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VAT Bill 2013 - Solutions ONLY
ecstacy
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 04, 2013 6:24:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
So instead of joining the online Kenyan ranting regarding the VAT 2013 Bill, maybe we share and propose some solutions to anyone who cares to listen? I'm no economist, but how about the following:

1. Kenya's annual recurrent expenditure has hit the one trillion shilling mark up by Ksh.340B - we have to SLASH it from the top down (this was before MPs, teachers, Governors, Senators demands get into the pic). I am sorry, some Kenyans rich and poorer will need to go home or take salary freezes if not time cuts for lower pay or work twice as hard for the same pay.

2. Increase the tax base. If you a landlord and you not paying tax, pls don't go whinin about VAT on milk. If you are an employer who has been deducting employee dues and not remitting them to KRA, STFU. If you are a consultant not remitting witholding tax, nyamaza etc

3. The value of the balance between imports and exports has to improve as we importing twice the value of what we are exporting (Ksh 1.3T v 518B). It means in the immediate term resuscitating local industry and providing investors with incentives. Spending more (requiring more tax) in the immediate term to achieve mid-long term objectives.

4. Strengthen accountability across all arms of government. Legislate economic crimes if we have to. Corruption has to be seen to be punished.

5. Phase out/stagger Jubilee new government spending programmes in the social sector.. Scheduled to go up to 41.1% i.e. by Ksh. 421B

6. Go after firms engaging in transfer pricing. This may mean job cuts for some, firms relocating but in the longer term, the economy retains taxes generated from poisoning of it's environment and exploitation of its workers. The horticulture flower farms lead the pack in tax evasion.

7. Reduce defence spending. Quick gain perhaps, are there any strategic interests left in remaining in Somalia now?

All these measures are hardest on the bottom of the pyramid so if we complain about milk then let us be ready to swallow the bitter pill of solutions.

What are yours?
Chaka
#2 Posted : Wednesday, September 04, 2013 6:47:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/16/2007
Posts: 2,114
@ecstacy,
Are ways to avoid this tax welcome in this thread? e.g to keep money under the mattress...
ecstacy
#3 Posted : Wednesday, September 04, 2013 6:51:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
Chaka wrote:
@ecstacy,
Are ways to avoid this tax welcome in this thread? e.g to keep money under the mattress...


smile Sure, no stifling creativity. For retail consumers, that suggestion in light of the new bank charges v inflation could be an option to evaluate?
King G
#4 Posted : Wednesday, September 04, 2013 6:55:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2012
Posts: 3,855
Location: Othumo
1. Build in structures and systems to drastically reduce leakages in Gava expenditures which stands at Kshs. 300 billion annually

2. Bring in systems to capture more people in the informal sector into paying taxes

3. Increase the investment in infrastructure by even simple margin of 3/5% of overall budget. This will have a multiplier effect in the economy.

4. Stop WSR from globe trotting.
Thieves
ecstacy
#5 Posted : Wednesday, September 04, 2013 9:34:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
ecstacy wrote:
So instead of joining the online Kenyan ranting regarding the VAT 2013 Bill, maybe we share and propose some solutions to anyone who cares to listen? I'm no economist, but how about the following:

1. Kenya's annual recurrent expenditure has hit the one trillion shilling mark up by Ksh.340B - we have to SLASH it from the top down (this was before MPs, teachers, Governors, Senators demands get into the pic). I am sorry, some Kenyans rich and poorer will need to go home or take salary freezes if not time cuts for lower pay or work twice as hard for the same pay.

2. Increase the tax base. If you a landlord and you not paying tax, pls don't go whinin about VAT on milk. If you are an employer who has been deducting employee dues and not remitting them to KRA, STFU. If you are a consultant not remitting witholding tax, nyamaza etc

3. The value of the balance between imports and exports has to improve as we importing twice the value of what we are exporting (Ksh 1.3T v 518B). It means in the immediate term resuscitating local industry and providing investors with incentives. Spending more (requiring more tax) in the immediate term to achieve mid-long term objectives.

4. Strengthen accountability across all arms of government. Legislate economic crimes if we have to. Corruption has to be seen to be punished.

5. Phase out/stagger Jubilee new government spending programmes in the social sector.. Scheduled to go up to 41.1% i.e. by Ksh. 421B

6. Go after firms engaging in transfer pricing. This may mean job cuts for some, firms relocating but in the longer term, the economy retains taxes generated from poisoning of it's environment and exploitation of its workers. The horticulture flower farms lead the pack in tax evasion.

7. Reduce defence spending. Quick gain perhaps, are there any strategic interests left in remaining in Somalia now?

All these measures are hardest on the bottom of the pyramid so if we complain about milk then let us be ready to swallow the bitter pill of solutions.

What are yours?


9. Review Tax Breaks for foreign firms

In relation to tax collection by way of radical suggestion, it is time the GoK considered publish a costing and justification for each incentive offered, followed by monitoring of conditions and a tally of costs and benefits, so the public can see the impact of tax incentives.

An ActionAid report released this July 2013 showed that Kenya gave up $123 million (Sh10.5 billion) under the generalised corporate tax incentives based on the 2008/2009 financial results. This equals 21 per cent of the corporate tax collected in the same year...

OK, do we know how much we did actually get in return???

Foreign firms are supposed to pay 37.5 per cent of their profits as tax, with locals paying 30 per cent. A further $120 million (Sh10.2 billion) was lost through incentives to exporters and $68 million (5.8 billion) through Special economic zones.

Sarah Muyonga, a Tax consultant said this is despite the fact that such incentives have not translated into any surge in Foreign Direct Investment as intended.

"Uganda gives less incentives than Kenya, but attracts more FDI. Investors are not entirely enticed by these tax incentives," said Muyonga. The ActionAid report said the use of tax incentives by the government has dramatically increased from about 4 per cent of the firms to over 40 per cent between 1980 and the present.

"It is worrying wooing investors with unclear incentives such as land deals, tax breaks and other unclear tax deals to set up business in their countries. These create loopholes for corruption and give unfair competition to the domestic investors," Muyonga said.

It is time the GoK considered publish a costing and justification for each incentive offered!!

Ref 1 http://www.actionaid.org...x-free_deals_21_aug.pdf

Ref 2 -http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-127456/kenya-losing-sh100bn-tax-foreign-firms
sparkly
#6 Posted : Wednesday, September 04, 2013 9:37:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Chaka wrote:
@ecstacy,
Are ways to avoid this tax welcome in this thread? e.g to keep money under the mattress...


1. Increase your income. This reduces the percentage of tax borne eg 2 families spending 10k on a food basket pay VAT of 1.6k. If one family has an income of 20k, tax is 8% of income. If the other earns 200k, the tax is 0.8%.

2. Avoid the indirect tax by avoiding consumption or reducing consumption of the taxed item. instead of buying 10 packets of milk per week, buy 8.
Life is short. Live passionately.
ecstacy
#7 Posted : Wednesday, September 04, 2013 9:51:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
Applause
King G wrote:
1. Build in structures and systems to drastically reduce leakages in Gava expenditures which stands at Kshs. 300 billion annually

I agree under 1. Slash Kenya's annual recurrent expenditure

2. Bring in systems to capture more people in the informal sector into paying taxes

I agree under 2. Increase the tax base.

3. Increase the investment in infrastructure by even simple margin of 3/5% of overall budget. This will have a multiplier effect in the economy.

I agree under 1. Slash Kenya's annual recurrent expenditure, this means more KES for development expenditure whose use will be guided by central and devolved govt priorities

4. Stop WSR from globe trotting.

I agree under 4. Strengthen accountability across all arms of government

Applause



ecstacy
#8 Posted : Wednesday, September 04, 2013 9:55:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
sparkly wrote:
Chaka wrote:
@ecstacy,
Are ways to avoid this tax welcome in this thread? e.g to keep money under the mattress...


1. Increase your income. This reduces the percentage of tax borne eg 2 families spending 10k on a food basket pay VAT of 1.6k. If one family has an income of 20k, tax is 8% of income. If the other earns 200k, the tax is 0.8%.

2. Avoid the indirect tax by avoiding consumption or reducing consumption of the taxed item. instead of buying 10 packets of milk per week, buy 8.


Applause Applause
Wakanyugi
#9 Posted : Wednesday, September 04, 2013 10:45:32 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
ecstacy wrote:




All these measures are hardest on the bottom of the pyramid so if we complain about milk then let us be ready to swallow the bitter pill of solutions.

What are yours?


Grow your own vegetables - sukuma, tomatoes, potatoes, onions etc

Keep a few chicken mainly for the eggs

Keep a cow if you can for the milk

Buy your food at Marikiti market not Nakumat and your meat from Dagoretti market (if you live in Nairobi)

Better yet, become a vegetarian.

Repair those shoes, dress, trousers that you were going to discard

Walk to work if you can.

Take a Boda boda instead of a taxi.

Buy wine, whiskey, vodka etc and drink at home

Watch movies on TV

Buy candles and have 'romantic dinners'

Get an Airtel sim card for making calls.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Lolest!
#10 Posted : Thursday, September 05, 2013 1:32:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Wakanyugi wrote:
ecstacy wrote:




All these measures are hardest on the bottom of the pyramid so if we complain about milk then let us be ready to swallow the bitter pill of solutions.

What are yours?


Grow your own vegetables - sukuma, tomatoes, potatoes, onions etc

Keep a few chicken mainly for the eggs

Keep a cow if you can for the milk

Buy your food at Marikiti market not Nakumat and your meat from Dagoretti market (if you live in Nairobi)

Better yet, become a vegetarian.

Repair those shoes, dress, trousers that you were going to discard

Walk to work if you can.

Take a Boda boda instead of a taxi.

Buy wine, whiskey, vodka etc and drink at home

Watch movies on TV

Buy candles and have 'romantic dinners'

Get an Airtel sim card for making calls.

Aiiih, maisha si mbaya hivyo...your response sounds like it shoould be for the other thread of how to survive in hard times!smile
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#11 Posted : Thursday, September 05, 2013 1:43:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
I like your thoughts @ecstacyApplause
ecstacy wrote:

So instead of joining the online Kenyan ranting regarding the VAT 2013 Bill, maybe we share and propose some solutions to anyone who cares to listen? I'm no economist, but how about the following:

2. Increase the tax base. If you a landlord and you not paying tax, pls don't go whinin about VAT on milk. If you are an employer who has been deducting employee dues and not remitting them to KRA, STFU. If you are a consultant not remitting witholding tax, nyamaza etc
people think landlords only when it comes to evasion. But most people do not pay tax. Gikomba people with their big time money, farmers making hundreds of thousands, all those people in the informal sector too pay nil tax even when they make millions. I agree, wanyamaze, they're the reason VAT has to go up. The formally employed carry the country's budget burden through PAYE.
3. The value of the balance between imports and exports has to improve as we importing twice the value of what we are exporting (Ksh 1.3T v 518B). It means in the immediate term resuscitating local industry and providing investors with incentives. Spending more (requiring more tax) in the immediate term to achieve mid-long term objectives.
Cost of production will go up coz of Railway levy and 16% VAT on electricity. Or am I missing something here? how will govt resuscitate local industry if not by lower costs of production?
7. Reduce defence spending. Quick gain perhaps, are there any strategic interests left in remaining in Somalia now?
Aren't soldiers in Somalia now under AU/UN?

Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
jerry
#12 Posted : Thursday, September 05, 2013 2:11:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/29/2006
Posts: 2,570
And there is now a 5cts/KWHr water on KP bills.
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it's conformity.
jerry
#13 Posted : Thursday, September 05, 2013 2:16:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/29/2006
Posts: 2,570
jerry wrote:
And there is now a 5cts/KWHr water on KP bills.

This is in addition to VAT raise from 12% to 16%.
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it's conformity.
Wakanyugi
#14 Posted : Thursday, September 05, 2013 3:37:52 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
Lolest! wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
ecstacy wrote:




All these measures are hardest on the bottom of the pyramid so if we complain about milk then let us be ready to swallow the bitter pill of solutions.

What are yours?


Grow your own vegetables - sukuma, tomatoes, potatoes, onions etc

Keep a few chicken mainly for the eggs

Keep a cow if you can for the milk

Buy your food at Marikiti market not Nakumat and your meat from Dagoretti market (if you live in Nairobi)

Better yet, become a vegetarian.

Repair those shoes, dress, trousers that you were going to discard

Walk to work if you can.

Take a Boda boda instead of a taxi.

Buy wine, whiskey, vodka etc and drink at home

Watch movies on TV

Buy candles and have 'romantic dinners'

Get an Airtel sim card for making calls.

Aiiih, maisha si mbaya hivyo...your response sounds like it shoould be for the other thread of how to survive in hard times!smile


Si kwa umbaya. Nilikuwa na changia tu mjadala wa Ecstacy. smile
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
dunkang
#15 Posted : Thursday, September 05, 2013 4:20:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
jerry wrote:
And there is now a 5cts/KWHr water on KP bills.

This is kind of neglegible for domestic users since for 500KWH users thats about 25/= added to your 6000/=+ bill. For my house that NEVER exceed 200KWHr monthly, thats 10/- monthly.

Hiyo hesabu yangu iko sawa kweli?
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

mkeiyd
#16 Posted : Thursday, September 05, 2013 5:02:02 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 1,182
[quote=Lolest!]I like your thoughts @ecstacyApplause
[quote=ecstacy]So instead of joining the online Kenyan ranting regarding the VAT 2013 Bill, maybe we share and propose some solutions to anyone who cares to listen? I'm no economist, but how about the following:

2. Increase the tax base. If you a landlord and you not paying tax, pls don't go whinin about VAT on milk. If you are an employer who has been deducting employee dues and not remitting them to KRA, STFU. If you are a consultant not remitting witholding tax, nyamaza etc
people think landlords only when it comes to evasion. But most people do not pay tax. Gikomba people with their big time money, farmers making hundreds of thousands, all those people in the informal sector too pay nil tax even when they make millions. I agree, wanyamaze, they're the reason VAT has to go up. The formally employed carry the country's budget burden through PAYE.

3. The value of the balance between imports and exports has to improve as we importing twice the value of what we are exporting (Ksh 1.3T v 518B). It means in the immediate term resuscitating local industry and providing investors with incentives. Spending more (requiring more tax) in the immediate term to achieve mid-long term objectives.
Cost of production will go up coz of Railway levy and 16% VAT on electricity. Or am I missing something here? how will govt resuscitate local industry if not by lower costs of production?4. Strengthen accountability across all arms of government. Legislate economic crimes if we have to. Corruption has to be seen to be punished.


7. Reduce defence spending. Quick gain perhaps, are there any strategic interests left in remaining in Somalia now?
Aren't soldiers in Somalia now under AU/UN?
Quote:



Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
That group of people in blue carry the heaviest of burdens. All sorts of BAD names.
Mara watu hawajasoma, watu wa biashara ndogo ndogo, watu wakuuza nguo kuu kuu,peasant farmers,watu hawatumiagi deodorant.Mpaka @Drunkard can't bank in peace. etc etc.

All that while, those of you in formal employment get to bask in all sorts of praises [warranted n otherwise]. Big company names, big titles, expensive lunches, expensive suits n perfumes etc etc.

@loles t, Let those in formal employment carry all the good names, including that of government funding.
Cut us some slack,sisi ni watu wa Mungu.
The gov't doesn't care about us, were are non-existent.

Sisi ni batoto ba Mungu.
MuchNo
#17 Posted : Thursday, September 05, 2013 6:09:35 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/3/2008
Posts: 48
This is not my idea, but something I heard while discussing the matter earlier today. I thought it had merit, so when I saw this thread I thought I'd mention it.

Why not impose a one-time mandatory tax on properties. Yani, everyone who is a registered owner of a property has a 0.5% one-time tax imposed on their property. The value used should be the same as that used to determine rates. Hence a property valued at KES 10 million will result in a KES 50,000.00 tax on the property owner.

This could net hundreds of billions if not over a trillion Kenya Shillings for The Treasury, and would obviate the need to increase VAT -- in fact, it would result in a welcome reverse of that order. It would provide the government with funding for a few years (assuming not all budget expenditure must be met from this source), and would solve so many other issues.

Like I said, not my idea but I thought it was a good one. Your thoughts?
Chaka
#18 Posted : Thursday, September 05, 2013 6:18:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/16/2007
Posts: 2,114
@MuchNo,
What if the property owner is retired and staying in his/her property with pension as the only source of income?
itz
#19 Posted : Friday, September 06, 2013 4:24:59 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2009
Posts: 348
am surprised no one has mentioned reducing size of Govt.The new bloated govt is part of the reason for your VAT woes.it is also a fallacy to assume farmers and gikomba people don't pay some form of taxes.For farmers please sit down and calculate what goes into the cost of production up to sales n marketing and there in you might find your answer.For Gikomba people that business is on its death bed because of heavy taxation of mtumba at port of entry.
Kenya is over taxed and the solution among many others that have been mentioned here is to reduce size of govt and lower tax rate plus widen the base.
murchr
#20 Posted : Friday, September 06, 2013 5:29:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
itz wrote:
am surprised no one has mentioned reducing size of Govt.The new bloated govt is part of the reason for your VAT woes.it is also a fallacy to assume farmers and gikomba people don't pay some form of taxes.For farmers please sit down and calculate what goes into the cost of production up to sales n marketing and there in you might find your answer.For Gikomba people that business is on its death bed because of heavy taxation of mtumba at port of entry.
Kenya is over taxed and the solution among many others that have been mentioned here is to reduce size of govt and lower tax rate plus widen the base.


Who will risk being called an enemy to devilution? Anyway, i understand ile chai ya saa nne na kumi has been struck off from the exchequer. I wonder how much they were spending on that.

I would wish to see a drastic drop of seminars being held in hotels here and there, these people should utilize technology and the conference rooms in offices.

Develop a mechanism to collect fines from traffic offenders and this includes pedestrian crossing in undesignated areas.

Give incentives/loans to existing companies to hire the otherwise idle Kenyans who are potential taxpayers
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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