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EAC...TZ in a dilemma???
Mastermind
#51 Posted : Friday, November 08, 2013 8:07:27 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/25/2012
Posts: 1,624
Location: Langley
Njung'e wrote:
kikwete's reaction in parliament (Note that the ever so "gentleman" was mad!

http://www.theeastafrica...4/-/y2w48l/-/index.html


An opinion by a Tanzanian!!

http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/OpEd/comment/No-matter-how-many-legs-the-CoW-grows-Tanzania-belongs-in-EAC-/-/434750/2057152/-/t1115u/-/index.html



Michael123 hasn't given up?
If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them.
Alba
#52 Posted : Friday, November 08, 2013 8:08:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
Quote:
I have a feeling that @Alba is either a TZnian or a fellow from outside East Africa...


U R a Typical Kenyan who does not want to deal with the truth

Quote:
It is true TZnians think Kenyans are very tribal, but the question is how will Kenyans tribalism back home influence or play a part in TZnians social and political progression??? tribalism is not a physical entity that can be transported and damped. To me the TZnians claims that since Kenyans are tribal will make TZ tribal is fallicious and utter nonesense!!


What a bogus statement. A country’s culture is easily influenced by other countries. Look how American culture continues to permeate into Kenya. When I was growing up there was nobody celebrating American holidays like Valentines day. Kenyan youth are now heavily influenced by black American culture.
Now look at the United States. Foreign cultures have permeated the landscape. People celebrate St Patricks day which is Irish and even Cinco de Mayo which is a Mexican holiday.
In the UK and US, people now eat Chinese food, Indian food, etc. etc.
And you say culture cannot be exported ? Which planet do you live on ?
Havent the Tanzanians exported Bongo Flava to Kenya and did’nt the Congolese export their music to Kenya in the 1970s ?
In Kenya, the culture of tribalism was founded by Kenyatta and since then, every president has been tribalistic. If the East African Federation were to come fruition, it would be so easy for Kenyan politicians to wake up any latent tribal inclinations that Tanzanians might have. Thats what they are afraid of. Kenya might not have been a tribalistic society either if we had a different cadre of leaders. But it was our leaders who awoke our tribal inclinations.

Quote:
TZ is very corrupt and especially when they are dealing with a foreigner...further more it originates from them not foreigners...Do not preach to us how clean the TZ is..corruption is corruption whether it is carried out locally or internationally.


They may be corrupt but they are surely not as corrupt as Kenya. Again look at the Transparency index. And in Kenya , corruption is a cancer that is literally killing Kenyans
Quote:

Jeez!!!criminal activities in TZ are rare? my foot!!!We also have the locals in TZ do it albeit in smaller scale than Kenya!


Crime in Tanzania is small time compared to Kenya. Everyone knows that. I am sure you do to. Crime is making Kenya unlivable

Quote:
This is very foolish of TZnians...A couple of years back Botswana had a similar mentality and the then President Festus Mogae looked further ahead and saw a need for the unavailable expertise and technology which could only be sourced from outside the borders if Botswana had to progress...The locals were against this, but the government went ahead...This got Botswana to where it is now...


It may be foolish but its their country and if they have the prerogative to decide whether they need Kenyans or not. Kenyans have no business telling them whether they can accept Kenyan expertise or not.

Quote:
TZ chased away Rwandese the other day and there is also a simmering discontent between them and Malawi...What do these events tell you about TZ...they are an island unto themselves and they do not need anyone else!!


Again its their country. If they do not want Rwandese squatters then they can chase them if they want to.

Quote:
Yea!!Not when South Africa is screwing them right left and centre through the biased SADC and SACU...Kenyas economy is more of an open type which accommodates the modern day capitalsm and is mostly driven by the local people and other investors...


Oh what a joke. Kenya’s economy may be more open but the results do not show it. For the last 10 years or so, Tanzania’s GDP has been growing at about 7% whereas Kenya has been growing at 4.5% . And despite being routed by Tanzania you are still waxing lyrical about Kenya's economy.

Quote:
TZ is still reeling from the effects of socialism and that is why the locals are still poor with very little disposable incomes...also you do not progress economically when you have a lazy population...never!!!


And you think Kenyans are not poor ?
You think Tanzanians are not progressing ? Oh please tanzania's economy is growing much faster than Kenya.
I do not know whether to laugh or dismiss that.

And TZ may still be reeling from the effects of socialism but Kenya is reeling from tribalism and corruption that is literally killing Kenyans. Just think back to PEV 2007. And we haven’t learned anything. We are still as tribal as ever
nakujua
#53 Posted : Friday, November 08, 2013 8:42:03 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
InnovateGuy wrote:
I like Kikwete's anger.

very genuine anger, watered with a gentlemanly aura, spiced up with soft lies and a palpable sense of profound indignation.
Amores
#54 Posted : Friday, November 08, 2013 10:01:21 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/25/2011
Posts: 2,103
Location: Nrb
Have KOT started 'someone tell Tanzanians?' @alba has decided yeye ni msemaji was TZ and will stop at nothing until we get hiyo point:that we stink and pure TZ does not want to be near us,well,do they have to join the EAC?
I am happy
masukuma
#55 Posted : Friday, November 08, 2013 10:01:38 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
so... TZ's economy will overtake Kenya's in our life time... so??? for some reasons we africans need to style up. why do we think wealth is finite and in order for me to get rich you must remain where you are or get poor? if TZ's economy overtakes Kenya's economy and both are more than double their current size - who will complain? as I once said - its not a race!

Quote:
If they cannot engage with their natural partners, they will not be able to engage with the artificial ones they cobbled together only the other day.

We are partners in it to better our lives but not to get the better of the other. Hizi laini zilichorwa kwa makaratasi zinatusumbua sana akili.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Lolest!
#56 Posted : Friday, November 08, 2013 10:41:33 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
@Alba, we have issues yes, but that's not what is keeping Tz away. It's land and jobs. These other issues sijui crime are minor ones. Tz is not the only safe country in EAC. UG and RW are also very safe...these squirrel excuses you are raising on behalf of Tanzanians need a new thread titled 'The Trouble With Kenya'
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#57 Posted : Friday, November 08, 2013 10:48:04 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Let's not forget what Museveni once told us. Being proud of being the best in EA is like being proud of being the tallest dwarf! That's the unfortunate path @alba is taking this debate.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Kaigangio
#58 Posted : Saturday, November 09, 2013 1:41:25 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
Alba wrote:
Quote:
I have a feeling that @Alba is either a TZnian or a fellow from outside East Africa...


U R a Typical Kenyan who does not want to deal with the truth

Yes! I am a typical kenyan who does not want to deal with lies in the truth Alba...

Quote:
It is true TZnians think Kenyans are very tribal, but the question is how will Kenyans tribalism back home influence or play a part in TZnians social and political progression??? tribalism is not a physical entity that can be transported and damped. To me the TZnians claims that since Kenyans are tribal will make TZ tribal is fallicious and utter nonesense!!


What a bogus statement. A country’s culture is easily influenced by other countries. Look how American culture continues to permeate into Kenya. When I was growing up there was nobody celebrating American holidays like Valentines day. Kenyan youth are now heavily influenced by black American culture.
Now look at the United States. Foreign cultures have permeated the landscape. People celebrate St Patricks day which is Irish and even Cinco de Mayo which is a Mexican holiday.
In the UK and US, people now eat Chinese food, Indian food, etc. etc.
And you say culture cannot be exported ? Which planet do you live on ?
Havent the Tanzanians exported Bongo Flava to Kenya and did’nt the Congolese export their music to Kenya in the 1970s ?
In Kenya, the culture of tribalism was founded by Kenyatta and since then, every president has been tribalistic. If the East African Federation were to come fruition, it would be so easy for Kenyan politicians to wake up any latent tribal inclinations that Tanzanians might have. Thats what they are afraid of. Kenya might not have been a tribalistic society either if we had a different cadre of leaders. But it was our leaders who awoke our tribal inclinations.


I am not very sure Alba that I do celebrate anything TZnian...may be yourself...

Neither do I or any known family member of mine have any TZnian affiliations even after our grandparents long stay in TZ...

Africas entanglement with foreign cultures especially with your likes has been rather fascinating and not surprising at all...Nobody is forcing you to embrace them after all it is a matter of free will...

by the way Alba how much of your culture have you exported to US, UK etc despite having so many your countrymen in those individual countries than we do have in TZ???

Quote:
TZ is very corrupt and especially when they are dealing with a foreigner...further more it originates from them not foreigners...Do not preach to us how clean the TZ is..corruption is corruption whether it is carried out locally or internationally.


They may be corrupt but they are surely not as corrupt as Kenya. Again look at the Transparency index. And in Kenya , corruption is a cancer that is literally killing Kenyans
Quote:


I do not depend on TI for things that I do see with my own eyes Alba...We may be corrupt, but corruption in kenya was never brought to us, rather it originated from ourselves...You see Alba a thief who steals a chicken and the one who steals a herd of cattle are both thieves...hope you are intelligent enough to know this!

Jeez!!!criminal activities in TZ are rare? my foot!!!We also have the locals in TZ do it albeit in smaller scale than Kenya!


Crime in Tanzania is small time compared to Kenya. Everyone knows that. I am sure you do to. Crime is making Kenya unlivable

Mmmmhhh I hope the 40million people who live in Kenya are just but virtual human images!!! I am not aware that crime in Kenya is making Kenya unlivable...If that was true, why do we have so many foreigners chasing the Kenyan citizenship???

Quote:
This is very foolish of TZnians...A couple of years back Botswana had a similar mentality and the then President Festus Mogae looked further ahead and saw a need for the unavailable expertise and technology which could only be sourced from outside the borders if Botswana had to progress...The locals were against this, but the government went ahead...This got Botswana to where it is now...


It may be foolish but its their country and if they have the prerogative to decide whether they need Kenyans or not. Kenyans have no business telling them whether they can accept Kenyan expertise or not.

I don't quite remember any one time when kenya was begging TZ to accept her expertise...It is there for any takers willing to pay a price for it...You see Alba the situation is like TZ being in an ocean or lake fishing...If it catches an undesirable fish, she returns it back to the water and throws back the hook into the water again hoping to catch the right fish...So nobody is stopping TZ from choosing whom it wants to co-operate with. It is their right.

Quote:
TZ chased away Rwandese the other day and there is also a simmering discontent between them and Malawi...What do these events tell you about TZ...they are an island unto themselves and they do not need anyone else!!


Again its their country. If they do not want Rwandese squatters then they can chase them if they want to.

So why is she crying foul when they see other states making their decisions on the way forward for their countries without her (TZ)???

Quote:
Yea!!Not when South Africa is screwing them right left and centre through the biased SADC and SACU...Kenyas economy is more of an open type which accommodates the modern day capitalsm and is mostly driven by the local people and other investors...


Oh what a joke. Kenya’s economy may be more open but the results do not show it. For the last 10 years or so, Tanzania’s GDP has been growing at about 7% whereas Kenya has been growing at 4.5% . And despite being routed by Tanzania you are still waxing lyrical about Kenya's economy.

It is not a joke Alba...What does TZ has to show for being a staunch member of SADC for all those years??? Yes, we have struggled with our economy to get it to wherever it is despite all the challenges...limited natural resources and limited agricultural land, but we are still working hard as ever...Personally i am very proud of what I have been doing for my government/country, not what the government/country has been doing for me...

Quote:
TZ is still reeling from the effects of socialism and that is why the locals are still poor with very little disposable incomes...also you do not progress economically when you have a lazy population...never!!!


And you think Kenyans are not poor ?
You think Tanzanians are not progressing ? Oh please tanzania's economy is growing much faster than Kenya.
I do not know whether to laugh or dismiss that.


Nobody said Kenyans are not poor and nobody said TZ is not economically progressing, so don't bring some uncalled for distractions if you have run out of fuel Alba...Everyone else except me have always known that TZs economy is growing at an astronomical speed...always Alba!!!

And TZ may still be reeling from the effects of socialism but Kenya is reeling from tribalism and corruption that is literally killing Kenyans. Just think back to PEV 2007. And we haven’t learned anything. We are still as tribal as ever

When i think back to PEV 2007 I do not connect the events then to corruption or TZs failure to engage other Eastern African states to offer her a soft landing spot in any further inter state trade pacts and negotiations...or am i wearing lead goggles!!!

...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
mkeiyd
#59 Posted : Saturday, November 09, 2013 12:11:09 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 1,182
Alba wrote:

And you think Kenyans are not poor ?
You think Tanzanians are not progressing ? Oh please tanzania's economy is growing much faster than Kenya.
I do not know whether to laugh or dismiss that.

And TZ may still be reeling from the effects of socialism but Kenya is reeling from tribalism and corruption that is literally killing Kenyans. Just think back to PEV 2007. And we haven’t learned anything. We are still as tribal as ever


@Alba,
With Tanzania's growing economy, why do they have to export their beggars here? Why can't they beg from their "growing" economy?

Burundi is the most corrupt country in East Africa, why are holier-than-though Tanzanians going to bed with them? How safe is DRC?

Who said,Tanzania is not their country? What everyone is saying is, they can have their country as the rest forge unity. Why [Tanzanians] are they whining?

Pili pili washakataa na wengine wakiila, yawaasha. WHY?

So they are afraid of Kenyans,Ugandans, Rwandeese.

@Alba, You can't see the pattern? They just want to hang around with chicken like Burundi & DRC, because in that grouping, they'll feel like swans.

Let the eagles [Ke,Ug &Rw] spread their wings as the chicken [TZ,Burundi] coalesce.



masukuma
#60 Posted : Saturday, November 09, 2013 1:02:29 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Being the best in EAC is like being the tallest dwarf! Its to TZ's benefit and our collective benefit to have them in EAC. We really don't have a choice!! People need to understand that while all this apprehension may be justified the world does not care!! I really want TZ, Burundi,DRC, Ethiopia and South Sudan in this union because it makes cents and sense.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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