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If God knew that Satan would rebel and Adam and Eve would sin, why did He create them?
Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:XSK wrote:tycho wrote:wilyum wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:seppuku wrote: I can, however, infer that you are referring to the God of the Bible. Discussions about God are often colored by religious context. For instance many assume, wrongly, that God is limited to the deity described in the Christian Bible. In fact the Bible describes at least two Gods: the 'God of vengeance' in the old Testament and the 'God who is love' in the new. Note that both beings are plural entities, not singular. I am sure other religions have their own definitions too with varying nuances. But I believe the important point is your personal belief and the relationship you have with God, whoever you consider him/her/it to be. To paraphrase Jesus words: 'Whom do you believe God is?' seppuku wrote: Now, the God of the Bible has certain salient characteristics revealed in his Book. Among them are:
1) Omniscience - God is all knowing
2) Omnipotence - God is all powerful
3) Benevolence - God is good
I think a further point arises here. God could be all these things but he has the ultimate freedom to act. Therefore God can (and does, I believe) set aside the exercise of any of these powers, or delegate them to his creation as he pleases. This partly explains the 'illusion of separation,' where the creations of God have fallen in the deep sleep of believing they are separate from their creator. Yet almost every religion hammers this point over and over again 'God is in us/ we are in God/ we are made in Gods image/ God is omnipresent' etc etc. I wonder why it is so hard to get this simple message. are you implying that am God in a way? Of course you are! @tycho Have you read these two books? 1. Conversations with God 2. Home with God I find your "philosophy" strangely related to what the author of those two books attempts to put across to the rest of the humanity. No. I haven't read the books. But I checked on them and I found some treasure. Like, the idea of reincarnation, I just saw it fade out of relevance. How is it possible that two different people, seperated in spacetime have similar thoughts or even personalities? We like to think we are unique as individuals, but experience has proven my bias wrong. Personalities have patterns to the very 'least of symbols'. And patterns mean information templates or 'morphogenetic' systems that are linked to what I may call a 'human domain', which in turn entails 'everything'. That is, everything is linked to everything in an information network that travels very very fast. To and fro. And all this cosmic data is energy, and is intelligent in that it's goal is to preserve and conserve itself always. Being, is a 'data instance' or a pattern instance, but there are many data instances, which can be acquired or experienced. One only has to reach for them. So what links me to 'your writer are the questions we'd like answered. And others before sought to answer these questions; and their answers are stored in quantum packets. If you sync with their frequencies then you can share the data sets. Therefore one can be whoever he chooses to be at any time, with minimum physical motion. Like in a dream. Life is a cosmic dream, and Man is the dreamer. The grand architect. Death, somehow, is so easily conquered. In fact, there's no death. Knowing isn't just remembering, but creating. Becoming. Then everyone is completely unique as each individual would be subject to different experiences even though based on the same template. Becoming what and from what? Completely unique when information is shared? All experience is shared, and therefore not unique or 'exclusive'. 'From what to what'? All symbolic interaction involves revealing and concealing. The concealment is potential energy. Becoming is experiencing redefinition, ascent of power. Yes,exactly because information is shared we remain unique.It means different things to different people.Even if all information is shared unless all are in unison in its meaning then they remaining unique. It's much like the numbers in a sequence. Any apparently unique number can be expressed in terms of the other. Uniqueness is a matter of not seeing patterns; miscommunication. Is zero a number? 'Zero' is a number. I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:XSK wrote:tycho wrote:wilyum wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:seppuku wrote: I can, however, infer that you are referring to the God of the Bible. Discussions about God are often colored by religious context. For instance many assume, wrongly, that God is limited to the deity described in the Christian Bible. In fact the Bible describes at least two Gods: the 'God of vengeance' in the old Testament and the 'God who is love' in the new. Note that both beings are plural entities, not singular. I am sure other religions have their own definitions too with varying nuances. But I believe the important point is your personal belief and the relationship you have with God, whoever you consider him/her/it to be. To paraphrase Jesus words: 'Whom do you believe God is?' seppuku wrote: Now, the God of the Bible has certain salient characteristics revealed in his Book. Among them are:
1) Omniscience - God is all knowing
2) Omnipotence - God is all powerful
3) Benevolence - God is good
I think a further point arises here. God could be all these things but he has the ultimate freedom to act. Therefore God can (and does, I believe) set aside the exercise of any of these powers, or delegate them to his creation as he pleases. This partly explains the 'illusion of separation,' where the creations of God have fallen in the deep sleep of believing they are separate from their creator. Yet almost every religion hammers this point over and over again 'God is in us/ we are in God/ we are made in Gods image/ God is omnipresent' etc etc. I wonder why it is so hard to get this simple message. are you implying that am God in a way? Of course you are! @tycho Have you read these two books? 1. Conversations with God 2. Home with God I find your "philosophy" strangely related to what the author of those two books attempts to put across to the rest of the humanity. No. I haven't read the books. But I checked on them and I found some treasure. Like, the idea of reincarnation, I just saw it fade out of relevance. How is it possible that two different people, seperated in spacetime have similar thoughts or even personalities? We like to think we are unique as individuals, but experience has proven my bias wrong. Personalities have patterns to the very 'least of symbols'. And patterns mean information templates or 'morphogenetic' systems that are linked to what I may call a 'human domain', which in turn entails 'everything'. That is, everything is linked to everything in an information network that travels very very fast. To and fro. And all this cosmic data is energy, and is intelligent in that it's goal is to preserve and conserve itself always. Being, is a 'data instance' or a pattern instance, but there are many data instances, which can be acquired or experienced. One only has to reach for them. So what links me to 'your writer are the questions we'd like answered. And others before sought to answer these questions; and their answers are stored in quantum packets. If you sync with their frequencies then you can share the data sets. Therefore one can be whoever he chooses to be at any time, with minimum physical motion. Like in a dream. Life is a cosmic dream, and Man is the dreamer. The grand architect. Death, somehow, is so easily conquered. In fact, there's no death. Knowing isn't just remembering, but creating. Becoming. Then everyone is completely unique as each individual would be subject to different experiences even though based on the same template. Becoming what and from what? Completely unique when information is shared? All experience is shared, and therefore not unique or 'exclusive'. 'From what to what'? All symbolic interaction involves revealing and concealing. The concealment is potential energy. Becoming is experiencing redefinition, ascent of power. Yes,exactly because information is shared we remain unique.It means different things to different people.Even if all information is shared unless all are in unison in its meaning then they remaining unique. It's much like the numbers in a sequence. Any apparently unique number can be expressed in terms of the other. Uniqueness is a matter of not seeing patterns; miscommunication. Is zero a number? 'Zero' is a number. zero is a place holder..at best a symbol but not a number I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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And what's a number then, @digitek?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote: And what's a number then, @digitek?
if you are a pragmatic mathematician then it is a number..but then you @tycho are a philosopher..so zero is not a number I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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AlphDoti wrote:wilyum wrote:am wondering,anyone can explain this? @wilyum if you look at Satan and Adam, both of them disobeyed Allah. Adam disobeyed Allah and ate from the tree. Satan disobeyed Allah and didn't bow in honour before Adam. So if you say why did Allah crate Satan yet he would rebel, what about Adam? So you would have to say why did Allah create Adam also. Having provoked your mind a bit, let me give you an analogy. Assume you're an employee who works for a company, and you have a boss. One day the boss comes to you, his subordinate, the employee and says: look, I'm going to observe you closely for one week, paying attention to everything you do. Then after this one week, there are one of two things I will do. Either I will promote you, double your salary and give you a two month vacation, or I will fire you. One of these two. Now, when he does that, either he has a hidden agenda, maybe he already wants to promote the employee and give these priviledges but wants him to work hard. Or he already intends to fire him because he wants to get rid of him, and he knows even if he works hard for one week he won't be able to meet the standars. So what do you do as the employee?If you are that employee, you would go and think about it. So as the employee, you would say you know what? Who cares? You go 2 hours late to work in your pajamas. You walk in there with your hair unkept. And you just don't care about anything in the work place. You sit down on your desk and put your feet up on the table. You turn on the computer and watch some videos on youtube. Other employees walk in, they look at youand they wonder what you are doing, you crazy? You tell them you know I'm not crazy, but my boss told me he's goint to give me one week where he'll observe me. And you tell them that the boss furthersay he'll either promote me or fire me. You say that's not fair. What if he fires me after working hard for one week, what is the benefit? What do we say to this individual?Is that a correct approach? We say no. First, why were you hired? To work. Are they going to pay you for that? Yes. So either way you are expected to work. Second, now that you act like this, the boss will definitely fire you. If there was a chance he would promote you, you have killed it. So a rational person, will do his best to the best of his ability. And if the boss fires him, he has to brave him. The point is we don't know what the boss has in mind. But we know what is good and what is right, so we do it. To prevent the post being too long... I'll give you my point in the next post...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:XSK wrote:tycho wrote:wilyum wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:seppuku wrote: I can, however, infer that you are referring to the God of the Bible. Discussions about God are often colored by religious context. For instance many assume, wrongly, that God is limited to the deity described in the Christian Bible. In fact the Bible describes at least two Gods: the 'God of vengeance' in the old Testament and the 'God who is love' in the new. Note that both beings are plural entities, not singular. I am sure other religions have their own definitions too with varying nuances. But I believe the important point is your personal belief and the relationship you have with God, whoever you consider him/her/it to be. To paraphrase Jesus words: 'Whom do you believe God is?' seppuku wrote: Now, the God of the Bible has certain salient characteristics revealed in his Book. Among them are:
1) Omniscience - God is all knowing
2) Omnipotence - God is all powerful
3) Benevolence - God is good
I think a further point arises here. God could be all these things but he has the ultimate freedom to act. Therefore God can (and does, I believe) set aside the exercise of any of these powers, or delegate them to his creation as he pleases. This partly explains the 'illusion of separation,' where the creations of God have fallen in the deep sleep of believing they are separate from their creator. Yet almost every religion hammers this point over and over again 'God is in us/ we are in God/ we are made in Gods image/ God is omnipresent' etc etc. I wonder why it is so hard to get this simple message. are you implying that am God in a way? Of course you are! @tycho Have you read these two books? 1. Conversations with God 2. Home with God I find your "philosophy" strangely related to what the author of those two books attempts to put across to the rest of the humanity. No. I haven't read the books. But I checked on them and I found some treasure. Like, the idea of reincarnation, I just saw it fade out of relevance. How is it possible that two different people, seperated in spacetime have similar thoughts or even personalities? We like to think we are unique as individuals, but experience has proven my bias wrong. Personalities have patterns to the very 'least of symbols'. And patterns mean information templates or 'morphogenetic' systems that are linked to what I may call a 'human domain', which in turn entails 'everything'. That is, everything is linked to everything in an information network that travels very very fast. To and fro. And all this cosmic data is energy, and is intelligent in that it's goal is to preserve and conserve itself always. Being, is a 'data instance' or a pattern instance, but there are many data instances, which can be acquired or experienced. One only has to reach for them. So what links me to 'your writer are the questions we'd like answered. And others before sought to answer these questions; and their answers are stored in quantum packets. If you sync with their frequencies then you can share the data sets. Therefore one can be whoever he chooses to be at any time, with minimum physical motion. Like in a dream. Life is a cosmic dream, and Man is the dreamer. The grand architect. Death, somehow, is so easily conquered. In fact, there's no death. Knowing isn't just remembering, but creating. Becoming. Then everyone is completely unique as each individual would be subject to different experiences even though based on the same template. Becoming what and from what? Completely unique when information is shared? All experience is shared, and therefore not unique or 'exclusive'. 'From what to what'? All symbolic interaction involves revealing and concealing. The concealment is potential energy. Becoming is experiencing redefinition, ascent of power. Yes,exactly because information is shared we remain unique.It means different things to different people.Even if all information is shared unless all are in unison in its meaning then they remaining unique. It's much like the numbers in a sequence. Any apparently unique number can be expressed in terms of the other. Uniqueness is a matter of not seeing patterns; miscommunication. Is zero a number? 'Zero' is a number. Then using your example, what is the implication of 'zero' being a number? But I'll go further.Even though numbers in a sequence can be attributed to previous numbers,each new addition creates a totally new state.For me each individual is unique,special is a different case.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:XSK wrote:tycho wrote:wilyum wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:seppuku wrote: I can, however, infer that you are referring to the God of the Bible. Discussions about God are often colored by religious context. For instance many assume, wrongly, that God is limited to the deity described in the Christian Bible. In fact the Bible describes at least two Gods: the 'God of vengeance' in the old Testament and the 'God who is love' in the new. Note that both beings are plural entities, not singular. I am sure other religions have their own definitions too with varying nuances. But I believe the important point is your personal belief and the relationship you have with God, whoever you consider him/her/it to be. To paraphrase Jesus words: 'Whom do you believe God is?' seppuku wrote: Now, the God of the Bible has certain salient characteristics revealed in his Book. Among them are:
1) Omniscience - God is all knowing
2) Omnipotence - God is all powerful
3) Benevolence - God is good
I think a further point arises here. God could be all these things but he has the ultimate freedom to act. Therefore God can (and does, I believe) set aside the exercise of any of these powers, or delegate them to his creation as he pleases. This partly explains the 'illusion of separation,' where the creations of God have fallen in the deep sleep of believing they are separate from their creator. Yet almost every religion hammers this point over and over again 'God is in us/ we are in God/ we are made in Gods image/ God is omnipresent' etc etc. I wonder why it is so hard to get this simple message. are you implying that am God in a way? Of course you are! @tycho Have you read these two books? 1. Conversations with God 2. Home with God I find your "philosophy" strangely related to what the author of those two books attempts to put across to the rest of the humanity. No. I haven't read the books. But I checked on them and I found some treasure. Like, the idea of reincarnation, I just saw it fade out of relevance. How is it possible that two different people, seperated in spacetime have similar thoughts or even personalities? We like to think we are unique as individuals, but experience has proven my bias wrong. Personalities have patterns to the very 'least of symbols'. And patterns mean information templates or 'morphogenetic' systems that are linked to what I may call a 'human domain', which in turn entails 'everything'. That is, everything is linked to everything in an information network that travels very very fast. To and fro. And all this cosmic data is energy, and is intelligent in that it's goal is to preserve and conserve itself always. Being, is a 'data instance' or a pattern instance, but there are many data instances, which can be acquired or experienced. One only has to reach for them. So what links me to 'your writer are the questions we'd like answered. And others before sought to answer these questions; and their answers are stored in quantum packets. If you sync with their frequencies then you can share the data sets. Therefore one can be whoever he chooses to be at any time, with minimum physical motion. Like in a dream. Life is a cosmic dream, and Man is the dreamer. The grand architect. Death, somehow, is so easily conquered. In fact, there's no death. Knowing isn't just remembering, but creating. Becoming. Then everyone is completely unique as each individual would be subject to different experiences even though based on the same template. Becoming what and from what? Completely unique when information is shared? All experience is shared, and therefore not unique or 'exclusive'. 'From what to what'? All symbolic interaction involves revealing and concealing. The concealment is potential energy. Becoming is experiencing redefinition, ascent of power. Yes,exactly because information is shared we remain unique.It means different things to different people.Even if all information is shared unless all are in unison in its meaning then they remaining unique. It's much like the numbers in a sequence. Any apparently unique number can be expressed in terms of the other. Uniqueness is a matter of not seeing patterns; miscommunication. Is zero a number? 'Zero' is a number. Then using your example, what is the implication of 'zero' being a number? But I'll go further.Even though numbers in a sequence can be attributed to previous numbers,each new addition creates a totally new state.For me each individual is unique,special is a different case. I fail to see your argument. Express it fully. Perhaps formally.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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digitek1 wrote:tycho wrote: And what's a number then, @digitek?
if you are a pragmatic mathematician then it is a number..but then you @tycho are a philosopher..so zero is not a number Lol. I actually thought about it differently. Though you came very close. That is, for zero to be a symbol, there must be different kinds of zero in the zero. Like a zero of numbers within the 'ultimate zero'.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:XSK wrote:tycho wrote:wilyum wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:seppuku wrote: I can, however, infer that you are referring to the God of the Bible. Discussions about God are often colored by religious context. For instance many assume, wrongly, that God is limited to the deity described in the Christian Bible. In fact the Bible describes at least two Gods: the 'God of vengeance' in the old Testament and the 'God who is love' in the new. Note that both beings are plural entities, not singular. I am sure other religions have their own definitions too with varying nuances. But I believe the important point is your personal belief and the relationship you have with God, whoever you consider him/her/it to be. To paraphrase Jesus words: 'Whom do you believe God is?' seppuku wrote: Now, the God of the Bible has certain salient characteristics revealed in his Book. Among them are:
1) Omniscience - God is all knowing
2) Omnipotence - God is all powerful
3) Benevolence - God is good
I think a further point arises here. God could be all these things but he has the ultimate freedom to act. Therefore God can (and does, I believe) set aside the exercise of any of these powers, or delegate them to his creation as he pleases. This partly explains the 'illusion of separation,' where the creations of God have fallen in the deep sleep of believing they are separate from their creator. Yet almost every religion hammers this point over and over again 'God is in us/ we are in God/ we are made in Gods image/ God is omnipresent' etc etc. I wonder why it is so hard to get this simple message. are you implying that am God in a way? Of course you are! @tycho Have you read these two books? 1. Conversations with God 2. Home with God I find your "philosophy" strangely related to what the author of those two books attempts to put across to the rest of the humanity. No. I haven't read the books. But I checked on them and I found some treasure. Like, the idea of reincarnation, I just saw it fade out of relevance. How is it possible that two different people, seperated in spacetime have similar thoughts or even personalities? We like to think we are unique as individuals, but experience has proven my bias wrong. Personalities have patterns to the very 'least of symbols'. And patterns mean information templates or 'morphogenetic' systems that are linked to what I may call a 'human domain', which in turn entails 'everything'. That is, everything is linked to everything in an information network that travels very very fast. To and fro. And all this cosmic data is energy, and is intelligent in that it's goal is to preserve and conserve itself always. Being, is a 'data instance' or a pattern instance, but there are many data instances, which can be acquired or experienced. One only has to reach for them. So what links me to 'your writer are the questions we'd like answered. And others before sought to answer these questions; and their answers are stored in quantum packets. If you sync with their frequencies then you can share the data sets. Therefore one can be whoever he chooses to be at any time, with minimum physical motion. Like in a dream. Life is a cosmic dream, and Man is the dreamer. The grand architect. Death, somehow, is so easily conquered. In fact, there's no death. Knowing isn't just remembering, but creating. Becoming. Then everyone is completely unique as each individual would be subject to different experiences even though based on the same template. Becoming what and from what? Completely unique when information is shared? All experience is shared, and therefore not unique or 'exclusive'. 'From what to what'? All symbolic interaction involves revealing and concealing. The concealment is potential energy. Becoming is experiencing redefinition, ascent of power. Yes,exactly because information is shared we remain unique.It means different things to different people.Even if all information is shared unless all are in unison in its meaning then they remaining unique. It's much like the numbers in a sequence. Any apparently unique number can be expressed in terms of the other. Uniqueness is a matter of not seeing patterns; miscommunication. Is zero a number? 'Zero' is a number. Then using your example, what is the implication of 'zero' being a number? But I'll go further.Even though numbers in a sequence can be attributed to previous numbers,each new addition creates a totally new state.For me each individual is unique,special is a different case. I fail to see your argument. Express it fully. Perhaps formally. We're unique but from a Christian perspective Jesus is special.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@symbols, who are 'we', and in what sense are we 'unique'?
And what do you mean by saying 'Jesus' was/is 'special'?
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If God knew that Satan would rebel and Adam and Eve would sin, why did He create them?
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