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July deadline for ban on cash for bus fare
murchr
#51 Posted : Saturday, January 04, 2014 10:23:36 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
dunkang wrote:
@murchr, i think you are not understanding @alma and my concerns. I personally do not oppose war against corruption or employees theft. No. All am worried about is the SUSPISCIOUS way that the GoK is involving itself in TOTALLY PRIVATE business affairs. Its suspect because whether i carry people for free or for a goat or for bonga points has nothing to do with the GoK. At night, whether you lock your house door or not, the GoK has no business in telling you what to do.

I fail to understand why you can't see this is a taxation plot or/and a ploy to formation of a 'law protected' CARTEL in the public transport sector locking out small investors. The tax am most worried about is VAT on fare.


Who lied to you that there can be any legitimate business without the involvement of government? Where on earth do businesses operate without government? Lazima kuwe na sheria. In Singapore there is a "ticket service payment regulation" which even dictates the amount that players can charge.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
alma
#52 Posted : Saturday, January 04, 2014 10:24:05 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
kysse wrote:
Well,in that case I went digital long ago when began paying fare by mpesa 2 yrs ago.
Have always held the notion that,as long a there is no law on the acceptable mode of payment in public vehicle then any means of transaction is acceptable and refusal to accept my money by the crew should not be my wahala.
Never faced any opposition,some have let me travel free.






That's exactly what we are saying. You as a citizen cannot be seduced to accept one mode of payment over another because some gov't beauractrat doesn't like ndururus. If you wish to use mpesa, use mpesa. If i want to use cash, let me use cash.

If the gov't doesn't like cash, then they should remove them from circulation.

Failure to which this is a tax and a cartel being created with the blessings of gov't.

If cash is not good enough for matatus, how can it be good enough for anything. Especially when matatus are the worst in our community?

This thing will bring up more constitutional issues than njumbiree can deal with. From discrimination to forced monopolies to rights of citizens.

It stinks to high heaven.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
murchr
#53 Posted : Saturday, January 04, 2014 10:25:06 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
maka wrote:
murchr wrote:
No gov has forced anyone to use any platform the regulations that have been set were formulated by the sector together with the gov. Safcom and Equity are just early birds catching worms. Those other laggards will complain later.


Its wrong no matter how you look at it...where was the common mans input?


Welcome to reality. Common man will accept and move on or buy his car
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
dunkang
#54 Posted : Saturday, January 04, 2014 10:57:10 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,824
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
murchr wrote:
dunkang wrote:
@murchr, i think you are not understanding @alma and my concerns. I personally do not oppose war against corruption or employees theft. No. All am worried about is the SUSPISCIOUS way that the GoK is involving itself in TOTALLY PRIVATE business affairs. Its suspect because whether i carry people for free or for a goat or for bonga points has nothing to do with the GoK. At night, whether you lock your house door or not, the GoK has no business in telling you what to do.

I fail to understand why you can't see this is a taxation plot or/and a ploy to formation of a 'law protected' CARTEL in the public transport sector locking out small investors. The tax am most worried about is VAT on fare.


Who lied to you that there can be any legitimate business without the involvement of government? Where on earth do businesses operate without government? Lazima kuwe na sheria. In Singapore there is a "ticket service payment regulation" which even dictates the amount that players can charge.

What you are stating is TRUE. But, should the GoK be seen to be facilitating business activities or be seen as if its engaging in business activities.

The GoK must be made to understand that excessive controls, permits and licences leads to more corruption and bungling (formation of Cartels). Why should the GoK introduce such laws when there is clearly no need? Let the market force determine the future path. The GoK must not be allowed to create artificial barriers and licences which are undemocratic in nature.

The GoK should facilitate business but not be seen to be engaging in business, as far as possible, or create barriers and bottlenecks.
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

symbols
#55 Posted : Saturday, January 04, 2014 10:59:01 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
If this is what digital means they should tell us what the agenda is so that we accept earlier on.We've heard of Kenyan's encountering problems acquiring IDs and I'd assume these systems(m-pesa or bebapay) would rely on IDs.We've also heard of police using m-pesa to service their bribes through proxies with m-pesa.Let's not lie to ourselves,corruption is a quota to be filled which goes up the ladder.

What is faster,convenient and cheaper,removing a note or coin(s) from your pocket or waiting to see if a system somewhere is working?A ban is a strong move which makes it look like using cash is a crime.There's no way to spin this to the 'common' man or the digizens.These policies don't reflect 'democratic' ideals of dialogue,particapation and consideration.
mkenyan
#56 Posted : Saturday, January 04, 2014 11:01:13 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,885
murchr wrote:
maka wrote:
murchr wrote:
No gov has forced anyone to use any platform the regulations that have been set were formulated by the sector together with the gov. Safcom and Equity are just early birds catching worms. Those other laggards will complain later.


Its wrong no matter how you look at it...where was the common mans input?


Welcome to reality. Common man will accept and move on or buy his car

ironically it is you who should be welcome to the reality of the post 2010 constitution kenya.
tycho
#57 Posted : Saturday, January 04, 2014 11:20:43 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
No gov has forced anyone to use any platform the regulations that have been set were formulated by the sector together with the gov. Safcom and Equity are just early birds catching worms. Those other laggards will complain later.


It's difficult to identify 'laggards', and it's equally difficult to have a restrictive market where 'laggards complain later'.

A digital world needs and perhaps must be open, and free for all. If the government appears to favor some market players over others then even the favored must fail to reap the the biggest rewards in a digital and cyber world, the continuous increase in productivity per capita. Why? Because in a traditionally competitive world, an organization will prefer monopoly. But monopoly in a market where information is ubiquitous and ideas innumerable and vast systems of networks create events, is doomed to failure.

'Collaboration' is the key word if there's to be any movement to a 'digital' world. And growth of a digital system entails the planting of the right seeds.

For example, let's take the question you asked: 'What's the value of cash transactions in a matatu?' A friend needs to go to town. But he's a hustler, and though he has fought hard and bought a phone, he has no money on his digital account. Can I afford to give him fifty shillings via m-pesa? The value of a cash transaction becomes the social cost plus the transfer charge.

Not unless every event has high present value and is registered monetarily, meaning there are no pure consumers, then one will always prefer cash to 'digital'. So the way to go for the government, if they want a fully digital society is to encourage a cultural shift to 'prosumption' combination of production and consumption taking place at the same time to all citizens. This implies massive structural and functional changes in government and society as a whole. Therefore the other seed is restructuring government to prosumption and universal collaboration.

A cashless society won't need a public transport system. The technology involved is enough to allow teleporting, and a host of other technologies that an 'analogue government can't even afford to tax. So clearly the government is sabotaging itself by coming up with such regulations.





tycho
#58 Posted : Saturday, January 04, 2014 11:23:38 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
del
kysse
#59 Posted : Sunday, January 05, 2014 12:15:57 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/17/2013
Posts: 4,693
Location: Earth
dunkang wrote:
The tax am most worried about is VAT on fare.


We are still reeling from the effects of 12% nssf cut.
some laws can turn good citizens into beasts and my humble plea to these guys is this.'come srowry'.
washiku
#60 Posted : Sunday, January 05, 2014 12:26:47 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
I think one challenge we face as a country is that almost all our policy programmes are structured in a 'punitive' version effect of which they automatically end up facing resistance. The society will always tend to rebel against the govt. Someone somewhere will always look for a loophole that can be utilised to keep off the govt. Maybe we ought to have a total shift in the thinking by coming up with policies that are attractive towards a desired end than one that punishes people towards a desired end. Eg many people today welcomes Mpesa as a means of payment, not because there was a deadline for people to register but coz the benefits of having it are more compared to not having it. Actually nobody forces you to go for it, rather it attracts you to it.

Coming back to transport, if govt could offer certain incentives to transport companies that shall be organised in a certain way and that offers the customers certain desirable service levels, its easier to attract passengers to that particular company, leading to other companies following suite n with time forces of market will force all serious investors in the sector to shape up.

Govt could even go further n invest in very well managed buses that offers high quality services, charges certain desirable amounts n payments done in certain desired methods. If passengers start preferring the govt vehicles to the private ones, you will start seeing private ones now offering even better services to keep the customers to themselves.

This transport industry is worth about KES 200billions thus should attract very serious levels of thinking if the right environment is created.
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