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Owning idle land to become costly
Djinn
#11 Posted : Wednesday, November 04, 2009 10:26:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 1,565
@all - thanks for your very astute observations and remarks - if only you guys were the task force itself - the bill would be in parliament tomorrow afternoon....and if you were MPs (plus another 200),we'd have a suitable law governing arable,residential and commercial land,with requisite taxation guidelines.....and we'd have 1000k hectares within reach of wanjiku (onyango,khamisi and wafula)...thus removing the thorn from Kenya's bleeding heart and ensuring a very equitable post 2012 era in which agriculture thrives,people subsist and become less of a burden to the government...of course,in reality,this will fuel debate and work its way to the front page from the back...another red herring while Ocampo is in town - perhaps window dressing (to show reforms are underway)... The problem with equality is that we desire that it be with those that have more than us rather that those that have less
mukiha
#12 Posted : Wednesday, November 04, 2009 11:00:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@Mainat & FundametAli; This is why I suggest we tax ALL land,used or unused. It is very difficult to define what is idle and what is utilised. A flat rate per acre solves that problem. And,by the way,we already have the law in operation; only that the [land] Rates are so ridiculously small that anyone can buy a parcel and keep it for 20 yrs without feeling the pinch. Think about it; I pay only sh1,400 per year for my house in Nairobi. And if the land was not developed [i.e. if the house was not there],the rate would be much lower. Come to think about it,the current state of affairs taxes utilised land and spares that which is idle. In other words,we discourage people from developing their land! Ridiculous,isn't it? Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
bwenyenye
#13 Posted : Wednesday, November 04, 2009 1:20:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
@mukiha How does impasing heavy taxes on all land help solve the problem. It would only ensure that only the super rich own land in Kenya. How? because 99.99% would default at one time or another and the government would reposses and sell to thos e who can afford! I think that the governement should look at it this way. Have a policy whereby They uproot all coffee and tea and plant maize and beans ( This will feed Kenya) Subdivide the country ( especially rural areas) into batches of 200K ha. Move all the people into a small town with all amenities then give them shares to a company that owns the land relative to the acreage each has given up. The company then runs the huge farms employing the shareholders and mechanises all operations. The guys get paid dividend at the end of the year. This will tame rural- urban migration as citites will be everywhere Lock all physics professors in this country in a room and demand the do not leave until they produce a solar driven vehicle and ensure that all trains are electric ( this reduces our reliance on oil which we do not have) Maintain a federal system of government where the mayor of each town runs his shop and have a ceremonial central government No wonder I am not in politics!
I Think Therefore I Am
FundamentAli
#14 Posted : Wednesday, November 04, 2009 1:35:00 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 1,289
Location: Nairobi
@Mukiha Any blanket tax on land will mean an increase in the cost of production of food hence putting kenya in a comparative disadvantage. This cost will have to be recovered at some point. @Djinn, You can only solve Wanjiku and Wafulas problem temporarily. Do not even try. You will be encountering bigger problems from them in future Baada ya dhiki,faaraja
mukiha
#15 Posted : Wednesday, November 04, 2009 1:58:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@bwenyenye & FundametAli; Now I change my mind.... Let's not tax land at all In fact,what is the purpose of the land rent collected by the Ministry of Lands? At least local councils PRETEND that the Rates they collect are to be used in service provision... And by the way,what is wrong with having idle land? Or idle [other] property...e.g.,check any woman's wardrobe and you will see a lot of idle property.....clothes that have never been worn since they were bought six and a half years ago......what wrong with that? I think this idea to tax idle land arises from jealousy. People see you with a large piece of land that you are not using and the want to invent a [legal] way of taking it away from you...wivu mtupu!!!!. And who said that you need land to become economically independent? How much land has Singapore? How much of their food do they grow on their God-forsaken island? @bwenyenye,I agree with you,we have to think without the box! Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Kirethi
#16 Posted : Wednesday, November 04, 2009 2:21:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/6/2008
Posts: 21
Before introducing this tax all the councils beginning with Nairobi should be required to be publishing annually /semiannually what they have done with all the landrates collected so far. For average kenyans saving up to buy even an 1/8 of an acre is a hustle so one can imagine developing it is another two to three years. More taxation does not bring about efficiency nor encourage development,countries that have lowest levels of taxes attract more investment. So this policy on any more taxes be it idle/useful land is ill advised and not geared towards development/growth of our economy. Watu wachangamuke
half_empty
#17 Posted : Wednesday, November 04, 2009 2:41:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/23/2007
Posts: 127
another good policy that may never see the light of day...and lets not get mixed up... revenue collection is a good thing... government spending is a whole other subject
tony stark
#18 Posted : Wednesday, November 04, 2009 5:47:00 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
I honestly think it is a good nay a great idea that they are introducing. The problem of owning land and not utilising it is the only way you can make profit from the land is through speculation. What happens is that land will be bought out horded by a few individuals and once demand climbs the sell it in smaller portions for a ridiculously high amount of money!! I think land that was meant to be agricultural land should stay that way! We are running out of fertile lands and once the large scale farmers become speculators selling plots all over kiambu and thika what will people eat. We should also tax people who go about splitting agricultural land even higher!! Our subsistence farming is not a viable method of feeding this country because our population is about to hit 40+ million and will continue to grow exponentially. Subsitence farming will not be sustainable!!! SK A.L.U.M.N.I (Alcoholic Liason and Undergarments Manager of Nakedness Internationally)
tony stark
#19 Posted : Wednesday, November 04, 2009 5:52:00 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
In as much as we have thick MPigs i think the technocrats in most of these ministries are forward thinking. Fertile land should be consolidated and people who want to farm as a profession should be given a chance. Zimbabwe was a great example of commercial farming and those farmers later moved to zambia malawi and these countries are now becoming self sufficient and even exporting food to the former bread basket of Africa. @ Muhika ..... Idle land is a big crime. Especially so in a country that is always ravaged by drought. SK A.L.U.M.N.I (Alcoholic Liason and Undergarments Manager of Nakedness Internationally)
itz
#20 Posted : Wednesday, November 04, 2009 8:17:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/20/2009
Posts: 348
Great discussion going on herefolks.For those who are opposed to such an initiative to tax land,i hope you realize in the next few years with current trends you will be priced out of land/home ownership because of land speculators.i am a capitalist but capitalism also needs regulation otherwise animal spirits run wild and the aftermath could be terrible.Ofcourse i would not support a policy that makes land ownership almost punitive but one that would discourage pure speculative intentions of owning land.Also taxation would be divided into land use(residential,commercial,agricultural) and location(as we develop new cities and would be at different rates.
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