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Muslim Women not allowed to drive!
AlphDoti
#41 Posted : Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:19:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Mukiri wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
chepkel wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
chepkel wrote:
I think people have a very bad impression of Islam for various reasons. I used to be like this too. However, I visited an Islamic country and came to realize that the religion is actually quite good and strong. Muslims have a very strong bond which is displayed in the way they relate to each other. They behave like sisters and brothers. I find it amazing. You cannot fail to get help, unconditional help in times of need. And in fact I was very suprised with their way of life. Very different from how I imagined it eor heard about it.
Islam is a good religion, principally. The true Islam is good. However, like all other religions, people tend to misinterpret the teachings and implement their own laws and restrictions. And this is what spoils the good name of Islam. Christians would be in big trouble if we implemented even a quarter of what the bible says regarding women and men. Hahahaha.
Nonetheless, Saudi Arabia is in a category of its own kabisa kabisa.

"'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.' This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like it, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

This is what Jesus Christ summarized the WHOLE law. Do you honesty believe that implementing a quarter of that would cause 'big trouble'?

There is nothing wrong with that. And Islam teaches that too. But people tend to misinterpret other stuff to suit their own circumstances. For instance, the Old Testament talks about many things which would not be quite suitable if we implemented them.
Anyway, I do not support the suppression of women and discriminatory laws based on religion. I believe religion is very personal because in the end each individual will face his or her own judgement. Nevertheless, People do a lot of injustice to Islam, like in the case of Saudi Arabia.

@Chepkel you've put things in the most objective manner. Even better than myself!

It is true where you find women oppressed, women exploited, women mistreated, among Muslims,
that is because those Muslims themselves are not representing the principles of the religion.
And in every religion we've got black sheep.

Just like I would not judge Jesus (peace be upon him) by the behaviour of some Christians. Because some do not represent the tachings of Jesus (peace be upon him)

Applause Im glad we finally agree on something. Muslims exploit women in the name of islam and most especially in their holy land. 'Black sheep' as you call them.

You are better off coming to ChristianityPray

@Mukiri, you're inviting me to Christianity?
So that I can also say that 1 + 1 + 1 = 1? The funniest equation! And the biggest mystery on earth!

This is what you say:
You say the father is God, the son is God, and the holy ghost is God, but they are not three Gods but one God.
You also say the father is Almighty, the son is Almighty, and the holy ghost is Almighty, but they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty.
You also say the father is a person, the son is a person and the holy ghost is a person, i.e. person+person+person but is not three person but one person.

I'm asking what language are you speaking?
I'm asking is that English? By God it is gibberish, it is not English. You see you say person+person+person but not three persons but one person.

Let us say your three identical triplets
and we can't make a deifference out between the three of you. They are all identical. If one of you commit murder, can we hang the other?
You say no. I'm asking why not? So you tell me that it is a different person. I say right, what makes him different? You say personality.

When you say in the name of the father, you have a mental picture of old father Christmass, santa claus, millions of time bigger than man, something like a man sitting on his chair, with feet dangling on his foot stool, the loving father in heaven.
What about the son? Are you thinking of a car? No!
You're thinking of a hansome young man, blond hair, blue eyes, ... exellent features.
Something like when Jeffrey Hatcher acted Jesus' role, nice young man, nice beard, not crooked nose.
And for the spirit, you're thinking of somethign that came on the pentecost.

The pictures are vivid but the pictures are there.
You can never remove those pictures in the mind however hard you try. You mind sees three pictures. But when I ask you how many pictures do you see, you say ONE. You're lying.
Tokyo
#42 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2013 3:17:32 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/9/2006
Posts: 1,502
@AlphaDoti. Can a non Muslim visit Mecca ??
work to prosper
AlphDoti
#43 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2013 3:06:19 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Tokyo wrote:
@AlphaDoti. Can a non Muslim visit Mecca??

@Tycho, I know you are asking why non Muslims cannot visit Mecca.

If you analyze even a Kenyan, supposed I'm a Kenyan and I'm in Kenya. Even if I have to go, in certain areas I'm not allowed to go in Kenya.
Those are cantonment areas. You know the cantonment areas, the military areas. The government does not give me the permission to go into that area, though I'm a bonafide citizen of Kenya. Yet the Kenyan government does not allow me to go into cedrtain areas, which are known as cantonment areas. Those are special areas for those people, who are mainly tasked for protecting the country, they are trained in that etc. No normal citizens are allowed.

If someone has permitted a place to be visited, maybe it is not a place of sanctuary. Mecca and Madina are sanctuary, safe haven.
bkismat
#44 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2013 3:25:36 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 2,375
AlphDoti wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
@AlphaDoti. Can a non Muslim visit Mecca??

@Tycho, I know you are asking why non Muslims cannot visit Mecca.

If you analyze even a Kenyan, supposed I'm a Kenyan and I'm in Kenya. Even if I have to go, in certain areas I'm not allowed to go in Kenya.
Those are cantonment areas. You know the cantonment areas, the military areas. The government does not give me the permission to go into that area, though I'm a bonafide citizen of Kenya. Yet the Kenyan government does not allow me to go into cedrtain areas, which are known as cantonment areas. Those are special areas for those people, who are mainly tasked for protecting the country, they are trained in that etc. No normal citizens are allowed.

If someone has permitted a place to be visited, maybe it is not a place of sanctuary. Mecca and Madina are sanctuary, safe haven.

Its not Tycho but Tokyo and what is the answer a yes or a no?
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
AlphDoti
#45 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2013 4:59:08 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
bkismat wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
@AlphaDoti. Can a non Muslim visit Mecca??

@Tycho, I know you are asking why non Muslims cannot visit Mecca.

If you analyze even a Kenyan, supposed I'm a Kenyan and I'm in Kenya. Even if I have to go, in certain areas I'm not allowed to go in Kenya.
Those are cantonment areas. You know the cantonment areas, the military areas. The government does not give me the permission to go into that area, though I'm a bonafide citizen of Kenya. Yet the Kenyan government does not allow me to go into cedrtain areas, which are known as cantonment areas. Those are special areas for those people, who are mainly tasked for protecting the country, they are trained in that etc. No normal citizens are allowed.

If someone has permitted a place to be visited, maybe it is not a place of sanctuary. Mecca and Madina are sanctuary, safe haven.

Its not Tycho but Tokyo and what is the answer a yes or a no?

Thank you for the correctio, I meant @Tokyo...

@bkismat the answer is yes, you need a visa. Read how below...

As I mentioned above, a country is for some people, but Islam is for the whole world, all the human beings. But the cantonment area of Islam, peaceful area, is Mecca and Madina.

No one besides the believer of Islam can go.
That is the cantonment area, you cannot go without being a believer.

You can go to any other Mosque, if you want to go to the mosque of Dubai, you can go. If you want to go to any other mosque, you are most welcome. I will even take you. But these two mosques, as mentioned they are sanctuary area and you require a visa.

Pleae note that Islam is for all human beings, not that we are against other human beings, but whenever you want to enter any country, America, England, Singapore etc you apply for a visa.
And when you apply for visa, there are certain questionaire, certain questions to answer, which they think you have to agree with.

For example, Singapore say "death penalty for those caught with drugs". You cannot say "Oh I don't agree with this, this panishment is very harsh, I don't agree with it". If you don't agree, no entry into Singapore. If you have to enter Singapore, you have to agree and if you're caught with drugs you'll be hanged. No option. If you don't agree with that law, don't enter into that country. If you want to apply for a visa, you have to agree with the law of that country.

Do you want to know the Visa to Mecca and Madina?
bkismat
#46 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2013 5:03:19 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 2,375
AlphDoti wrote:
bkismat wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
@AlphaDoti. Can a non Muslim visit Mecca??

@Tycho, I know you are asking why non Muslims cannot visit Mecca.

If you analyze even a Kenyan, supposed I'm a Kenyan and I'm in Kenya. Even if I have to go, in certain areas I'm not allowed to go in Kenya.
Those are cantonment areas. You know the cantonment areas, the military areas. The government does not give me the permission to go into that area, though I'm a bonafide citizen of Kenya. Yet the Kenyan government does not allow me to go into cedrtain areas, which are known as cantonment areas. Those are special areas for those people, who are mainly tasked for protecting the country, they are trained in that etc. No normal citizens are allowed.

If someone has permitted a place to be visited, maybe it is not a place of sanctuary. Mecca and Madina are sanctuary, safe haven.

Its not Tycho but Tokyo and what is the answer a yes or a no?

Thank you for the correctio, I meant @Tokyo...

@bkismat the answer is yes, you need a visa. Read how below...

As I mentioned above, a country is for some people, but Islam is for the whole world, all the human beings. But the cantonment area of Islam, peaceful area, is Mecca and Madina.

No one besides the believer of Islam can go.
That is the cantonment area, you cannot go without being a believer.

You can go to any other Mosque, if you want to go to the mosque of Dubai, you can go. If you want to go to any other mosque, you are most welcome. I will even take you. But these two mosques, as mentioned they are sanctuary area and you require a visa.

Pleae note that Islam is for all human beings, not that we are against other human beings, but whenever you want to enter any country, America, England, Singapore etc you apply for a visa.
And when you apply for visa, there are certain questionaire, certain questions to answer, which they think you have to agree with.

For example, Singapore say "death penalty for those caught with drugs". You cannot say "Oh I don't agree with this, this panishment is very harsh, I don't agree with it". If you don't agree, no entry into Singapore. If you have to enter Singapore, you have to agree and if you're caught with drugs you'll be hanged. No option. If you don't agree with that law, don't enter into that country. If you want to apply for a visa, you have to agree with the law of that country.

Do you want to know the Visa to Mecca and Madina?

Thanks this second answer is very clear and I agree that when you visit a country you should follow their rules and regulations
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
Kratos
#47 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2013 6:23:50 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 1,694
AlphDoti wrote:
bkismat wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
@AlphaDoti. Can a non Muslim visit Mecca??

@Tycho, I know you are asking why non Muslims cannot visit Mecca.

If you analyze even a Kenyan, supposed I'm a Kenyan and I'm in Kenya. Even if I have to go, in certain areas I'm not allowed to go in Kenya.
Those are cantonment areas. You know the cantonment areas, the military areas. The government does not give me the permission to go into that area, though I'm a bonafide citizen of Kenya. Yet the Kenyan government does not allow me to go into cedrtain areas, which are known as cantonment areas. Those are special areas for those people, who are mainly tasked for protecting the country, they are trained in that etc. No normal citizens are allowed.

If someone has permitted a place to be visited, maybe it is not a place of sanctuary. Mecca and Madina are sanctuary, safe haven.

Its not Tycho but Tokyo and what is the answer a yes or a no?

Thank you for the correctio, I meant @Tokyo...

@bkismat the answer is yes, you need a visa. Read how below...

As I mentioned above, a country is for some people, but Islam is for the whole world, all the human beings. But the cantonment area of Islam, peaceful area, is Mecca and Madina.

No one besides the believer of Islam can go.
That is the cantonment area, you cannot go without being a believer.

You can go to any other Mosque, if you want to go to the mosque of Dubai, you can go. If you want to go to any other mosque, you are most welcome. I will even take you. But these two mosques, as mentioned they are sanctuary area and you require a visa.

Pleae note that Islam is for all human beings, not that we are against other human beings, but whenever you want to enter any country, America, England, Singapore etc you apply for a visa.
And when you apply for visa, there are certain questionaire, certain questions to answer, which they think you have to agree with.

For example, Singapore say "death penalty for those caught with drugs". You cannot say "Oh I don't agree with this, this panishment is very harsh, I don't agree with it". If you don't agree, no entry into Singapore. If you have to enter Singapore, you have to agree and if you're caught with drugs you'll be hanged. No option. If you don't agree with that law, don't enter into that country. If you want to apply for a visa, you have to agree with the law of that country.

Do you want to know the Visa to Mecca and Madina?


I guess you will go on and on and on about this visa, the thing is you haven't answered the question you're just trying to sound clever. Its a Yes or No question.
Also your explanation regarding Singapore is neither here nor there and does not relate at all. Here, no crime has been or will be committed so there is no reason to fear or disagree with any law.
Just go ahead and say that if you're not muslim you cannot enter those two places and spare us the ride to town.....

“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
AlphDoti
#48 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2013 6:35:17 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Kratos wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
bkismat wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
@AlphaDoti. Can a non Muslim visit Mecca??

@Tycho, I know you are asking why non Muslims cannot visit Mecca.

If you analyze even a Kenyan, supposed I'm a Kenyan and I'm in Kenya. Even if I have to go, in certain areas I'm not allowed to go in Kenya.
Those are cantonment areas. You know the cantonment areas, the military areas. The government does not give me the permission to go into that area, though I'm a bonafide citizen of Kenya. Yet the Kenyan government does not allow me to go into cedrtain areas, which are known as cantonment areas. Those are special areas for those people, who are mainly tasked for protecting the country, they are trained in that etc. No normal citizens are allowed.

If someone has permitted a place to be visited, maybe it is not a place of sanctuary. Mecca and Madina are sanctuary, safe haven.

Its not Tycho but Tokyo and what is the answer a yes or a no?

Thank you for the correctio, I meant @Tokyo...

@bkismat the answer is yes, you need a visa. Read how below...

As I mentioned above, a country is for some people, but Islam is for the whole world, all the human beings. But the cantonment area of Islam, peaceful area, is Mecca and Madina.

No one besides the believer of Islam can go.
That is the cantonment area, you cannot go without being a believer.

You can go to any other Mosque, if you want to go to the mosque of Dubai, you can go. If you want to go to any other mosque, you are most welcome. I will even take you. But these two mosques, as mentioned they are sanctuary area and you require a visa.

Pleae note that Islam is for all human beings, not that we are against other human beings, but whenever you want to enter any country, America, England, Singapore etc you apply for a visa.
And when you apply for visa, there are certain questionaire, certain questions to answer, which they think you have to agree with.

For example, Singapore say "death penalty for those caught with drugs". You cannot say "Oh I don't agree with this, this panishment is very harsh, I don't agree with it". If you don't agree, no entry into Singapore. If you have to enter Singapore, you have to agree and if you're caught with drugs you'll be hanged. No option. If you don't agree with that law, don't enter into that country. If you want to apply for a visa, you have to agree with the law of that country.

Do you want to know the Visa to Mecca and Madina?

I guess you will go on and on and on about this visa, the thing is you haven't answered the question you're just trying to sound clever. Its a Yes or No question.
Also your explanation regarding Singapore is neither here nor there and does not relate at all. Here, no crime has been or will be committed so there is no reason to fear or disagree with any law.
Just go ahead and say that if you're not muslim you cannot enter those two places and spare us the ride to town.....

@Kratos, it is true that non-Muslims are not allowed in the holy cities of Makkah and Madina, by law. The above points I gave would serve to make clear the possible reasoning behind such a restriction.

To enter Mecca and Madina, you have to apply for a visa. The visa to go to Mecca and Madina is to say with your tongue "La Ilaha IllAllah Muhammad-Ur-RasulAllah"
Which means "there is no God but Allah and the prophet Muhammad is the messenger of Allah"

If you don't get the visa, you don't go there.

If you recite those words and you believe, no one will stop you!

In other words, you must believe there is One God.
And also believe that the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the messenger of God.
nakujua
#49 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2013 9:48:32 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
Kratos wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
bkismat wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
@AlphaDoti. Can a non Muslim visit Mecca??

@Tycho, I know you are asking why non Muslims cannot visit Mecca.

If you analyze even a Kenyan, supposed I'm a Kenyan and I'm in Kenya. Even if I have to go, in certain areas I'm not allowed to go in Kenya.
Those are cantonment areas. You know the cantonment areas, the military areas. The government does not give me the permission to go into that area, though I'm a bonafide citizen of Kenya. Yet the Kenyan government does not allow me to go into cedrtain areas, which are known as cantonment areas. Those are special areas for those people, who are mainly tasked for protecting the country, they are trained in that etc. No normal citizens are allowed.

If someone has permitted a place to be visited, maybe it is not a place of sanctuary. Mecca and Madina are sanctuary, safe haven.

Its not Tycho but Tokyo and what is the answer a yes or a no?

Thank you for the correctio, I meant @Tokyo...

@bkismat the answer is yes, you need a visa. Read how below...

As I mentioned above, a country is for some people, but Islam is for the whole world, all the human beings. But the cantonment area of Islam, peaceful area, is Mecca and Madina.

No one besides the believer of Islam can go.
That is the cantonment area, you cannot go without being a believer.

You can go to any other Mosque, if you want to go to the mosque of Dubai, you can go. If you want to go to any other mosque, you are most welcome. I will even take you. But these two mosques, as mentioned they are sanctuary area and you require a visa.

Pleae note that Islam is for all human beings, not that we are against other human beings, but whenever you want to enter any country, America, England, Singapore etc you apply for a visa.
And when you apply for visa, there are certain questionaire, certain questions to answer, which they think you have to agree with.

For example, Singapore say "death penalty for those caught with drugs". You cannot say "Oh I don't agree with this, this panishment is very harsh, I don't agree with it". If you don't agree, no entry into Singapore. If you have to enter Singapore, you have to agree and if you're caught with drugs you'll be hanged. No option. If you don't agree with that law, don't enter into that country. If you want to apply for a visa, you have to agree with the law of that country.

Do you want to know the Visa to Mecca and Madina?


I guess you will go on and on and on about this visa, the thing is you haven't answered the question you're just trying to sound clever. Its a Yes or No question.
Also your explanation regarding Singapore is neither here nor there and does not relate at all. Here, no crime has been or will be committed so there is no reason to fear or disagree with any law.
Just go ahead and say that if you're not muslim you cannot enter those two places and spare us the ride to town.....

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly , hiyo defence imetolewa mbali - agree the question just needed a straight answer - this explanation smells like a cover up to something.
Mukiri
#50 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2013 10:47:48 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
AlphDoti wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
chepkel wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
chepkel wrote:
I think people have a very bad impression of Islam for various reasons. I used to be like this too. However, I visited an Islamic country and came to realize that the religion is actually quite good and strong. Muslims have a very strong bond which is displayed in the way they relate to each other. They behave like sisters and brothers. I find it amazing. You cannot fail to get help, unconditional help in times of need. And in fact I was very suprised with their way of life. Very different from how I imagined it eor heard about it.
Islam is a good religion, principally. The true Islam is good. However, like all other religions, people tend to misinterpret the teachings and implement their own laws and restrictions. And this is what spoils the good name of Islam. Christians would be in big trouble if we implemented even a quarter of what the bible says regarding women and men. Hahahaha.
Nonetheless, Saudi Arabia is in a category of its own kabisa kabisa.

"'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.' This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like it, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

This is what Jesus Christ summarized the WHOLE law. Do you honesty believe that implementing a quarter of that would cause 'big trouble'?

There is nothing wrong with that. And Islam teaches that too. But people tend to misinterpret other stuff to suit their own circumstances. For instance, the Old Testament talks about many things which would not be quite suitable if we implemented them.
Anyway, I do not support the suppression of women and discriminatory laws based on religion. I believe religion is very personal because in the end each individual will face his or her own judgement. Nevertheless, People do a lot of injustice to Islam, like in the case of Saudi Arabia.

@Chepkel you've put things in the most objective manner. Even better than myself!

It is true where you find women oppressed, women exploited, women mistreated, among Muslims,
that is because those Muslims themselves are not representing the principles of the religion.
And in every religion we've got black sheep.

Just like I would not judge Jesus (peace be upon him) by the behaviour of some Christians. Because some do not represent the tachings of Jesus (peace be upon him)

Applause Im glad we finally agree on something. Muslims exploit women in the name of islam and most especially in their holy land. 'Black sheep' as you call them.

You are better off coming to ChristianityPray

@Mukiri, you're inviting me to Christianity?
So that I can also say that 1 + 1 + 1 = 1? The funniest equation! And the biggest mystery on earth!

This is what you say:
You say the father is God, the son is God, and the holy ghost is God, but they are not three Gods but one God.
You also say the father is Almighty, the son is Almighty, and the holy ghost is Almighty, but they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty.
You also say the father is a person, the son is a person and the holy ghost is a person, i.e. person+person+person but is not three person but one person.

I'm asking what language are you speaking?
I'm asking is that English? By God it is gibberish, it is not English. You see you say person+person+person but not three persons but one person.

Let us say your three identical triplets
and we can't make a deifference out between the three of you. They are all identical. If one of you commit murder, can we hang the other?
You say no. I'm asking why not? So you tell me that it is a different person. I say right, what makes him different? You say personality.

When you say in the name of the father, you have a mental picture of old father Christmass, santa claus, millions of time bigger than man, something like a man sitting on his chair, with feet dangling on his foot stool, the loving father in heaven.
What about the son? Are you thinking of a car? No!
You're thinking of a hansome young man, blond hair, blue eyes, ... exellent features.
Something like when Jeffrey Hatcher acted Jesus' role, nice young man, nice beard, not crooked nose.
And for the spirit, you're thinking of somethign that came on the pentecost.

The pictures are vivid but the pictures are there.
You can never remove those pictures in the mind however hard you try. You mind sees three pictures. But when I ask you how many pictures do you see, you say ONE. You're lying.

'My friend' I've always wondered about Islam... and you are not making it even better. What do they teach you in those mosques and madrases? Is it to love islam or question/hate Christianity?

For you know so much, purported negativities, of Christianity. Si you just focus on the good that your religion offers? Or are they scared that its all an illusion, and the true goodies are in Christ?

Let me add onto your post above so that you have even more... "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" #kichwayakoitachemka

Proverbs 19:21
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