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Rank: Member Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 326 Location: Nairobi
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Wakanyugi wrote:limanika wrote: @Wakanyugi, please expound more how Gikuyu was begot by kamba only 200 years ago taking note of the following: • Prof. Muriuki, who you claim is a better authority than yourself, was able to trace Gikuyu history upto 500 years before the coming of white man. • Krapf arrived in kitui in mid 1800s and found the kamba, who in turn made reference to kinyaa (kirinyaga), a gikuyu name. Do you mean gikuyu had separated from kamba merely 50 years before that- as in within the lifetime of the chief/living memory if he was +50?
Hey, I never claimed to be the authority here. I admit I could have got some numbers wrong, but my broad thesis is clearly undeniable. There is no theory I know that can show a phonetic derivation of 'Kirinyaga' from 'Kenyaa.' But the reverse is quite possible. And, lest we get stuck on consonant drift too much, there is plenty more evidence in other areas to show the antecedence of Kamba to Gikuyu. To quote Prof Muriuki, the Muranga and Kabete Gikuyu speak of an origin in Ithanga - Kamba land. We even had a children's rhyme about a man/woman who went to guard his sorghum in Ithanga and what came of him/her. He/she stepped on a frog that was, Wow! Njunge can sing it for you. Then I could tell you about the Thagishu from Tanzania and their links with Kamba and Gikuyu. "Ndathire ku`rira mwere gatitu` ka mwere Ngikinya kiura name ikinya kiura gitahutio ... no mention of ithanga. And thanks Wakanyugi your posts are interesting even though the Kamba as progenitor of Kikuyu is doubtful. The migratory path if all Bantu seem to have taken an easterly then southern trajectory from Central Africa. One question though: are there Nilotes and Cushites any south of Tanzania? . Pls consider writing a book expounding that etymology.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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Rankaz13 wrote:washiku wrote:When at it:
MITUGO MIURU KANITHAINI 1.kùhoyahoya karamu wandìke verse... 2.kùina ùkìhiùragia mathutha mùno arìa angì makaaga space ya kùinìra... 3.kùruta cati kana blaùsi ùgatigwo na vest/kamisù atì kwìna ùrugarì mùno... 4.gùcùthìrìria arìa angì makìhoya ta we ùtarì na ùndù wa kwìra Ngai... 5.kùmandìkìrìria bigi-jii gìtìinì yathira cama... 6.gùkoma gùkìhunjio nginya mata makanyùrùrùka... 7.gùthùkia rìera na ùgetua tiwe, ùgatùma andù marorane ùùru... 8.gwìtua ndùnaigua mùhunjia akiuga 'geithia ùcio mùikaranìtie'... 9.kùruta gìtangari gùkìinwo 'bendera yake Yesu'... 10.kùhoya kamweke ga kùina ùgacoka kuuga 'mùthikìrìrie ciugo no ti mùgambo' 12.kùhe ciana irio kanithainì arìa marafast makagwa magerioinì ma kwenda kùrìa... 13.gùtinda ùkiuma nìguo andù mone wìna nguo njeru You just had to Wamabisha  Mere matige mitugo mucie
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/7/2010 Posts: 728 Location: Wazuaville
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@WaP Ithanga was a mini dispersal point where the, it is assumed Thagichu tribe dispersed to different directions around Mt. Kenya having followed Thagana (Sagana/Tana river) to its source. The clans/dialect communities' dispersal spelt doom for the Thagichu tribe because the clans grew and attained an identity of their own and the name Thagichu became a distant memory only recollected in oral literature and names. at some point it became derogatory as it gained connotations of backwardness "Money never sleeps"
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,058 Location: Gwitu
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My grandma used to talk of 'Ndemi and Mathathi'. Who were this guys? Truth forever on the scaffold Wrong forever on the throne (James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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@Kaka2za Ndemi was a generation born out of shrinking land resources around the slopes of Nyandarua.They resulted in cutting down trees on high grounds to access more and fertile pieces.They were quite an arrogant young lot and would hear none of their elders.The name then was born out of "Gutema". Mathathi was a generation that "discovered" boiled meat and it's soup.It is said previous generations used to feed on roasted meat only.The name Mathathi was born from the name "Thathi" (Soup).There were other generations and i can give you names as below Manjiri Mamba Tene Agu Manduti Cuma Ciira Iregi Mathathi Ndemi Maina And there goes what this two arrogant generations used to boast."Gutiri wa Iregi utuire" This information is what was passed down to me by my grandma.It's authenticity,i wouldn't know.....Anyone?? ( I am finding this thread quite interesting and i do not expect contributions from "Rika ria tumira ndigithu"  ) Whisperer,Wakanyugi,Thimioni..... Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,058 Location: Gwitu
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Njung'e wrote:@Kaka2za Ndemi was a generation born out of shrinking land resources around the slopes of Nyandarua.They resulted in cutting down trees on high grounds to access more and fertile pieces.They were quite an arrogant young lot and would hear none of their elders.The name then was born out of "Gutema". Mathathi was a generation that "discovered" boiled meat and it's soup.It is said previous generations used to feed on roasted meat only.The name Mathathi was born from the name "Thathi" (Soup).There were other generations and i can give you names as below Manjiri Mamba Tene Agu Manduti Cuma Ciira Iregi Mathathi Ndemi Maina And there goes what this two arrogant generations used to boast."Gutiri wa Iregi utuire" This information is what was passed down to me by my grandma.It's authenticity,i wouldn't know.....Anyone?? ( I am finding this thread quite interesting and i do not expect contributions from "Rika ria tumira ndigithu"  ) Whisperer,Wakanyugi,Thimioni..... Thanks Njunge.Quite resourceful,I wish you could put this information in a book. Was Iregi generation superior to the rest? I am asking because people refer to statehouse as "Thingira wa Iregi" Truth forever on the scaffold Wrong forever on the throne (James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2007 Posts: 215
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Njung'e correct me..The Mbari ya Iregi.. is the generation that overthrew the women government ( Wangu wa makeri. This should have very few years before the white man and possibly 1800s.
I find the Gikungu and Kamba connection very interesting. Some legends will say that they belong to wamuyu one of the daughters that got kids out before she was ' married off'. Where the kambas beleive the came from some knee that swelled.
Ithanga..doesn't seem to have had such a long history. This prior independence was kamba land and was made part of murang no very long ago by Kenyatta.
Very interesting discussion
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/7/2010 Posts: 728 Location: Wazuaville
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kaka2za wrote:Njung'e wrote:@Kaka2za Ndemi was a generation born out of shrinking land resources around the slopes of Nyandarua.They resulted in cutting down trees on high grounds to access more and fertile pieces.They were quite an arrogant young lot and would hear none of their elders.The name then was born out of "Gutema". Mathathi was a generation that "discovered" boiled meat and it's soup.It is said previous generations used to feed on roasted meat only.The name Mathathi was born from the name "Thathi" (Soup).There were other generations and i can give you names as below Manjiri Mamba Tene Agu Manduti Cuma Ciira Iregi Mathathi Ndemi Maina And there goes what this two arrogant generations used to boast."Gutiri wa Iregi utuire" This information is what was passed down to me by my grandma.It's authenticity,i wouldn't know.....Anyone?? ( I am finding this thread quite interesting and i do not expect contributions from "Rika ria tumira ndigithu"  ) Whisperer,Wakanyugi,Thimioni..... Thanks Njunge.Quite resourceful,I wish you could put this information in a book. Was Iregi generation superior to the rest? I am asking because people refer to statehouse as "Thingira wa Iregi" Iregi means the defiant/rebellious ones from the word Kurega. Mbari ya iregi is credited with rebellion that upset an oppressive order (Wangu wa Makeri? maybe) and mainstreamed the democratic system of kiama (council of elders) among the Kikuyu. Kenyatta was leading a similar rebellion hence the name where he sat after overthrowing the colonial government. The new societal order meant that one became a member of the leaders' council by merit, and merit consisted of bravery in war (njamba), wealth (itonga) and charisma and integrity (mutongoria). One who exhibited two or three of these became a muthamaki merely a facilitator and coordinator of the council with veto power. Mbari ya iregi therefore brought about the culture of hardwork and wealth accumulation. The kiama was very powerful as it could prevent a man from taking on a second wife if they felt he could not take care of them i.e if he was a lazy type and/or without enough wealth. Ndemi on the other hand are credited with expanding Kikuyu territory and birthing the Kikuyu thirst for land beyond their borders. They cut down trees and expanded their land without approval from the elders. this generation was actually frowned upon for lack of respect and defiance, but to them land was getting scarce and the population was expanding while the ruling class was slow in giving direction to the people. For one to cut down trees and expand their individual or clan land they had to petition the elders who would deliberate and give a go ahead. If I have mixed up something naomba serikali ingilie kati.... "Money never sleeps"
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/17/2008 Posts: 1,234
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If am not wrong the Mau Mau were also referred to as the Iregi to connote the same characteristic of the original iregis.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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Siringi wrote:simonkabz wrote:washiku wrote:This is what my lower sch teacher wrote on the board...and the rest was a combination picked from either of this(I might have jumped some)...By the way I never forgot to read Kikuyu...when in Shags, I read for them a Kikuyu Bible fluently. I even have a Kikuyu Bible...I therefore thought its a simple language until I went through this thread. I didnt know it was such a complex language.
a,e,i,o,u,ĩ,ŭ. Eg aaaiiii..
ba,be,bi,bo,bu,bĩ,bŭ. Eg baba
ca,ce,ci,co,cu,cĩ,cŭ. Eg cucu
da,de,di,do,du,dĩ,dŭ. Eg
ga,ge,gi,go,gu,gĩ,gŭ.
ha,he,hi,ho,hu,hĩ,hŭ.
ja,je,ji,jo,ju,jĩ,jŭ.
ka,ke,ki,ko,ku,kĩ,kŭ.
ma,me,mi,mo,mu,mĩ,mŭ.
na,ne,ni,no,nu,nĩ,nŭ.
ra,re,ri,ro,ru,rĩ,rŭ.
ta,te,ti,to,tu,tĩ,tŭ.
wa,we,wi,wo,wu,wĩ,wŭ.
ya,ye,yi,yo,yu,yĩ,yŭ.
there are others that involves addition of n or m before some of the above
nda,nde,ndi,ndo,ndu,ndĩ,ndŭ. Eg Nduma
mba,mbe,mbi,mbo,mbu,mbĩ,mbŭ. Eg Mbembe
nja, nje,nji,njo,nju,njĩ,njŭ. Eg Njururi
hakuna kitu kama jajejijoju.....J doesn't stand alone at least in th e alphabet that I was taught. Refer to Clown's post. In fact, no kikuyu name has a stand alone J, but NJ eg, Wanja, Wanjau, Njau, Njarana, Njaramba...as for the spoken version hehehe There's no da de di do du dì dù either. "d" only appears in "nd" Ndùngù, Nduta, Ndiang'ui, ndùma,nduma, ndundu, ha ha ha Do you know the saying "ŭkuona 'D' ĩtarĩ 'N'"? Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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