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whats the place of alcohol in christianity/islam?
seppuku
#11 Posted : Wednesday, December 04, 2013 9:38:11 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/11/2010
Posts: 918
Lolest! wrote:
fact is, the bible does not condemn wine. Jesus himself took wine! He told parables of wine and vineyards. The lord's table has wine! Paul, in one of his letters encourages someone (was it Timothy or Titus) to take some wine for the stomach. The bible however condemns drunkenness. Just like it condemns gluttony. Food and wine aren't evil, drunkenness and gluttony are. I wonder where the church gets the inspiration to classify 'drinking' as sin to the point of, in some cases, excommunicating worshippers


This makes total sense to me.
Learn first to treat your time as you would your money, then treat your money as you do your time.
newfarer
#12 Posted : Wednesday, December 04, 2013 9:46:07 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,505
Location: Uganda
Was it Wine or grape Juice at Cana Galilee ?
wine for lack of a better word then? how comes not a single drunkard is mentioned after the cana wedding


remember bible talks of slave in what we could consider as employee in modern world.


ponder that
punda amecheka
maka
#13 Posted : Wednesday, December 04, 2013 9:59:43 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
newfarer wrote:
Was it Wine or grape Juice at Cana Galilee ?
wine for lack of a better word then? how comes not a single drunkard is mentioned after the cana wedding


remember bible talks of slave in what we could consider as employee in modern world.


ponder that


It was unfermented thus not with any alcoholic content...alcohol has no place in religion period.
possunt quia posse videntur
Sansa
#14 Posted : Wednesday, December 04, 2013 10:01:59 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 344
maka wrote:


It was unfermented thus not with any alcoholic content...alcohol has no place in religion period.


And you know this how? Verses?
maka
#15 Posted : Wednesday, December 04, 2013 10:12:41 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
Sansa wrote:
maka wrote:


It was unfermented thus not with any alcoholic content...alcohol has no place in religion period.


And you know this how? Verses?


I have researched on this in depth...lame excuse to justify drinking.
possunt quia posse videntur
Sansa
#16 Posted : Wednesday, December 04, 2013 10:19:21 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 344
maka wrote:
Sansa wrote:
maka wrote:


It was unfermented thus not with any alcoholic content...alcohol has no place in religion period.


And you know this how? Verses?


I have researched on this in depth...lame excuse to justify drinking.


Please direct us so that we can be as informed.
washiku
#17 Posted : Wednesday, December 04, 2013 10:53:04 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
@Alphi, yu have clearly refused to answer my question. Yu decided to ask a different one. Ok. This is my position. This is my faith...

Alcohol, like any other food, when taken in moderation is fine. If abused(drunkadness) it distorts your right thought process and could lead you to sin against God and fellow human being. The Bible cindemns drunkadness. Infact, our faith teaches that gluttonness in whichever form, whether yu partake alcohol or chapos or tea, is a sin. Yu r expected to control your body n its desires, n not be controlled by the things u partake. Thus, whatever it is yu partake, yu must exercise self control..

For the sake of social order, and in the same spirit of self control, a Christian is expected to exercise logical judgement of their environment before they partake whatever food n drinks, alcohol included, so that they dont scandalise the people they r with. Paul taught Romans that all food were fine, but they shud be careful what they partake rest they lead others astray. Eg I am not muslim, n thus am ok with pork, but if I was to invite a muslim in my house I wouldnt cook pork because ir would annoy/scandalise my muslim visitor. If am a parent n I expect my children not to take alcohol until they r of right age to make their choices, I wouldnt be partaking it in their presence rest I lead them astray. If my taking of alcohol affects the health of my wife, I wud sacrifice n leave it for the sake of her welness. In other words, there r times a Christian is expected to sacrifice their pleassure for the sake of general good of the society they are in.

What about other drugs? First a Christian shud not partake any drug that has been banned by the laws of the land. It is our responsibility to participate in n respect the laws. Obedience to the law is not a choice but a must esp those laws that have been taken to protect the general society from social evils. Secondly, the effects of a particular drug to the welness of the society must be checked b4 its taken. That is why those drugs that turns those young peoe in Mombasa n other areas into useless n dependent creatures r a No No. Further, evn if a drug is legal, if it is affecting the normal functionality of your body, from a medical perspective, it shud be stopped. The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit n thus its wellbeing is key to a Christian.
masukuma
#18 Posted : Wednesday, December 04, 2013 11:08:19 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
This is what I belive - phombe is not banned in christianity however drunkenness is. I have seen christians partake of the fruits of the vine and I have no qualms. Personally I don't pertake of it (why should someone spend money to buy something that you squint while partaking?). When I travel I do make a point of informing my hosts early that I don't drink and thus it becomes easier since they get to know what to expect from me early enough... I tend to stay away from people who say that they cannot trust anyone who does not drink.
On Islam, I have lived in an islamic society that looked very solid on the surface. no alcholic drinks by the Muslims e.t.c. no bar in sight. one day I was invited ( as part of the international staff of my org) to a 'Christmas' bash by a well known businessman. When I showed up - everyone was drinking!! everyone!! the muslims the rest of the internationals e.t.c. I made my stand know early (party pooper) and I realized that i ruffled feathers. mimi nilikuwa nakunywa orange juice!! Politicians from that country also came and they kunywad those kali spirits. From that point i started to realize that one can only speak for themselves. while that country did not have pubs they had changaa or some form or moonshine being brewed in the shanty towns. apparently a good number of people drunk. the stories were since the country was Islamic (its official title contained the pharse 'Islamic Republic') it was illegal to import alcohol but the going rate at the airport was for every 4 bottles of whisky you had - you had to leave one behind Laughing out loudly before that I knew this fact I always wondered why they used to search my bags diligently and kept on asking 'do you have any alcohol in your bags?' several times even after stating that I don't!! Kwa ufupi - speak about yourself the number of teetotalers may not be as high as you think.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
washiku
#19 Posted : Wednesday, December 04, 2013 11:23:57 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
maka wrote:
Sansa wrote:
maka wrote:


It was unfermented thus not with any alcoholic content...alcohol has no place in religion period.


And you know this how? Verses?


I have researched on this in depth...lame excuse to justify drinking.


That is a lie Maka...Grape vine is the word used in the Bible. How then did it tyrn out it wasnt wine?
Mukiri
#20 Posted : Wednesday, December 04, 2013 11:48:49 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
masukuma wrote:
This is what I belive - phombe is not banned in christianity however drunkenness is. I have seen christians partake of the fruits of the vine and I have no qualms. Personally I don't pertake of it (why should someone spend money to buy something that you squint while partaking?). When I travel I do make a point of informing my hosts early that I don't drink and thus it becomes easier since they get to know what to expect from me early enough... I tend to stay away from people who say that they cannot trust anyone who does not drink.
On Islam, I have lived in an islamic society that looked very solid on the surface. no alcholic drinks by the Muslims e.t.c. no bar in sight. one day I was invited ( as part of the international staff of my org) to a 'Christmas' bash by a well known businessman. When I showed up - everyone was drinking!! everyone!! the muslims the rest of the internationals e.t.c. I made my stand know early (party pooper) and I realized that i ruffled feathers. mimi nilikuwa nakunywa orange juice!! Politicians from that country also came and they kunywad those kali spirits. From that point i started to realize that one can only speak for themselves. while that country did not have pubs they had changaa or some form or moonshine being brewed in the shanty towns. apparently a good number of people drunk. the stories were since the country was Islamic (its official title contained the pharse 'Islamic Republic') it was illegal to import alcohol but the going rate at the airport was for every 4 bottles of whisky you had - you had to leave one behind Laughing out loudly before that I knew this fact I always wondered why they used to search my bags diligently and kept on asking 'do you have any alcohol in your bags?' several times even after stating that I don't!! Kwa ufupi - speak about yourself the number of teetotalers may not be as high as you think.

Applause Applause Applause And here you hear this (..sijui nimuite aje) praising himself the way he's perfect, the way his people are perfect and that everyone else should leave their ways and emulate him. Bure kabisa.

I've always wondered why he just can't preach his truth without antagonism, why he has to resort to attacks. I'm slowly realizing its a spirit one gets when they get 'inducted'

Who's listened to the Somali preacher Adam Hajj?

Proverbs 19:21
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