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Average cost of standard railway gauge from Mombasa to Malaba!
Rank: Member Joined: 7/6/2010 Posts: 242
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josimar wrote: The biggest beneficiary in this whole arrangement will be China, we shall pay back the loan + interest, if the locomotives are from China be rest assuared that for the next 10Years we shall be purchasing spares from them. All these money will be going to their economy. Quote:
@josimar, And the alternative would be? Care to share?
Do we tax ourselves for several years to raise the amounts needed? How much would we raise and how much would that hurt the economy?
If loans are that bad,why do we take loans from banks?
Is it that individual development loans are good but gov't development loans are bad?
Bottom line is, if the loan is utilized well, the multiplier effect of an efficient transport system out weighs the financing costs.
We don't make spare parts of anything,heck we even import toothpicks. Where else would we be getting spare parts from if not importing.
What we should be championing is transparency and accountability.
My point is it is quite expensive to single source.
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/13/2006 Posts: 70
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GGK wrote:Impunity wrote:GGK wrote:
As for mode of operation, the current is locomotive (where the engines pulls all the load from the front). What is proposed is different..... diesel-electric multiple unit (DEMU) where a diesel engine drives an electrical generator or an alternator which produces electrical energy. The generated current is then fed to electric traction motors on the wheels or bogies. this produces trains that gain speed faster and stops fasters
Where is this diesel engine located? Is it located at the front of the whole train or located within selected wagons/coaches? I guess the engines are distributed DMU engines are smaller and several are used on a train, depending on the configuration. The diesel engine is often mounted under the car floor and on its side because of the restricted space available. Vibration being transmitted into the passenger saloon has always been a problem but some of the newer designs are very good in this respect. Diesel-electric locomotives come in three varieties, according to the period in which they were designed. These three are: DC - DC (DC generator supplying DC traction motors); AC - DC (AC alternator output rectified to supply DC motors) and AC - DC - AC (AC alternator output rectified to DC and then inverted to 3-phase AC for the traction motors). The DC - DC type has a generator supplying the DC traction motors through a resistance control system, the AC - DC type has an alternator producing AC current which is rectified to DC and then supplied to the DC traction motors and, finally, the most modern has the AC alternator output being rectified to DC and then converted to AC (3-phase) so that it can power the 3-phase AC traction motors. Although this last system might seem the most complex, the gains from using AC motors far outweigh the apparent complexity of the system. In reality, most of the equipment uses solid state power electronics with microprocessor-based controls. Kama kuoga ni usafi taulo lachafukani?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 1,182
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josimar wrote:
My point is it is quite expensive to single source.
At what rate is the loan being advanced at? Are trains like cars whereby you can just buy spare parts from the many dealers all over the world? When KQ buys Boeing, do they buy spares from just anywhere?
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/21/2006 Posts: 608 Location: Ruiru
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mkeiyd wrote:josimar wrote:
My point is it is quite expensive to single source.
At what rate is the loan being advanced at? Are trains like cars whereby you can just buy spare parts from the many dealers all over the world? When KQ buys Boeing, do they buy spares from just anywhere? No you can not fix Airbus parts on Boeing. Once you buy from one manufacturer, you are "married" to that one manufacturer "..I am because we are. "― Ubuntu, Umtu,
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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murchr wrote:Impunity wrote:josimar wrote:The locomotives will also be supplied from China, so the project comes with a full package. I would rather we do German locos than Chinese; RELIABILITY and motive POWER! Ooh come-on the chinese trains as as good as germans why should we pay more?? Longevity!!!!  Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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murchr wrote:mawinder wrote:murchr wrote:Impunity wrote:josimar wrote:The locomotives will also be supplied from China, so the project comes with a full package. I would rather we do German locos than Chinese; RELIABILITY and motive POWER! Ooh come-on the chinese trains as as good as germans why should we pay more?? Uhuru should have got Marklin,Fleischmann,Lima trains not the likes of Foton or whatever from China. The person to set up a local plant here should carry the day, imagine if a train is to stop then we're told that an engineer should come from germany How long will it take an engineer to travel from China to Kenya?  Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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Allank wrote:GGK wrote:Impunity wrote:GGK wrote:
As for mode of operation, the current is locomotive (where the engines pulls all the load from the front). What is proposed is different..... diesel-electric multiple unit (DEMU) where a diesel engine drives an electrical generator or an alternator which produces electrical energy. The generated current is then fed to electric traction motors on the wheels or bogies. this produces trains that gain speed faster and stops fasters
Where is this diesel engine located? Is it located at the front of the whole train or located within selected wagons/coaches? I guess the engines are distributed DMU engines are smaller and several are used on a train, depending on the configuration. The diesel engine is often mounted under the car floor and on its side because of the restricted space available. Vibration being transmitted into the passenger saloon has always been a problem but some of the newer designs are very good in this respect. Diesel-electric locomotives come in three varieties, according to the period in which they were designed. These three are: DC - DC (DC generator supplying DC traction motors); AC - DC (AC alternator output rectified to supply DC motors) and AC - DC - AC (AC alternator output rectified to DC and then inverted to 3-phase AC for the traction motors). The DC - DC type has a generator supplying the DC traction motors through a resistance control system, the AC - DC type has an alternator producing AC current which is rectified to DC and then supplied to the DC traction motors and, finally, the most modern has the AC alternator output being rectified to DC and then converted to AC (3-phase) so that it can power the 3-phase AC traction motors. Although this last system might seem the most complex, the gains from using AC motors far outweigh the apparent complexity of the system. In reality, most of the equipment uses solid state power electronics with microprocessor-based controls. Exactment...DC-DC are nowadays rare! Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/15/2010 Posts: 126
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dunkang wrote:Impunity wrote:josimar wrote:A project of this magnitude cutting across the landscape will surely encounter challenges eg, land displacements, environmental concerns, wildlife activists etc...I support the project but give it a timeline of 4 to 5 Years from now. Without corruption and local politician interference and with the Chinese speed this project should take 3 years...but nawezawait 5 years. Railway is my thing and I wish the gaament can involve me in the design and setting up stages. I know some of the best diesel locos from Germany which are as reliable as electric locos, the type of locos used in Israel. ION:Israel being one of the tech-savvy country has no got no single kilometer of electric train; all trains are diesel propelled, in types of powerhouses pulling/pushing the wagos and other are DMU's. I once boarded one from Tel-Aiv to Haifa. CORD fanatics will derail the project! How??? "The trouble with not having a goal is that you can spend your life running up and down the field and never score". - Bill Copeland
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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Edyj wrote:dunkang wrote:Impunity wrote:josimar wrote:A project of this magnitude cutting across the landscape will surely encounter challenges eg, land displacements, environmental concerns, wildlife activists etc...I support the project but give it a timeline of 4 to 5 Years from now. Without corruption and local politician interference and with the Chinese speed this project should take 3 years...but nawezawait 5 years. Railway is my thing and I wish the gaament can involve me in the design and setting up stages. I know some of the best diesel locos from Germany which are as reliable as electric locos, the type of locos used in Israel. ION:Israel being one of the tech-savvy country has no got no single kilometer of electric train; all trains are diesel propelled, in types of powerhouses pulling/pushing the wagos and other are DMU's. I once boarded one from Tel-Aiv to Haifa. CORD fanatics will derail the project! How??? So that they have enough fodder to campaign against Jublii! Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 8/23/2013 Posts: 34
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why is it not shameful for us to go to china and other countries for grants and aid after 50 years of independence? do we not have brains/skills equal to the ones the donor countries have? when will we stand up and make something worthwhile for ourselves? you end up with nothing urself when you are always asking asking and never doing anything for yourself.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/30/2008 Posts: 6,029
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timbosho wrote:why is it not shameful for us to go to china and other countries for grants and aid after 50 years of independence? do we not have brains/skills equal to the ones the donor countries have? when will we stand up and make something worthwhile for ourselves? you end up with nothing urself when you are always asking asking and never doing anything for yourself. You come to wazua and begin hating on the govt and ridiculing Kenyans?Do you feed Kenyans?Take your family problems elsewhere!!!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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BTW, how much land does the Kenya Railway have on the side of the Lunatic - I mean how much in width from the current line? I gather maybe an acre or two on the sides. If this is true ( I stand to be corrected), then the SGR can go along the Lunatic.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Rahatupu wrote:BTW, how much land does the Kenya Railway have on the side of the Lunatic - I mean how much in width from the current line? I gather maybe an acre or two on the sides. If this is true ( I stand to be corrected), then the SGR can go along the Lunatic. Land is not problem, but there will be alot of evictions which should be done early "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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murchr wrote:Rahatupu wrote:BTW, how much land does the Kenya Railway have on the side of the Lunatic - I mean how much in width from the current line? I gather maybe an acre or two on the sides. If this is true ( I stand to be corrected), then the SGR can go along the Lunatic. Land is not problem, but there will be alot of evictions which should be done early Minimun 50 metres on either side but most of it is encroached...so painful evictions await! Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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timbosho wrote:why is it not shameful for us to go to china and other countries for grants and aid after 50 years of independence? do we not have brains/skills equal to the ones the donor countries have? when will we stand up and make something worthwhile for ourselves? you end up with nothing urself when you are always asking asking and never doing anything for yourself. Getting loans and grants from a foreign country, nothing untoward. It is actually the norm in financing public projects. The Govt does not have a job and does not engage in enterprise. The Gov will therefore raise money by taxing business or by borrowing internally or externally. In the case of Kenya KShs 500B is alot of money to borrow at once from the local economy. It will cause disruption in the local banking sector. There will be left with no money to lend to private sector leading to higher interest rates. Local credit is also expensive. Bond rates are >10% whereas overseas the rates are <1% in some countries. Lender bears the risk of default. It is not easy to get a loan of KShs 500B payable in 20 or more years from a private bank. A state backed development bank like EXIM can easily assume the risk esp where the loan is sovereign secured. For the reasons above it is makes sense to borrow from overseas to finance huge capital expenses. The loans will be repaid with revenue from the railway, port, pipeline etc. Did you know that the Chinese are the financiers of the US Treasury? Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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mkeiyd wrote:josimar wrote:The biggest beneficiary in this whole arrangement will be China, we shall pay back the loan + interest, if the locomotives are from China be rest assuared that for the next 10Years we shall be purchasing spares from them. All these money will be going to their economy. @josimar, And the alternative would be? Care to share? Do we tax ourselves for several years to raise the amounts needed? How much would we raise and how much would that hurt the economy? If loans are that bad,why do we take loans from banks? Is it that individual development loans are good but gov't development loans are bad? Bottom line is, if the loan is utilized well, the multiplier effect of an efficient transport system out weighs the financing costs. We don't make spare parts of anything,heck we even import toothpicks. Where else would we be getting spare parts from if not importing. What we should be championing is transparency and accountability. Spoken like 7 wise men. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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If this line become fully operational I just wonder what will happen to the thousands of trailers/trucks ferrying containers and other bulky goods from coast to hinterland...those wahindis and warabus ahve inveted billions of shillings in the transport sector. Will they be tempted to plant gurunetis along the line frequently in order to derail this competition? Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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Impunity wrote:If this line become fully operational I just wonder what will happen to the thousands of trailers/trucks ferrying containers and other bulky goods from coast to hinterland...those wahindis and warabus ahve inveted billions of shillings in the transport sector.
Will they be tempted to plant gurunetis along the line frequently in order to derail this competition?
That’s a valid concern right there. We should expect delay tactics from many quarters including political foes, other contractors, haulers, man eaters?, etc and I hope the govt is ready for that. However, it shouldn’t be doom and gloom for truck owners from the word go. Given the number of people employed in this sector, Govt is unlikely to outlaw truck transport. Most likely the trucks will continue to operate in competition with the new kid in the block. This will lead to reduction of road transport prices. The SGR will offer advantage on speed and someone will have a chance to choose what means to use. All players including RVR will be forced to lower prices to bare minimum in order to survive.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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limanika wrote:Impunity wrote:If this line become fully operational I just wonder what will happen to the thousands of trailers/trucks ferrying containers and other bulky goods from coast to hinterland...those wahindis and warabus ahve inveted billions of shillings in the transport sector.
Will they be tempted to plant gurunetis along the line frequently in order to derail this competition?
That’s a valid concern right there. We should expect delay tactics from many quarters including political foes, other contractors, haulers, man eaters?, etc and I hope the govt is ready for that. However, it shouldn’t be doom and gloom for truck owners from the word go. Given the number of people employed in this sector, Govt is unlikely to outlaw truck transport. Most likely the trucks will continue to operate in competition with the new kid in the block. This will lead to reduction of road transport prices. The SGR will offer advantage on speed and someone will have a chance to choose what means to use. All players including RVR will be forced to lower prices to bare minimum in order to survive. Ati man eaters!  ION: You cannot mention RVR with competition in the same sentence. Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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