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Manual vs Automatic
nyangao
#31 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:57:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/26/2008
Posts: 190
Jaflog,the engine computer system is linked to the auto gear box and the integration of the two ensures fuel effeciency.when u replace the gear box,u disconnect the integration and the system ir 'confused'.it cannot recognise the gearbox .

hey
simonkabz
#32 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:07:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
@kanda,u r spot on. Selecting OD OFF while cruising essentially disengages gear no 5 (correctly referred to as the overdrive) n the thing simply shifts downwards to gear no 4. This can also be achieved by simply flooring the accelerator. The effect of the OD is therefore ONLY noticeable at speeds above 80kph. Driving in town with the OD OFF is the height of ignorance,there is no effect as the speeds r low hence lower gears. A simple rule of thumb,when driving any car,ensure the warning panel lights are all off,including the OD light. @mburu,ensure the premio isnt 2000cc /D4 engine.

The only reason why some people are still alive is coz its illegal to shoot them!!
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
majimaji
#33 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:29:00 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/4/2007
Posts: 1,162

@simonkabz

What's wrong with a D4 2000 engine?
I have one and it's superb
Yako ina shida gani?

In man prudence,in woman patience - Jacob Cats
mukiha
#34 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:36:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@simonkabz & @kanda; you are both spot on.

The greatest factor in fuel consumption is not the size of the engine,nor the transmission system (auto/manual/4wd/2fwd/2rwd Awd etc)! It is in the way you drive!! Consider this: they who delivered my Mazda Familia 4wd AT from the port to Nairobi consumed 60 litres of fuel on the journey. When I go on holiday to the coast with the car nearly fully laden,I consume about 40 litres on the returm journey.

Same car,same trip and one driver takes 50% more fuel. And dont say that he cheated me. No,he's my buddy and I know how he drive....he imagines he is Shekar Mehta!!!

On this overdrive thing: it is confusing....in some cars it is labelled OD and in others it is labelled LOCK.

If your car is labelled OD:
Engaging the overdrive means that the car will automatically shift up to one gear ABOVE that set on the lever. Thus if you place the lever in position S (1),then the AT will shift up to gear 2....and when the lever is in position D (3),the AT will shift all the way to gear 4 [not labelled on the lever].

Disengaging the overdrive means the car will not exceed the set gear...infact you can drive it like a manual car starting from gear 1-to-2-to-3. However,the gear ratios of an automatic are very different from those of a manual car...gear 1[auto] is equivallent to something like gear 0.7[manual] and gear 3[auto] is equal to approx gear 3.8[manual]!!

If your car is labelled LOCK
When you engage the LOCK,you lock the car in the gear sellected on the lever...it will not shift up or down.....a very useful function when driving in heavy traffic,up steep hills,when stuck in the mud etc

When you disengage the LOCK,you release the gears and the car will shift up to one gear above that set on the lever [this is equivallent to engaging the OD]

======

When driving an AT in normal conditions (no heavy traffic,no steep hills etc),you can save a lot of fuel by 'forcing' it to shift upwards earlier. You do this by releasing the accelerator momentariry and then pressing it down gently [not to the floor!!!!!!]. That way,you get it to gear 4 at about 50km/h instead of the 100km/h if you leave it to decide.

But; if you love your speed and quick accellerations,then you shouldn't be discussing fuel efficiency - whether the car is MT or AT!!!

Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
simonkabz
#35 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 7:01:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
@majimaji,I have a way of doing ma thing. If at least 5pple complain about sth,I dont touch it. This goes 4the engine in question and the shameful GDI mubishi engines. Same for any chinese vehicle of whatever make. Im also keen on consumption coz I wouldnt wanna drive with one eye on the fuel gauge-very dangerous! I admire subarus from a distance as i know numerous facts about them that i dnt like. Do it ua way my brother,its the best thing!

The only reason why some people are still alive is coz its illegal to shoot them!!
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Njunge
#36 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:43:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@Kanda,

We are essentially saying the same thing.Taking off O/D simply means that you are shifting the car to the next lower gear thus giving yourself more power at hand (or is it foot?).

@Mukiha,

True most A/T GBs have four levels .,but there are models with higher levels.The highest this far would be the Merc G7 A/T gearbox with 7 levels



Yombo dhier....!!
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
tuvok
#37 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:11:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/2/2007
Posts: 536
O/D

Very useful conversations going on.. To add on.

For a 4 speed AT:
O/D Off - prevents shift into 4th gear - greater accl (lights up on the dash)
O/D On - lower engine revs at higher gears - greater fuel economy

Some good link here:

On fuel economy. I came across this : - i think there's loads of such tips online.

Perhaps someone should do a study for our unique driving conditions.


++++

From my reading up online,the GDI/D4 engines can be troublesome especially if you don't take care of them.

I also drive the D4 2000cc corona premio ... So far (almost 2 years) no problems at all. I have pal with a similar car which he's had for &gt; 18 months. I also have a pal whose driven a Mitsubishi GDI for nearly 5 years .. so far - no problem with the engine. The common factor is that the cars are serviced on time and well taken care of.

I've kept stats since I imported the car and the average mileage is 10.89 km/litre over the last 20 months,that's not including the small error of ~ -3% due to the non-standard tyre profile. This i'd think is not bad for a 2000cc vehicle. I've done ~15km/l when going to coast too.

I guess selling it off later will be a challenge due to the perceptions and experiences out there with the engine - so I intend to milk max value out of it,before selling it and getting one of the TDi vehicles out there... But so far I know what i need to do to keep it running well.

It has sufficient power when needed (142bhp; subaru 2002 TX has 134bhp,the subaru 2002 TS-R has 152bhp,mitsubishi VR-G 2002 142bhp).
I've actually never needed to O/D it when a boost of power is needed. But i'm not the shekhar mehta type.

As for torque I'm still getting my head round the concept. All I know max torque at low RPM is good.

++++

And lastly,why call it mileage when it is in kilometres per litre :)
Djinn
#38 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:15:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 1,565
@Njunge and Tuvok - then how come I have been able to outrun an Toyota Carib (travelling together),plus various other automatic cars (i.e. men under the influence naturally behaving badly) - esp from a standing start - ok I agree most times I have had a few cc on them but sometimes its dead even. Maybe I am burning fuel too rich?

smile

The problem with equality is that we desire that it be with those that have more than us rather that those that have less
McReggae
#39 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:33:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Kanda,O/D will only bring fuel effeciency at speeds above 60km/hr and that is a fact you can take to a bank!!!!!

The chief value of money lies in the fact that one lives in a world in which it is overestimated.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Chaka
#40 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:54:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/16/2007
Posts: 2,114
What is the optimum engine RPM for good fuel efficiency?
mukiha
#41 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:04:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@McReggae;

Not quite so categorical.

OD will actually save fuel at ANY speed. Reason is that the vehicle will shift to a higher gear with OD than without.

@Chaka;

It depends on your car. Listen to the engine while driving: if it sounds 'too loud' then you are wasting fuel,if it 'purrs' then you are driving efficiently. Listen to it carefully.

Having said that,once the vehicle is in motion,the optimum RPM will be the one the delivers the greatest torque...check the engine performance curves in the cars manual to get the exact RPM that delivers greatest torque.

Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Djinn
#42 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:01:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 1,565
@Chaka - RPM will depend on engine and gearbox size. While both a BMW 520 and a Mini 850 will both idle at 800-900 rpm if you tried to reach 60kph in gear one in the mini (i.e. very high rpm like 3500rpm roughly because of high gear ratios) you would spoil the engine. But you could even get t0 60kph in the BMW at a lower RPM (i.e low gear ratios)

The problem with equality is that we desire that it be with those that have more than us rather that those that have less
tuvok
#43 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:02:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/2/2007
Posts: 536

@djinn - If you'd read the rest of my comments,I'd also mentioned that according to manufacturers specs,the MT car would pick up speed slightly faster than a AT. (e.g for 0-60mph: 10.3 for the Toyota Avensis 4Dr Saloon 1.8 VVTi T3-S (03 Edition) vs 11.4 for the Auto version). 15 seconds still seems alot IMHO.

Also were you using an identical car for your 'test'. There's a 1600cc Frontwheel carib which has 161.7bhp (NICE!) and the 4WD carib which has just under 120bhp..



Another useful link on fuel economy: http://www.fuelacademy.com/taylors_tips.html
majimaji
#44 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:16:00 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/4/2007
Posts: 1,162

@ tuvoc,
I'd say your D4 premio performs similar to mine. I've floored it to nairobi - malindi and it did 14km/l and for town running it does over 10km/l.

@simonkabz,what have you heard about this engine? I'd like to be forewarned.

Is this D4 engine similar to that of Rav4?

In man prudence,in woman patience - Jacob Cats
tuvok
#45 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:35:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/2/2007
Posts: 536
@majimaji - the Rav4 D4 is the 1AZ-FSE while the corona premio D4 (up to 2001,early 2002) is the 3S-FSE engine. From what I've read online the 3S-FSE is the first gen D4 while the 1AZ is second gen. I think there's a few other engines after that e.g. 2AZ-FSE. The 1AZ-FSE (and probably 2AZ-FSE) is the same engine for the D4 version of the newer premio models.

@simonkabz - i'd be curious too as to the issues with the Direct Injection. My pal with a Mitsubishi GDI says that it could be due to poor quality fuel (+ maybe bad air&fuel filter). Not sure how true that it is but makes sense keeping in mind how the DI engine works.

Also check out this article from (of all places,Uganda's Sunday Monitor).

http://www.monitor.co.ug...ne_all_about_72614.shtml
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