tycho wrote:I don't think there's anything like a church that doesn't fleece and enslave her members.
Only that some use sophisticated methods and institutions.
Depends on your definition of 'Church'.
The church in scripture is the fellowship those who have trusted in Jesus Christ and are born again, born not of natural descent or a husbands will, but born of God.(John 1:13 soma yote)
The Church in Scripture had no requirements on its members as far as money of goods or even time.
Everything was offered freely without compulsion.
No Indulgencies to pay
No seeds to plant
No tithes to pay
No firstfruits to pay
No love offerings etc
No arcs to move :)
No holidays to pay for
No Ministry to partner with
No standing orders to fill out
No pledge forms to commit to
Everything that was ever given was given freely without compulsion.
There is a story in scripture where Christians were sharing everything they had so that they would be more or less equal..and that the needy would not lack. One couple Ananias and Saphira after selling their land did not disclose the whole amount to the apostles and was asked,
Acts 5:1-11
Quote:
"4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”
Meaning? He didnt even have to give it in the first place!
The issue the apostles has with this is not that it was not the full amount but that they chose to lie about the amount.
There would have been zero problems if they just kept everything to themselves.
But because he wanted to conform to the prevailing mood of giving everything albeit deceptively and kept something back for themselves, they both died.
This scripture has of course been mutilated to scare people who do not examine scripture for themselves into thinking that Almighty God would kill you for your money.
Who on earth, in heaven or under the earth can ever give anything to God ?
Even your 'righteousness' does not benefit him in any way.. or your wickedness diminish him.
Job 35
Quote:
5 Look up at the heavens and see;
gaze at the clouds so high above you.
6 If you sin, how does that affect him?
If your sins are many, what does that do to him?
7 If you are righteous, what do you give to him,
or what does he receive from your hand?
8 Your wickedness only affects humans like yourself,
and your righteousness only other people.