What are you smoking. ?? Better comment about yourself as a believer.

Wakanyungi,

It behooves us to consider the stories of the 'vanquished' beside the 'victor'. It is injustice to paint the 'victor' as being the same with the 'vanquished'. Consider:

1. Belief A is in existence, same as belief B and they are different.
2. Adherents of belief B are losing peers to belief A.
3. Adherents of belief B now penalize and encumber adherents of belief A to it make hard, impossible the shift of adherents.
4. Later, adherents of belief B take up some aspects of belief A while maintaining their core beliefs under the guise and artifice of promoting nominal acceptance of belief A.
5. Thereafter, belief B retains membership and ascendance in its various forms.
6. Then we, here in Wazua, consequently assume, decide that belief B speaks for belief A when they are still different.

The narrative of belief A, is lost in translation and narration and instead the narrative of belief B is made prominent. That few traces of the existence of belief A can be found, except in the accusations of their persecutors - belief B does not in any way or form make them of less interest of study and comprehension.





Of all the conquered lands, Judea was the most troublesome for the Romans and its peoples the most hated in Rome. That you say it was hence 'easy' for the conquerors to borrow 'one God worship idea' from these conquered peoples is an interesting concession. They indeed 'borrowed' the idea and that's about it. The idea did not and could not supplant the pre-existing polytheistic ideas found within them. 'Victors' do not supplant their belief systems with that of the 'vanquished' who were not assimilated as were the Greeks. The Romans hence are not, cannot be the poster child, the repository, the reference of this one-god worship idea.





How then can you say that the Romans gift to the world was a good one? Perhaps you have not read of Henry IV of Germany? I am sure today with hindsight, he will be keenly interested in this point and refute it even.

The great nations of the earth today, owe their greatness to the antithesis of this Romans belief, in my example to belief A.

Think of USA, Australia, England, Germany, Scandinavia and the like. Their work ethic and 'advanced' societies (which latter day admirers such as Asians and Africans have copied with varying levels of success) is due to and has irrefutably arisen from the antithesis of the Romans belief aka protestantism. But be alive to the fact that realignments have since occurred.

Currently, they do not adhere to this belief but that in no way diminishes or mitigates its particular and specific contribution. Though the role of protestantism is now downplayed in their histories, it cannot be obliterated. That to me is why 'non believers' who cite Scandinavia, for instance, as the 'pinnacle of human endeavor and society without religion' are not being entirely honest and truthful.

My conclusion and my point is that the 'protestant' narrative is being lost whenever 'christianity' is put under the microscope. Perhaps 'Protestantism' a relatively modern terminology is not its best description since the dichotomy it represents was already in existence at the very start.

History is fascinating!!!!!!!

Ah, Wakanyungi,

You are consistent.

Are you saying you cannot consider any other narrative other than what the 'victor' tells you?

What I am trying to do has got very little to do with emotion as it has with objectivity. This is of investigation; it is hardly of romance and its attendant emotions of sympathy etc.

How do we reverse such an entrenched belief system you ask? We start by being objective, analytical. We start by examining the narratives we have not yet fed on. We start by putting aside marshy feelings and cherished desires.

On that score, the 'victors' tell us what they did, how they did, why they did etc. They even tell us where found most problems. For example, I was indoctrinated through printed stories and comics in my childhood how the Romans met 'tough' people in Gaul for example. Perhaps you recall them too. That is what they tell us happened. That is precisely my point. Have we read, examined, scrutinized the other side of the coin?

About the conundrum, simple, who 'father'?
From the description of his role, I think you are describing 'teacher' rather than 'father', no? It ceases to be a conundrum and becomes more of a romantic preference that is subject to time and place.

And you absolutely, totally, entirely sound and read like an old acquaintance of mine that I have grown to like debating with. lol.

If God knew that Satan would rebel and Adam and Eve would sin, why did He create them?



- If God knew that Adam and Even would sin, it means that he also knew that he would have to come in the person of Christ to redeem fallen man. This shows us just how much God loves us humans and great plans and purpose that he has for us, of which we cannot even fathom.

- God had you and I in mind when He created Adam and Eve. If He was afraid of their fall, then neither would we have ever existed, so, He went on and created them, knowing that He would have to pay the penalty for sin, in order to redeem fallen man.

- Earth after it's creation was different from Earth after the fall, in that, after the fall, sin had entered the Earth, and thus death. So, if our first parents did not fall, neither would there be death on Earth.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man (Adam) sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

James
1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

- There are lots of problems that plague the Earth, due to sin, such as disease, hunger etc..., but the greatest of all plagues is death. Christ paid the penalty for sin for humanity through His death, and overcame death, through His resurrection. All who partake of his grace that is freely offered now, will also partake of the resurrection at the second coming.

- If God knows the end from the beginning, it means that he also knows who will make it and who will not. If that is so, then how much influence do we have in determining our destiny?

- If the attitude is, let me do whatever I want in unrighteousness, because anyways, it's predetermined, then that's precisely the attitude that those who will not make it will have. The attitude of those who will make it, will be such that the individuals will be determined to overcome all temptations that they will encounter.

- The future is not predetermined, it's just that we have knowledge that God already knows what will unfold in the future, but, it's up to us to decide that which will unfold.

- We have tasted life, we have seen the potential of joy and goodness that can be experienced in God's creation, but we know that we are mortals, that one day will be our last, thus the most unspoken desire in all humans, the wish to not die, the wish for immortality, well, God has already made a way to immortality, it is free through Christ. God does not force any to accept, because He is love. If it was not genuine love, then we would not have the right to say no. This is free will.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

- Lucifer became satan when he chose to exercise his free will to disobey God, rebellion, and thus caused the existence of sin for the first time in the universe, which tempted Adam and Eve, thus sin entered Earth. After the cleansing of the universe from sin, when sin will be destroyed in the lake of fire, sin will never rise again the second time, for the whole universe will have had the knowledge of it's fruits.

Nahum 1:9 ... affliction shall not rise up the second time.

We did not choose to exist in the current world, but we can choose to exist eternally, in the coming world, the Earth re-created.

Simply put, God created man in His own image thus man has unlimited power and free will.

He does not influence our choices, though consequences are attached to each and every choice.

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live.

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Deuteronomy 30:15-20 - See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;