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Home owners stare at Sh16bn losses
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/12/2006 Posts: 1,554
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a4architect.com wrote:if we look at the bigger, national picture, jkia and kevivapi should relocate. This decision is to the discretion of government planners. If i was to advice govt, that is what i would like to see. Other large government lands around nairobi except forests and environment sensitive areas should also relocate and the land allocated to developers. This will save us infrastrucure monies. @a4a.com wouldnt jkia need infrastructure wherever it will relocate to? Your argument seems to imply that govt institutions do not need infrastructure...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/9/2008 Posts: 5,389
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Jamani wrote:a4architect.com wrote:if we look at the bigger, national picture, jkia and kevivapi should relocate. This decision is to the discretion of government planners. If i was to advice govt, that is what i would like to see. Other large government lands around nairobi except forests and environment sensitive areas should also relocate and the land allocated to developers. This will save us infrastrucure monies. @a4a.com wouldnt jkia need infrastructure wherever it will relocate to? Your argument seems to imply that govt institutions do not need infrastructure... Soon he will recommend that Nairobi school, Kenya High, St Georges etc be relocated to kamulu since they are sitting on hundreds of acres of prime land. And that the animals at Nairobi National park be moved to masai mara and the land allocated to developers.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@jagernaut, in developed countries where land use planning is taken seriously, schools in urban areas are taxed heavily to compensate for hoarding developed prime land. Patch n changez, with hundreds of acres, fall in this category. These schools can then expand,upgrade into colleges and universities to compensate. jkia has caused ruai ,utawala and syokimau to have only 2 levels of building height due to flight path. This in turn has caused for nairobi to expand hence using more land and more tax payer money on unnecessary infrastructure. This doesnt sit well with the environment and kenyas budget. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/12/2006 Posts: 1,554
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a4architect.com wrote:@jagernaut, in developed countries where land use planning is taken seriously, schools in urban areas are taxed heavily to compensate for hoarding developed prime land. Patch n changez, with hundreds of acres, fall in this category. These schools can then expand,upgrade into colleges and universities to compensate. jkia has caused ruai ,utawala and syokimau to have only 2 levels of building height due to flight path. This in turn has caused for nairobi to expand hence using more land and more tax payer money on unnecessary infrastructure. This doesnt sit well with the environment and kenyas budget. A4a.com, you proposed JKIA be moved to konza.... Being an architect I bet you have seen the proposed architectural designs for konza ? then read your story above on utawala and ruai...
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@jamani, i supposed you saw our debate about konza viability in previous posts. My argument then was that konza is not feasible. This argument came to pass sometime early this year on what i had predicted. http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...spx?g=posts&t=24882
I can predict to you that those glossy pictures of skyscrapers will not stand at konza within the next 40 to 50 years. Konza will be a city in the next 40 to 50 years or so. If Jkia is moved to konza, this is a good area for height restriction since population is still low. In the next 40 to 50 years, architects and planners who will take over after us will advise that jkia is shifted from konza to mtito andei. Its high time kenyans started to see the bigger picture and move from the self to decisions that benefit the country as a whole. This is how developed countries eg usa, china, russia and europe work. Major decisions are left to professionals who decide for the benefit of the whole country. The lynch mob psychology seen with kenyans will not take us far as a country. Demolisions in syokimau and the threat to demolision in the kevivapi land to me are wrong and not beneficial to our economy. @Jamani and @jaggernaut, i supposed you also will be happy when your tax payer money doesnt go to duplicate infrastructure, when you can live near nairobi cbd, when land is available for developers near nairobi hence lower rents etc. If such is beneficial to you, you have no choice but to embrace critical thinking/seeing things in new dimensions etc to solve such problems. For example, beth mugo had suggested that another school be built within lenana school land. She was bombarded by the usual lynch mob and now the lenana school land continues to lie idle. This could have created more jobs etc etc http://allafrica.com/stories/200612040529.html
Kenya: Minister in Land Dispute With School BY MBURU MWANGI, 4 DECEMBER 2006 Nairobi — A tussle over land belonging to a top school is brewing after its board of governors declined to give up 40 acres as requested by an assistant minister for Education. Dagoretti MP Beth Mugo wrote to Nairobi's Lenana School two weeks ago asking it to surrender the land for the establishment of a multi-purpose educational centre. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@jagernaut, on nairobi national park, i see no reason why the animals cant be moved further to amboseli. The park is surrounded by langata, south c, kitengela and rongai. The park is full of lush grassland. By moving the animals away and subdividing the land into 1 to 5 acre parcels per house, similar to karen, then enforcing rules that all house owners should plant trees, the area will become a forest. The forest will then clean nairobi's air and enable creation of rain. By leaving the area as grassland, this does not help the environment. Forests create a carbon sink hence keeping our environment 10 times better than if grassland. http://www.chiefscientis...lia-forests-or-grasses/
Quote:Based on data from typical perennial grasslands and mature forests in Australia, forests are typically more than 10 times as effective as grasslands at storing carbon on a hectare per hectare basis. In theory, its better for the land to be used as forested residential eg karen but in practicability of it, people might not see the same picture and hence subdivide the land into smaller plots , without enforcing planting of trees etc, creating a desert, harming the ecology. Current revenues generated by the park are pea nuts and a drain to our economy and environment. The area can do better if forested. Check nairobi national park facts here http://www.kws.org/expor...nal_Park_fact_sheet.pdf
Quote:MAJOR ATTRACTIONS • The only Wildlife park in the world that is so close to the city • Black rhinoceros :which is an endangered species • The first park to be gazetted in Kenya on December 16, 1946, • Major rhino sanctuary for breeding and restocking other parks.
Am sure developed nations with proper land use planning see the part in red above and cant believe a country can not see the benefit of moving the park away from the city. There is a reason why nairobi national park is the only park so close to the city, and the reason is poor planning. This is not something kenya should be proud of. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/12/2006 Posts: 1,554
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a4architect.com wrote:@jamani, i supposed you saw our debate about konza viability in previous posts. My argument then was that konza is not feasible. This argument came to pass sometime early this year on what i had predicted. http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...spx?g=posts&t=24882
I can predict to you that those glossy pictures of skyscrapers will not stand at konza within the next 40 to 50 years. Konza will be a city in the next 40 to 50 years or so. If Jkia is moved to konza, this is a good area for height restriction since population is still low. In the next 40 to 50 years, architects and planners who will take over after us will advise that jkia is shifted from konza to mtito andei. Its high time kenyans started to see the bigger picture and move from the self to decisions that benefit the country as a whole. This is how developed countries eg usa, china, russia and europe work. Major decisions are left to professionals who decide for the benefit of the whole country. The lynch mob psychology seen with kenyans will not take us far as a country. Demolisions in syokimau and the threat to demolision in the kevivapi land to me are wrong and not beneficial to our economy. @Jamani and @jaggernaut, i supposed you also will be happy when your tax payer money doesnt go to duplicate infrastructure, when you can live near nairobi cbd, when land is available for developers near nairobi hence lower rents etc. If such is beneficial to you, you have no choice but to embrace critical thinking/seeing things in new dimensions etc to solve such problems. For example, beth mugo had suggested that another school be built within lenana school land. She was bombarded by the usual lynch mob and now the lenana school land continues to lie idle. This could have created more jobs etc etc http://allafrica.com/stories/200612040529.html
Kenya: Minister in Land Dispute With School BY MBURU MWANGI, 4 DECEMBER 2006 Nairobi — A tussle over land belonging to a top school is brewing after its board of governors declined to give up 40 acres as requested by an assistant minister for Education. Dagoretti MP Beth Mugo wrote to Nairobi's Lenana School two weeks ago asking it to surrender the land for the establishment of a multi-purpose educational centre. Jfk has not been moved, heathrow has not been moved, dubai international airport still being expanded in the middle of the city, just to mention but a few.. Your focus is only in nairobi for housing development...open your eyes.....You suggest JKIA be moved to mtito!! aaaih! I rest my case
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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I agree that it makes bad economic sense to destroy such beautiful houses. A lot of money would be lost. BUT The issue is not the economy here. The issue is illegality. The people who bought these properties bought them ILLEGALLY. They are part of the problem. A country where everyone looks the other way even when they can suspect that something is wrong. After all, they will have "professionals" like ak supporting their ILLEGALITY. If you buy land in Kenya you should do a thorough search. 90% of Kenyan land buyers depend on people like AK and lawyers to do the right thing. I guess you can now see what the "professionals" think. When "professionals" go around supporting illegality you wonder if ethics was ever taught in school. The owners of these illegal properties have a way forward. Sue everyone who's involved. Thats the decent thing to do. BUT They won't. They will ask Sonko to tell parliament to support their ILLEGAL occupation of land. So NO. I feel nothing for them. They should be demolished. Just as the syokimau ones. I'm 100% sure that the owners of syokimau land will never buy land based on the approval of architects like a4. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/12/2006 Posts: 1,554
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alma wrote:I agree that it makes bad economic sense to destroy such beautiful houses. A lot of money would be lost.
BUT
The issue is not the economy here. The issue is illegality.
The people who bought these properties bought them ILLEGALLY. They are part of the problem.
A country where everyone looks the other way even when they can suspect that something is wrong. After all, they will have "professionals" like ak supporting their ILLEGALITY.
If you buy land in Kenya you should do a thorough search. 90% of Kenyan land buyers depend on people like AK and lawyers to do the right thing. I guess you can now see what the "professionals" think.
When "professionals" go around supporting illegality you wonder if ethics was ever taught in school.
The owners of these illegal properties have a way forward. Sue everyone who's involved. Thats the decent thing to do.
BUT
They won't.
They will ask Sonko to tell parliament to support their ILLEGAL occupation of land.
So NO. I feel nothing for them. They should be demolished. Just as the syokimau ones.
I'm 100% sure that the owners of syokimau land will never buy land based on the approval of architects like a4. And to add on to that today we celebrate Thika highway, other east african countries come for case studies....but think about it, if nakumatt and other buildings on the reserve were not demolished would we be celebrating?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@jamani , i suggest jkia be moved to around daystar area, in the portland cement 14,000 acre land opposite daystar. Other international airports moved around the world are as below Denver airport, 5th busiest in the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/...r_International_Airport
The airport is 25 miles (40 km) driving distance from downtown Denver,[28] which is 19 miles (31 km) further away than Stapleton International Airport, the airport it replaced. The distant location was chosen to avoid aircraft noise affecting developed areas, to accommodate a generous runway layout that would not be compromised by winter storms, and to allow for future expansion. The 35,000 acres (55 sq mi; 140 km2)[29] of land occupied by the airport is nearly twice the land area of Manhattan. The land was transferred from Adams County to Denver after a 1989 vote,[30] increasing the city's size by 50 percent. However, much of the city of Aurora is actually closer to the airport than the developed portions of Denver, and all freeway traffic accessing the airport from central Denver passes through Aurora. Tacloban city airport in the Philippines http://newsinfo.inquirer...rt-moved-to-safer-place
Athens international airport in Greece http://en.wikipedia.org/...s_International_Airport
Oslo airport http://en.wikipedia.org/...i/Oslo_Airport,_Fornebu
I hope now you can rest your case. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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