@Washiku, when I look at laws and drugs, including alcohol, I see that the laws are mechanisms of increasing the price of taking the drugs, and the powers of those who deal in them.

Add that to the idea that religions are forms of drugs, and the question becomes 'which drug do you prefer, alcohol/Islam/Christianity?'

Or, how do we handle the drug issue, and why that way? It's about human responsibility not 'religious duty'.

When one takes a drug as a duty, then he's either abusing it, or is sick. The same for 'religious duty'.

@washiku I think I answered your question in my post #7

@Zanze show me where I've said all muslims follow everything Quran says. You see @Wilyam asked "what is the place of alcohol in Islam and CHristianity". I'm just answering as per the subject. I'm saying in Islam, alcohol is haraam, it is forbidden. I gave verses in the Quran to this effect. Of course some Muslims indulge in alcohol consumption, yet they know it is forbidden. But what I said the "BIGGEST", Islam has created the biggest society of teetollers in the world. They are the majority of those who don't indulge in alcohol. If some Muslims do not follow this, does not mean is allowed. This is their choice. They know it is wrong. This is between them and God. The Quran clearly states the lawful and unlawful actions and all humans must follow this Law of God which is known as the 'Shariah' or Islamic Law.

But if they don't, no one can force them. It only means they don't believe as the verse says:
Quran Chapter 5 verse 90:
"O Ye who believe! Intoxicants and Gambling, Sacrificing to Stones, and (divination by) Arrows, are an abomination, of Satan's handiwork; Keep away from such, that Ye may prosper."

@Masukuma, remember in every community there are black sheep but on the basis of these black sheep we can't say that the whole community is wrong.

@Lolest! Bible condemns wine. If you believe in it, then you should follow. But if you don't then you disobey.
Romans 14:21 -> It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.
Proverbs 31:6-7 -> Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more
Proverbs 20:1 -> Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.
1 Peter 5:8 -> Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

And for @Masukuma, @washiku and @dia you are arguing that drunkedness is not drinking wine. Up to you how you interpret it. To me drunkardness is as a result of drinking something with alcohol in it.

@Mukiri do you believe? You don't really believe that the Bible is the word of God. It is just there for adornment, for beautification. Things that God said in the old testament and the thing Jesus (pbuh) said, no you are not prepared to do that. God set out the commandments in the old testament, that is why you still quote the ten commandments. And Jesus didn't come to change that law, Matt 5:17 he says:
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy but to fullfil.
For verilly, I tell you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from the law, till all is fullfilled. Whosoever, therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven"

Has the world ended? Where are the Christians who follow the law and the commandments? Universally, they reject the laws and the commandments.
And now you @Mukiri you say you are not bound by the law, that you are living in the grace, as Paul taught you. According to Jesus, you're worthless rubbish, even if you break one of these least commandments, you're not his follower.

In conclusion
I'm not speaking on behalf of anybody. I'm speaking on behalf of myself. I follow the teachings of the books of God:
- Torah given to Moses (pbuh)
- Zabur given to David (pbuh)
- Injeel given to Jesus (pbuh)
- Quran given to Muhammad (pbuh)

So I rest my case.

When did Man discover alcohol?

Kila mwamba ngoma, ngozi huivutia kwake;
Most interpret their holy books to suit their present comforts, otherwise following those books would mean we go back to living in the deserts 2000 or 1400 years back.

drunkenness is the state of being intoxicated; intoxication. Jesus drunk!! its recorded in scripture.


As I said - I personally don't drink! but I have studied the gospel enough to know that the abstention of alcohol is something you opt in but is not dedicated to by scripture. if you dig deep enough you will realize that good ol' religion evangelists such as Charles Haddon Spurgeon partook of the fruit of the vine. Heck even during the Lord's supper Jesus told his disciples that he will not take it until they meet in God's kingdom
so.... Who are you to argue with Jesus on Christianity but kwa sababu sio lazima - mimi sinywi coz I have seen the bad effect of alcohol in society. Muhammad must have seen the same. it adds nothing and takes away a lot. perhaps the reason people in palestine used to drink wine was because the water was not safe to drink. but hey Jesus asked the samaritan woman for 'water' not wine... so let's just agree to disagree that the bible does not ban the use of alcohol. Even paul asks Timothy to use it for his ailment (ama he meant for Timothy to apply it like ointment?)