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Westgate-like shooting in New Jersey mall
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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jaggernaut wrote:alma wrote:Before someone starts shouting up and down about how Kenya is at the us, please also report that they identified the name of the gunman, have even searched his house and reports just in say that he's dead. For real not the cow meat type at westgate.
Don't fail to put up photos of the hundreds of cops who were there in under 5 minutes and not a single army officer.
nkt! Surely you can't compare a situation whereby a lone gunman enters a mall, shoots at a few cctv cameras while ignoring all the shoppers and then shoots himself dead with one where AK47 armed terrorists storm westgate and shoot everyone on site. Jagman Washana na hii maneno of being kdf spokesman. The problem at westgate was not that terrorists entered the mall. (that's a problem for nsis to deal with) The problem is kdf f***ed up big time. You can't change that narrative and the person who started this thread had that in mind. This is a sample of the reaction of the APPROPRIATE security officers who were NEEDED in such a situation.   As you can see Jag, not a single bazooka weilding drunk army officer And not a single officer with white paper bags with water. If you still haven't learned what went wrong at westgate, then we are in bigger trouble than when it happened. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/31/2009 Posts: 743
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jaggernaut wrote:madollar wrote:jaggernaut wrote:What has surprised me is that the cops put the mall on lock down and weren't allowing anyone to leave. I thought the No.1 priority would have been to initiate a rescue and get as many people out as possible, like kenyan cops did at westgate? What if the gunman continued shooting? if you recall it was reported that is how some westgate attackers escaped that could have informed the lockdown at the us mall.Westgate will be used as a case study alot of lessons will be learnt What if the kenyan cops ordered a lock down of westgate and didn't allow anyone to leave the mall until they screened all those who were inside?  total chaos
Problems can get out of proportion, and not only in the wee small hours. Don't let the problems eclipse the Master. Let the Master eclipse the problems.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/21/2009 Posts: 573
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alma wrote:jaggernaut wrote:alma wrote:Before someone starts shouting up and down about how Kenya is at the us, please also report that they identified the name of the gunman, have even searched his house and reports just in say that he's dead. For real not the cow meat type at westgate.
Don't fail to put up photos of the hundreds of cops who were there in under 5 minutes and not a single army officer.
nkt! Surely you can't compare a situation whereby a lone gunman enters a mall, shoots at a few cctv cameras while ignoring all the shoppers and then shoots himself dead with one where AK47 armed terrorists storm westgate and shoot everyone on site. Jagman Washana na hii maneno of being kdf spokesman. The problem at westgate was not that terrorists entered the mall. (that's a problem for nsis to deal with) The problem is kdf f***ed up big time. You can't change that narrative and the person who started this thread had that in mind. This is a sample of the reaction of the APPROPRIATE security officers who were NEEDED in such a situation. As you can see Jag, not a single bazooka weilding drunk army officerAnd not a single officer with white paper bags with water. If you still haven't learned what went wrong at westgate, then we are in bigger trouble than when it happened. I at times wonder what some people are doing in Kenya if they can,t think and act like Kenyans. We got our problems yes but for heaven's sake lets fix our problems Kenyan style and we are damned good at that.Otherwise if you are not ready to import "superior" army for us, KDF is my army entrusted to me by the constitution to protect us all.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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mnjoro wrote:
I at times wonder what some people are doing in Kenya if they can,t think and act like Kenyans.
We got our problems yes but for heaven's sake lets fix our problems Kenyan style and we are damned good at that.Otherwise if you are not ready to import "superior" army for us, KDF is my army entrusted to me by the constitution to protect us all.
First of all mnjoro, maybe you can't see, but those are not army guys. Those are policemen. Incase you can't see clearly.  Maybe you don't also know mnjoro, but we don't need to import anyone, they are right here on Thika Highway, they were even on the scene. Some clever guy decided that its best to take looters instead. Ati fix kenyan problems kenyan style. nkt! This fake patriotism will be your undoing. As for your constitutional diatribe, I'll let you read it again as its very confusing. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/8/2010 Posts: 1,734
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alma wrote:mnjoro wrote:
I at times wonder what some people are doing in Kenya if they can,t think and act like Kenyans.
We got our problems yes but for heaven's sake lets fix our problems Kenyan style and we are damned good at that.Otherwise if you are not ready to import "superior" army for us, KDF is my army entrusted to me by the constitution to protect us all.
First of all mnjoro, maybe you can't see, but those are not army guys. Those are policemen. Incase you can't see clearly. Maybe you don't also know mnjoro, but we don't need to import anyone, they are right here on Thika Highway, they were even on the scene. Some clever guy decided that its best to take looters instead. Ati fix kenyan problems kenyan style. nkt! This fake patriotism will be your undoing. As for your constitutional diatribe, I'll let you read it again as its very confusing. This so called lone gunman, when he entered the mall what did he do?, he just shot the cctv camera. The terrorist at westgate what did they do when they entered, hurled grenade at the restaurant then started shooting indicriminately at the shoppers including that ka-watchie at the gate who chewed more bullets even after he was dead. Thats the difference to the reaction between westgate and westfield. From those names i may as well stop going to any mall that has a west in it Life is an endless adventure
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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kenya is kenya..usa is usa...accept and move on or movethere I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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digitek1 wrote:kenya is kenya..usa is usa...accept and move on or movethere Agreed with you. Kenya is where people supposed to protect you instead steal from you in paper bags and lie to you for 4 weeks before accepting that it actually happened. Wow! I feel so proud right now. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/21/2009 Posts: 573
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freiks wrote:alma wrote:mnjoro wrote:
I at times wonder what some people are doing in Kenya if they can,t think and act like Kenyans.
We got our problems yes but for heaven's sake lets fix our problems Kenyan style and we are damned good at that.Otherwise if you are not ready to import "superior" army for us, KDF is my army entrusted to me by the constitution to protect us all.
First of all mnjoro, maybe you can't see, but those are not army guys. Those are policemen.Incase you can't see clearly. Maybe you don't also know mnjoro, but we don't need to import anyone, they are right here on Thika Highway, they were even on the scene. Some clever guy decided that its best to take looters instead. Ati fix kenyan problems kenyan style. nkt! This fake patriotism will be your undoing. As for your constitutional diatribe, I'll let you read it again as its very confusing. This so called lone gunman, when he entered the mall what did he do?, he just shot the cctv camera. The terrorist at westgate what did they do when they entered, hurled grenade at the restaurant then started shooting indicriminately at the shoppers including that ka-watchie at the gate who chewed more bullets even after he was dead. Thats the difference to the reaction between westgate and westfield. From those names i may as well stop going to any mall that has a west in it @Alma pole i had not seen these are policemen.But on the same note i didn't say the army are in the constitution while the police are in the dictionary.They are all in security doesn't matter who acts when and where. The constitution you so arrogantly disregard, its the one any Kenyan officeholder swears to uphold including the president.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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mnjoro wrote:freiks wrote:alma wrote:mnjoro wrote:
I at times wonder what some people are doing in Kenya if they can,t think and act like Kenyans.
We got our problems yes but for heaven's sake lets fix our problems Kenyan style and we are damned good at that.Otherwise if you are not ready to import "superior" army for us, KDF is my army entrusted to me by the constitution to protect us all.
First of all mnjoro, maybe you can't see, but those are not army guys. Those are policemen.Incase you can't see clearly. Maybe you don't also know mnjoro, but we don't need to import anyone, they are right here on Thika Highway, they were even on the scene. Some clever guy decided that its best to take looters instead. Ati fix kenyan problems kenyan style. nkt! This fake patriotism will be your undoing. As for your constitutional diatribe, I'll let you read it again as its very confusing. This so called lone gunman, when he entered the mall what did he do?, he just shot the cctv camera. The terrorist at westgate what did they do when they entered, hurled grenade at the restaurant then started shooting indicriminately at the shoppers including that ka-watchie at the gate who chewed more bullets even after he was dead. Thats the difference to the reaction between westgate and westfield. From those names i may as well stop going to any mall that has a west in it @Alma pole i had not seen these are policemen.But on the same note i didn't say the army are in the constitution while the police are in the dictionary.They are all in security doesn't matter who acts when and where. The constitution you so arrogantly disregard, its the one any Kenyan officeholder swears to uphold including the president. Apana jali @mnjoro inaitwa afternoon arguments. No beef. but again read that constitution again. The army being in the streets of Kenya doing whatever they were doing, was against the constitutional order. It's just that in Kenya we are told by guys like digitek to accept and move on. The army wasn't supposed to be there and that's why we are in the mess we are in. I follow the constitution to the exclusion of whatever kdf spokesmen say happened. In this case, they weren't supposed to be there, they had no authority to be there. But that will be a lesson in an American police class room somewhere but not in Kenya. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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The 'gun man', why did he do what he did?
He surely punished himself by committing suicide, but what else did he do? He seems to have been showing the 'authorities' that he had 'ultimate power' at least over his self. There was a zone that not even that his 'oppressors' could reach, while he could.
This isn't any different from what the Al Shabaab did. His death was a just a point on the terrorist continuum, and I doubt whether it's qualitatively different from the Westgate attack.
As for the American police, can one say they performed better than our KDF? I doubt it. They may not have 'looted' or 'bombed' the place; they may have restricted movement, but they couldn't do what really mattered- prevent the event or even protect the citizens who were in the mall.
If there are lessons to be learned then they are not so direct.
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