investments are proper. That is not my responsibility. These are just like investors at the NSE. When akina Guru are selling a junk stock here on wazua, do you think they think that you the buyer are innocent or dumb? Now you want them to continue with their dumbness by telling them to accept and move on. Their property will never be taken and such. I say, they will be dumb and dumber if they don't become proactive before the bulldozers come on our TV screens. Then there is dumb, dumber and dumbest. Someone thinking that I as a tax payer should continue paying for an illegal act simply because 16 billion is sitting in lawyers and architects pockets. Apana.... Kama mwenye shamba amekuja, watu wangolewe. Ili iwe funzo. I thought syokimau and runda had taught kenyans a lesson. Apparently more lessons are required. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2008 Posts: 3,966
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alma wrote:a4architect.com wrote:@alma, why call innocent people dumb? Thats disrespectful. Since both of us dont understand the legal situation regarding the conveyancing, its pointless to discuss the legality of the sale. Lets keep to the viability of whether kevevapi should continue using the land as agricultural or resell the remaining 70 acres to developers.
Am sure they did carry out searches and since the deal was done by a commissioner of lands, the serches were positive. Even Jesus said no one is innocent. They did not do a proper search. Even you have accepted that you would not help them do one. It is their responsibility to ensure that their investments are proper. That is not my responsibility. These are just like investors at the NSE. When akina Guru are selling a junk stock here on wazua, do you think they think that you the buyer are innocent or dumb? Now you want them to continue with their dumbness by telling them to accept and move on. Their property will never be taken and such. I say, they will be dumb and dumber if they don't become proactive before the bulldozers come on our TV screens. Then there is dumb, dumber and dumbest. Someone thinking that I as a tax payer should continue paying for an illegal act simply because 16 billion is sitting in lawyers and architects pockets. Apana.... Kama mwenye shamba amekuja, watu wangolewe. Ili iwe funzo. I thought syokimau and runda had taught kenyans a lesson. Apparently more lessons are required. Couldn't agree more. Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@jaggernaut, do you know the meaning of dictate? What i have done above is called a suggestion. Government DICTATES to everyone how they use their land through the physical planners. They dont give you a choice. If you own land in the cbd for example, you cant put up a nice bungalow/maisonette coz you own it. You must develop a commercial highrise property. Calculate to me the value of the vaccines.How did you conclude that this value is higher than for the real estate development? At least the value of the development is already given as 16 billion. Where have i said that kevevapi should stop producing vaccines?Kevevapi can continue to produce vaccines. They own thousands of land around nairobi eg from shade hotel all the way to ngong town. I now appreciate lawyers and judges whose work is to argue . I dont think i can have the patience to argue all day where the other party cant understand very basic logic. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2008 Posts: 3,966
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a4architect.com wrote:alma wrote:If Prof. Swazuri saw your post above he's start laughing.
The issue of original owners of Kenyan land doesnt arise anywhere. There was a law when this kevevapi land was said to have been sold. It was broken by someone.
That someone should be in court right now together with the professionals who helped him in this alleged fraud. Apana maneno ya africans and mzungus here.
The commisioner of lands only comes in when land is LEGALLY sold. Not ILLEGALLY.
This is a case for the Kenya police apana maneno of accepting and moving on. Man if these property owners listen to your professional advice they deserve to be conned all their lives.
You come try play a game like that on me and utajuwa malenge ni nyama. @alma, the deal was done by comissioner of lands @jus blazin just criticising without facts and being part of a lynch mob supporting demolishing of innocent people's houses to me reeks of jealousy. The facts are right there. If land has been acquired illegally and the original owner is complaining... Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2008 Posts: 3,966
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And I still say, your focus on this whole debate is on real estate development, based on your profession. Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/12/2006 Posts: 1,554
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alma wrote:a4architect.com wrote:@alma, why call innocent people dumb? Thats disrespectful. Since both of us dont understand the legal situation regarding the conveyancing, its pointless to discuss the legality of the sale. Lets keep to the viability of whether kevevapi should continue using the land as agricultural or resell the remaining 70 acres to developers.
Am sure they did carry out searches and since the deal was done by a commissioner of lands, the serches were positive. Even Jesus said no one is innocent. They did not do a proper search. Even you have accepted that you would not help them do one. It is their responsibility to ensure that their investments are proper. That is not my responsibility. These are just like investors at the NSE. When akina Guru are selling a junk stock here on wazua, do you think they think that you the buyer are innocent or dumb? Now you want them to continue with their dumbness by telling them to accept and move on. Their property will never be taken and such. I say, they will be dumb and dumber if they don't become proactive before the bulldozers come on our TV screens. Then there is dumb, dumber and dumbest. Someone thinking that I as a tax payer should continue paying for an illegal act simply because 16 billion is sitting in lawyers and architects pockets. Apana.... Kama mwenye shamba amekuja, watu wangolewe. Ili iwe funzo. I thought syokimau and runda had taught kenyans a lesson. Apparently more lessons are required. If they only read the Ndungu report all the facts are there....and these achitects, lawyers, surveyors, valuers have the report they have read it but advised thier clients to commit thiers funds to the pyramid scheme.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@jus blazin, regarding the facts as to the sale of the land, for the umpteenth time, am repeating, none of us here know or have the details. All we can do is speculate. Lets keep debate on the feasibility of land use as residential compared to land use as agricultural. If you want to debate about the legality of this, you can start another thread. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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It is also appropriate if the heading for this topic was changed. The value of these houses is not 16 billion. Value is percieved and is dependant on what you could probably sell at market rates. Right now, those houses cannot be sold. Who will this dumbiestest investor be who buys those houses now. Those houses cannot even be sold at cost at this time. The total value lost is exactly 0ksh. After all, they did not own any legal title to transfer. To show you how dumb they were. They bought a house for 10 million. but the total value of their title was 0ksh. Tafakari hayo. But I say they can still get their cost of 10 million back if they become proactive. If they wait for bulldozers their value will be ksh. 0 minus the cost of their TV's, bed's, chairs etc. I do hope one of them is reading this and doing something about it not saying. Oh we are different. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/12/2006 Posts: 1,554
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Yesterday Ndungu himself was on k24 on the same issue, he stated his report mentions the said land having been acquired irregulaly. This report was presented before the developer moved to site.
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