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Shame!!
bkismat
#1 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 10:04:39 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 2,375
http://www.nation.co.ke/...6/-/hshhi8z/-/index.html
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
Shak
#2 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 10:28:08 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/22/2009
Posts: 2,449
Location: Africa
Why in God's name are fathers raping their own daughters? What's the root cause of this behaviour? Is it drugs. And why are parents leaving young children at home unattended and vulnerable to attack?
Mukiri
#3 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 10:44:43 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
Pornography and drunkenness is never far from such

Proverbs 19:21
AlphDoti
#4 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 12:20:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Mukiri wrote:
Pornography and drunkenness is never far from such

Don't we preach these vices?

We have lost sight of where to put boundary between love and responsibility. We love the robber, we love the killer, we love the fornicator, we love the adulterer and his mpango wa kando, we love the rapist, now we love the defiler and incest perpetrator!

Now we are pointing fingers at the society, when it has become so complacant. Who are the society? It is made up of people, who love everybody.

We preach these things to the people, the society, then turn around and complain
Muriel
#5 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 12:32:01 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
AlphDoti wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
Pornography and drunkenness is never far from such

Don't we preach these vices?

We have lost sight of where to put boundary between love and responsibility. We love the robber, we love the killer, we love the fornicator, we love the adulterer and his mpango wa kando, we love the rapist, now we love the defiler and incest perpetrator!

Now we are pointing fingers at the society, when it has become so complacant. Who are the society? It is made up of people, who love everybody.

We preach these things to the people, the society, then turn around and complain


(Alphdoti,

I am doing certain studies that I am looking forward to share with you later.)
tycho
#6 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 12:33:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Human power has sex and sexuality as its hammer. When Man is powerful and noble, human sexuality, whatever the symbols used, is also powerful and noble.

But when Man is debased, then grumbling and anger, and indignation and hate will reign, and sex will bear these prints.

Some will say you must be repressive, but that's only self deception. Hypocrisy.
Muriel
#7 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 12:40:32 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
tycho wrote:
Human power has sex and sexuality as its hammer. When Man is powerful and noble, human sexuality, whatever the symbols used, is also powerful and noble.

But when Man is debased, then grumbling and anger, and indignation and hate will reign, and sex will bear these prints.

Some will say you must be repressive, but that's only self deception. Hypocrisy.


Mardi Gras?
InnovateGuy
#8 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 12:47:19 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/15/2012
Posts: 1,110
All those stories are indeed true. I've personally worked in Busia and its environs. Sadly, Butula is one of the most backward places I've ever been. Wife inheritance is still rampant, people don't use condoms hence high HIV prevalence, the people are quite amorous, the place has high poverty index yet the people live in fertile lands, the number of young kids taking care of their parents is very high because a good number of them are orphaned at a young age, a guy working in Nairobi can easily marry a village girl even without meeting her (all that the guy needs to do is to send his photo to relas back there then the girl is shipped to nrb), etc.

Nevertheless, the night life in Busia is awesome -especially the UG side.
Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
AlphDoti
#9 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 12:58:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
@muriel I can add to you some more input for your MBA thesis paper... I'm generous with information.

First, let me pre-empt those who want to argue, by giving some statistics. There is a reasearch in South Africa showing that 8% of Whites, commit incest with their own daughters. 13% of Americans are committing incest with their own daughters. I told you before about a psychiatrist Dr. Vernon Jones who carried out a research on young children, certain school children to whom certain stories were read to them. He said that these stories made slight but permanent changes in character. He said that the type of story that you read, will create the type of mentality that you have. If you read junky stuff, your mind will become junky, you eat chunky food, your body will be chunky.

So, nowadays punishment shifted to being applied in secrecy, in dangions, in prisons, nobody sees it, it is only a statistics in the paper so and so was executed for a certain crime.
Then it does not have the deterrent effects that it would if it had been done in public.

When it comes to the issue of fornication, adultery and incest, and the Western attitude has taken over. They say the methods are outdated, they say it is outdated to do this in these times.
The reasons for this is that there has a been a change in moral standards in the Western countries. They no longer see these things as immoral. They think FGM is immoral. But fornication, adultery, rape and incest is not!
Infact to them the president himself of the country, the presidents of these countries are known for adultery and fornication. The society accepts it, by electing them knowingly.

I mean go back 30 years ago, this was not acceptable that a president or prime minister could be elected knowing that he does this kidn of thing. However, in our time, with the change in the morality of the society, this has become acceptable.

So naturally, in a soceity where adultery and fornication have become norms, nobody questions it, it is called barbaric. However, it is no longer a crime, because they say it is consenting adults. This is the principle, which governs the "rightness" and "wrongness" of sexual relations. As long as they are consenting adults then the society has no business to punish them.
According to Western culture, where the society is secular which means religion has no place in the applicaiton of law.

So with kind of an attitude, where we are evolving things, then they say there is no need to punish enyone. Of course there are peole in the West who are sadden, sicked, by this attitude.
This is the system as potrayed by the media, supported by international political systems.
Whether it is true the UN or wherever, these attitudes are being promoted, and they are penetrating other wountries.

You see now there are resistance to the aplication of law for this kind of crimes.
Muriel
#10 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 1:20:02 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
AlphDoti wrote:
@muriel I can add to you some more input for your MBA thesis paper... I'm generous with information.

First, let me pre-empt those who want to argue, by giving some statistics. There is a reasearch in South Africa showing that 8% of Whites, commit incest with their own daughters. 13% of Americans are committing incest with their own daughters. I told you before about a psychiatrist Dr. Vernon Jones who carried out a research on young children, certain school children to whom certain stories were read to them. He said that these stories made slight but permanent changes in character. He said that the type of story that you read, will create the type of mentality that you have. If you read junky stuff, your mind will become junky, you eat chunky food, your body will be chunky.

So, nowadays punishment shifted to being applied in secrecy, in dangions, in prisons, nobody sees it, it is only a statistics in the paper so and so was executed for a certain crime.
Then it does not have the deterrent effects that it would if it had been done in public.

When it comes to the issue of fornication, adultery and incest, and the Western attitude has taken over. They say the methods are outdated, they say it is outdated to do this in these times.
The reasons for this is that there has a been a change in moral standards in the Western countries. They no longer see these things as immoral. They think FGM is immoral. But fornication, adultery, rape and incest is not!
Infact to them the president himself of the country, the presidents of these countries are known for adultery and fornication. The society accepts it, by electing them knowingly.

I mean go back 30 years ago, this was not acceptable that a president or prime minister could be elected knowing that he does this kidn of thing. However, in our time, with the change in the morality of the society, this has become acceptable.

So naturally, in a soceity where adultery and fornication have become norms, nobody questions it, it is called barbaric. However, it is no longer a crime, because they say it is consenting adults. This is the principle, which governs the "rightness" and "wrongness" of sexual relations. As long as they are consenting adults then the society has no business to punish them.
According to Western culture, where the society is secular which means religion has no place in the applicaiton of law.

So with kind of an attitude, where we are evolving things, then they say there is no need to punish enyone. Of course there are peole in the West who are sadden, sicked, by this attitude.
This is the system as potrayed by the media, supported by international political systems.
Whether it is true the UN or wherever, these attitudes are being promoted, and they are penetrating other wountries.

You see now there are resistance to the aplication of law for this kind of crimes.



Ahhhh.

Yes.
tycho
#11 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 2:10:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:
tycho wrote:
Human power has sex and sexuality as its hammer. When Man is powerful and noble, human sexuality, whatever the symbols used, is also powerful and noble.

But when Man is debased, then grumbling and anger, and indignation and hate will reign, and sex will bear these prints.

Some will say you must be repressive, but that's only self deception. Hypocrisy.


Mardi Gras?


Mardi Gras, is an expression of fear. We are now looking at beyond fear. The sun no longer sets. A people who always shine like the sun.
tycho
#12 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 2:20:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
@muriel I can add to you some more input for your MBA thesis paper... I'm generous with information.

First, let me pre-empt those who want to argue, by giving some statistics. There is a reasearch in South Africa showing that 8% of Whites, commit incest with their own daughters. 13% of Americans are committing incest with their own daughters. I told you before about a psychiatrist Dr. Vernon Jones who carried out a research on young children, certain school children to whom certain stories were read to them. He said that these stories made slight but permanent changes in character. He said that the type of story that you read, will create the type of mentality that you have. If you read junky stuff, your mind will become junky, you eat chunky food, your body will be chunky.

So, nowadays punishment shifted to being applied in secrecy, in dangions, in prisons, nobody sees it, it is only a statistics in the paper so and so was executed for a certain crime.
Then it does not have the deterrent effects that it would if it had been done in public.

When it comes to the issue of fornication, adultery and incest, and the Western attitude has taken over. They say the methods are outdated, they say it is outdated to do this in these times.
The reasons for this is that there has a been a change in moral standards in the Western countries. They no longer see these things as immoral. They think FGM is immoral. But fornication, adultery, rape and incest is not!
Infact to them the president himself of the country, the presidents of these countries are known for adultery and fornication. The society accepts it, by electing them knowingly.

I mean go back 30 years ago, this was not acceptable that a president or prime minister could be elected knowing that he does this kidn of thing. However, in our time, with the change in the morality of the society, this has become acceptable.

So naturally, in a soceity where adultery and fornication have become norms, nobody questions it, it is called barbaric. However, it is no longer a crime, because they say it is consenting adults. This is the principle, which governs the "rightness" and "wrongness" of sexual relations. As long as they are consenting adults then the society has no business to punish them.
According to Western culture, where the society is secular which means religion has no place in the applicaiton of law.

So with kind of an attitude, where we are evolving things, then they say there is no need to punish enyone. Of course there are peole in the West who are sadden, sicked, by this attitude.
This is the system as potrayed by the media, supported by international political systems.
Whether it is true the UN or wherever, these attitudes are being promoted, and they are penetrating other wountries.

You see now there are resistance to the aplication of law for this kind of crimes.


@AlphDoti, also give us 'statistics' of righteousness from the world you advocate for.

Tell us of the land with no robbers because all have been killed; and every new born is guaranteed not to be a thief because he's afraid of death.

Tell us of bodies hidden in freezers, and slavery among the righteous.

Tell us of how a good tree bears bad fruit.

Show us your righteousness.
AlphDoti
#13 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 7:29:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
tycho wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
@muriel I can add to you some more input for your MBA thesis paper... I'm generous with information.

First, let me pre-empt those who want to argue, by giving some statistics. There is a reasearch in South Africa showing that 8% of Whites, commit incest with their own daughters. 13% of Americans are committing incest with their own daughters. I told you before about a psychiatrist Dr. Vernon Jones who carried out a research on young children, certain school children to whom certain stories were read to them. He said that these stories made slight but permanent changes in character. He said that the type of story that you read, will create the type of mentality that you have. If you read junky stuff, your mind will become junky, you eat chunky food, your body will be chunky..

@AlphDoti, also give us 'statistics' of righteousness from the world you advocate for.

Tell us of the land with no robbers because all have been killed; and every new born is guaranteed not to be a thief because he's afraid of death.

Tell us of bodies hidden in freezers, and slavery among the righteous.

Tell us of how a good tree bears bad fruit.

Show us your righteousness.

Prostitution, venerial diseases & STDs, abortions, pedophilia, and number of children being raped and kidnapped that exists in your developed mindset society. It is almost unheard of in some worlds.

So I think that the statistics kind of peak for themselves.
AlphDoti
#14 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 8:00:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
@muriel for your thesis and @tycho for your sacarsm... I read that article and I see people with crazy kind of attitude. They are saying there is no need to punish them, they should settle it out of court. That's why writer says she's ashamed!

This attitude saddens and sickens me. You see now there is complacency and resistance to the application of law for this kind of crimes.

But the law against these purpetrators should be applied. Of course I'm not saying you apply it blindly. Not that somebody accusing somebody of incest and law is just applied no. There must be proof. Witnesses. Evidence e.g. pregnancy etc whatever the law requires.

In countries where they apply this kind of law, the number of cases of people stoned to death or lashed are very few! Over the last 1400 years to today, they are very, very few. They can be counted.

Where there is clear evidence (confession, or a woman gives birth to a baby, she becomes pregnant by her father, DNA if need be), the law will apply. But accussions is not enough.

For example, a girl can get pregnant and points a finger at somepne else, and this person says no, then they cannot apply the law. Why? Because she could be pointing at somebody she does not like, and it could not be that person at all. And she wants to save her father, who coule be the real culprit, because she loves. So this kind of accussations is not acceptable.

So basicly, the law is a deterrent
Something to discourage people. And a result of that you find that the rate of this crime is quite low, in general, in countries where it is applied.

And that's why I say the society has become rotten. There is a relaxation in moral values.
The family and its structures shuld be looked at very important. Security of the society is very important in the case of theft, murder, adultery, fornication and incest. For example pedophile who is involved in incest with his daughter should be executed.

Because the family is the core of the society.
Once that breaks down, you are finished.
So in order to protect that family, the laws should be very strong.

Encourage people to marry to have way of satisfying their physical needs legally, permit polygamy for those whose appetite is greator etc.
All these things like divorce is not difficult, so where people have problems, these things can be worked out and there are options for them.
So beyond that now, any kind of illicit sex should be treated as a grave crime. And the punishment should be very, very grave.

And I should mention, the punishment for incest is not something new. This is found in Mosaic law. It's been around, not something newly introduced. It is found in all laws of all countries. It should be revived, bring it back to the fore-front, and establish it, make it alive even now.

But sadly, in our societies it has been lost, the idea is not considered applicable.
kysse
#15 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 8:16:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/17/2013
Posts: 4,693
Location: Earth
People are too idle.
Get people working from 6 to 6 and they will have no time or energy to plot these evils.
An old or middle aged man idling away in the house or shopping center is a potential rapist.
run.






tycho
#16 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 8:49:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Laws are shackles of the powerless and fearful. Those who can, do.

If you can be 'righteous' why do you need laws? Laws are for slaves, calling for laws is tacitly admitting that you are wicked and trying to cover yourself.

Laws are about self deception.

I fear that we are now looking at the world of demons, where the possessed are not short of masks and excuses.
tycho
#17 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 8:52:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
kysse wrote:
People are too idle.
Get people working from 6 to 6 and they will have no time or energy to plot these evils.
An old or middle aged man idling away in the house or shopping center is a potential rapist.
run.



Isn't your prescription already in use? Isn't this the status quo?
Chief Guest
#18 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 9:45:09 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/2/2013
Posts: 387
How we so much love to shift the blame, point figures n accusations. Why is it so hard to see that today's ills are mostly begotten from the "modernized mind state"..its a liberal society. The good things we hate to do, we adorn the bad things, & say we are "civilized".. Shame!
Illmatic
kysse
#19 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 11:09:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/17/2013
Posts: 4,693
Location: Earth
tycho wrote:
kysse wrote:
People are too idle.
Get people working from 6 to 6 and they will have no time or energy to plot these evils.
An old or middle aged man idling away in the house or shopping center is a potential rapist.
run.



Isn't your prescription already in use? Isn't this the status quo?


No.Most rapists are idlers with too much time on their hands to plot evil.I mean it takes a lot of the devils tools to imagine raping one's own daughter.
What time does the fellow in gikomba/bodaboda have to imagine such when he spends whole day selling/shouting/riding? hes worn out and chances of that happening are nil.

mukhombero and tea.


Chief Guest
#20 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2013 11:22:20 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/2/2013
Posts: 387
kysse wrote:
tycho wrote:
kysse wrote:
People are too idle.
Get people working from 6 to 6 and they will have no time or energy to plot these evils.
An old or middle aged man idling away in the house or shopping center is a potential rapist.
run.



Isn't your prescription already in use? Isn't this the status quo?


No.Most rapists are idlers with too much time on their hands to plot evil.I mean it takes a lot of the devils tools to imagine raping one's own daughter.
What time does the fellow in gikomba/bodaboda have to imagine such when he spends whole day selling/shouting/riding? hes worn out and chances of that happening are nil.

mukhombero and tea.




Sin/atrocity is premeditated u mean?
Illmatic
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