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Land Speculation Remastered
a4architect.com
#41 Posted : Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:30:10 AM
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Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
the concept of money where its made scarce should be trully enforced. Accumulating money should be left to the entrepreneurs like @kaifastus has explained. Manufacturers, farmers etc should be the ones reaping benefits of their hard work.
As @ash ock explained, corrupt govt officials are awash with billions which they never put value so as to gain.

In an economy where the lazy guys who have gotten money easily call the shots, and the hard working industrialists and farmers getting nothing, this could be the reason for the massive land appreciation we are witnessing.

Now that @ukenyatta has set up a website for whistle blowing, maybe this will lessen the corruption. Ultimately, we need to borrow from south africa where capital gains on land are taxed extremely high such that the gains go back to support infrastructure or borrow form usa by taxing land value. This way it wont matter who has the money, whether its pirate, corrupt money etc, these measures balance situations out.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
nakujua
#42 Posted : Thursday, October 17, 2013 1:08:27 PM
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Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
since the land tax issue seems to rub some powerful groups the wrong way, thus making it very hard to pass or enforce - the government or local authorities should just focus on building more roads especially to open up more interior areas since land value in nairobi is directly proportional to roads - thats why most land agents always use a new proposed bypass as a major selling point.
a4architect.com
#43 Posted : Thursday, October 17, 2013 5:17:44 PM
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@nakujua..the budget is usually overstretched for health, security, education etc to build more roads. This money can only be found if govt comes up with specific land tax eg capital gains tax in south africa and land value tax in usa where proceeds from this tax exclusively goes to roads.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
urstill1
#44 Posted : Thursday, October 17, 2013 5:35:36 PM
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Joined: 9/6/2013
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Location: In a house
a4architect.com wrote:
@nakujua..the budget is usually overstretched for health, security, education etc to build more roads. This money can only be found if govt comes up with specific land tax eg capital gains tax in south africa and land value tax in usa where proceeds from this tax exclusively goes to roads.


How many times do people have to pay for roads? I guess all these are factored into the fuel levy!! So already the money exists.
a4architect.com
#45 Posted : Thursday, October 17, 2013 5:56:38 PM
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Location: nairobi
@urstill1..its quite a complicated concept of land taxation. You will hve to google n get the basics of it and how it works in other countries to understand. The current tax rates cant sustain new roads development as @najujua suggests coz this needs huge capital outlay. This capital outlay is actually here with us i.e if you buy land for 10m and sell for 20m, you have capital gains of 10m which you will pocket for your use within the country. This 10m should be heavily taxed so that say 5m of this goes into expanding the roads network. Currently, the 10m capital gains is never taxed after easy evasion except for 3% stamp duty.
In South Africa, most of the 10m capital gain will have to be shared with Govt who will input more infrastructure.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
Msa Liti
#46 Posted : Thursday, October 17, 2013 7:12:59 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/6/2009
Posts: 98
Gordon Gekko wrote:
What role did pirate money play in the upswing of land/property prices? If the Somali situation is normalized, what will happen? What has happened since KDF went in and cut off supply of dollars into our economy? Is it true to say that a big proportion of price rise can be attributed to Somalia?


A big one. In Eastleigh, sorry for being stereotypical, a 40 by 80 plot can fetch 10m.
How does somebody recoup their investment?? Surely.
The knock off effect has spiralled on to other areas.
mawinder
#47 Posted : Thursday, October 17, 2013 7:19:24 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
Msa Liti wrote:
Gordon Gekko wrote:
What role did pirate money play in the upswing of land/property prices? If the Somali situation is normalized, what will happen? What has happened since KDF went in and cut off supply of dollars into our economy? Is it true to say that a big proportion of price rise can be attributed to Somalia?


A big one. In Eastleigh, sorry for being stereotypical, a 40 by 80 plot can fetch 10m.
How does somebody recoup their investment?? Surely.
The knock off effect has spiralled on to other areas.

Where in Eastleigh?Such a plot goes for a minimum of 25m and the buyers are many.The money is not from pirates.When was the last time you heard of Somali pirates and could you provide statistics of ransom money,how it is shared and the percentage that reaches Kenya?I tend to think these are hardworkers coupled with diaspora inflows.
urstill1
#48 Posted : Thursday, October 17, 2013 9:00:53 PM
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Joined: 9/6/2013
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Location: In a house
a4architect.com wrote:
@urstill1..its quite a complicated concept of land taxation. You will hve to google n get the basics of it and how it works in other countries to understand. The current tax rates cant sustain new roads development as @najujua suggests coz this needs huge capital outlay. This capital outlay is actually here with us i.e if you buy land for 10m and sell for 20m, you have capital gains of 10m which you will pocket for your use within the country. This 10m should be heavily taxed so that say 5m of this goes into expanding the roads network. Currently, the 10m capital gains is never taxed after easy evasion except for 3% stamp duty.
In South Africa, most of the 10m capital gain will have to be shared with Govt who will input more infrastructure.


My question is on the fuel levy. Secondly, I don't think taxation on capital gains(land in this case) will result in more revenue than the fuel levy. Speculators will stop speculating and the current frenzy will stop.
urstill1
#49 Posted : Thursday, October 17, 2013 9:06:18 PM
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Joined: 9/6/2013
Posts: 1,446
Location: In a house
mawinder wrote:
Msa Liti wrote:
Gordon Gekko wrote:
What role did pirate money play in the upswing of land/property prices? If the Somali situation is normalized, what will happen? What has happened since KDF went in and cut off supply of dollars into our economy? Is it true to say that a big proportion of price rise can be attributed to Somalia?


A big one. In Eastleigh, sorry for being stereotypical, a 40 by 80 plot can fetch 10m.
How does somebody recoup their investment?? Surely.
The knock off effect has spiralled on to other areas.

Where in Eastleigh?Such a plot goes for a minimum of 25m and the buyers are many.The money is not from pirates.When was the last time you heard of Somali pirates and could you provide statistics of ransom money,how it is shared and the percentage that reaches Kenya?I tend to think these are hardworkers coupled with diaspora inflows.


Pirate money is what is doing business in most of Eastleigh and parts of CBD. In as much as we no longer hear of piracy doesn't mean there is no pirate money. It's already part of the circulating money in the economy. Wait and see how prices will come down once the "pirates" start registering losses in their businesses.
Ash Ock
#50 Posted : Thursday, October 17, 2013 9:31:55 PM
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Joined: 8/27/2010
Posts: 495
Location: Nairobi
The Somali piracy menace has significantly decreased over the years, with only 10 incidents reported so far this year. Their money is not what is currently driving the fake real estate house boom although it may have contributed at the beginning. Corruption proceeds have so distorted the market it’s led to many people believing there is no bubble since most purchases are financed in cash (CBK data). Very few realize that corruption proceeds are, in a sense, extremely cheap loans (0% interest and no need to pay back!) being ploughed into real estate. Since 9/11, it’s quite obvious why and partially explains how the real estate boom started in 2002 i.e. Murungaru’s woes hiding money and later Okemo’s extradition case.

The knock-on effects: we now have a situation where the ordinary mwananchi is having difficulty finding a place to call home, even far from Nairobi, where the pirate money never entered but corruption money has: Property boom turns tide against Kiambu., something being replicated across the country where the real estate boom has gotten a foothold.

Now add the poverty level which according to the WB has remained constant for the last few years: Kenya fails poverty reduction test, putting paid to arguments that Kenyans are getting richer.

As the title of this thread states, one of the very few avenues left to make a fortune is to get into real estate and speculate, further escalating the problem i.e. Express Kenya to build houses 15-acre land. Quote from the article: ”Express Kenya joins a growing list of NSE listed companies that are turning to the vibrant real estate sector to boost their growth.” These companies are sidelining their main business, competing against corruption proceeds (extremely hot money), all leading to a vicious bubble that can and must end with misery, a situation which is aptly summed up by one of Warren Buffet’s most famous quotes : “Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful”.
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