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How do u tell books are cooked.
selah
#1 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2009 10:50:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
Given that listed companies submit their result to the public.How can one tell that a company's books do not reflect the true picture.

For instance olympia capital tried to misrepresent their books this year before they were exposed.




you can achive all things through Him(Jesus Christ)
'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
mturi
#2 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2009 7:09:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/29/2009
Posts: 25
Selah- It is hard to tell as even auditors do not always pick all the errors given the inherent limitation of the relationship between the auditor and management. Manipulation of records is fraud like any other which is followed by a systematic process of cover up. However,if you have time and ability,there are analytical techniques you could apply to detect manipulation of accounts but these require analysis over a number of years and they do not guarantee success. The techniques include comparing sustainable cash flows to operating profits. Whereas management can manipulate profits,it is hard to manipulate the cash flows as the cash flow figure must agree to cash at bank (or at least reconciled). Over time,if the cash flows lag behind the operating profits,it could be a sign of fictitious sales that are not being converted into cash. There are other ways management could boost profits e.g. valuation methods and use of estimates in the accounts. Again you could look at the unrealised gains/losses from these valuation methods and you can adjust for them if they are not based on external market data- look at consistency of use of these methods etc. The hardest bit of it all is the off balance sheet items and management can choose to omit there completely and therefore you might not pick them in your analysis. The biggest financial reporting fraud revolve around off-balance sheet items – from Enron,Worldcom etc,companies are able to hide losses through these items. Although there is push to have most of these items on balance sheet,it is possible for management to omit them and for analysts,auditors,financial journalist to fail to pick them up.
mukiha
#3 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 5:00:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@mturi;

That sounds like an answer to an exam question!!!

Paragraphs will make it easier to read...

Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
VituVingiSana
#4 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:16:00 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
@mukiha - For some reason paragraphs have been a problem for some users - myself included. No idea why SK hasn't responded to this problem

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Layman
#5 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:33:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/21/2006
Posts: 422
Location: Nairobi
You can also smell the books!

There's no hurry in Kenya!
kokwa
#6 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:17:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 36
Smells like a rat.
The fact is that KRA will be on their neck for the 'profits' so reported

Happy are those who dream dreams and are ready to pay the price to make their dreams come true
mtaalam
#7 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:26:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 519
Ha ha... @Layman,
You've made my day. I wonder what well done paper smells like...

...ili iwe funzo!
Kusadikika
#8 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 4:25:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,703
Thanks mturi!!! You should be a teacher, you got simplicity,precision,clarity and accuracy in your explanation that is easy to understand and truly educational. Bravo keep it up.


Weusi wa nywele za mshtakiwa zaonyesha ujinga alio nao
petro
#9 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:34:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/8/2008
Posts: 26
It becomes even more tricky because even audit firms are compromised. I am an accountant and at times have felt ashamed when I know that some issues are discussed between partners of audit firms and management or owners of some companies and the result is to get different report and results from which the staff doing the actual audit would have produced.

I think the big four could be innocent on this but I am not sure.

This year,a certain small audit firm audited a project funded by UN which we were implementing and I was ashamed to be an accountant.

They came one afternoon,and they went away. The next thing they sent us a draft report showing all was well. Those guys did not audit us.

Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces smart people into thinking they can't lose.
mozenrat
#10 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:14:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/18/2008
Posts: 796
Well I doubt the big four are... from what I know of the operations of all four,the audit report you see is a result of huge collaborative effort and the Partners would be hard pressed to drop without justification issues that emanate from several documents on file prepared by different people.. Further,all the big four firms have in place processes where their work is reviewed annually by auditors from their sister firms in other countries whose motivation is just like any other auditors - to catch violators,uncover issues and produce huge reports...
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