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KQ-11TH AUGUST 2009 STRIKE IS ON!
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,137 Location: Nairobi
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@njunge - Which lower cadres are you talking of? A janitor making 21k is great! I can tell you that there will be a line a mile long for those jobs at 21k. ___* Who are these so-called peers in the region? Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/16/2009 Posts: 1,464
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VVsana,
Compare what Emirates check-in agents earn with KQ check-in agents at J.K.I.A
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/2/2006 Posts: 1,206 Location: Nairobi
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@Pierce, Why do you compare Emirates with KQ?The two are in the same industry but obviously not in competition. Its like saying e.g Equity Bank Employees should be paid to match CitiBank (CitiGroup) employees.....not possible man!Hata kama wako in the same country. . .not that local companies don't value employees....but its a business not charity.Would you employ a house help at 15k a month if you could get the same for 5k?The 5k one could even be more educated and 'cooks' better......but bottom line is profits.Instead of complaining i think they should all apply to Emirates,QR and Virgin so that other people get these 'bad' jobs. The world is changed by those who dare dream. Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/20/2006 Posts: 277
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The fact that it has come to this irrespective of the merits and demerits thereof - of the strike(staff are aware that they can be sacked and this is the risk 'fighters' have to take,remember no staff strike in Kenya has ever been accepted) does not reflect very well on management to its shareholders and customers.
No wonder we have had a number of threads right here on disappointements with KQ with almost nil customer service. A customer centric organization must be very careful and if i were KQ management i would be very worried.
The alternative which is even worse is for those staff to stay put,disgruntled as they might be,and 'sabotage' from inside or do the minimum possible out of their jobs.
For some time now i have had a feeling that KQ should re-invent itself to get back on track. Currently there are too many competitors locally and around and i hope some strategist would be found but not to recall previously relieved off mzungu directors.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,137 Location: Nairobi
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@pierce Pls send me details/comparisons ____ does any Skerian provide real details (not assumptions) on what KQ vs other salos are? ____ When I think peers... I am thinking mostly African airlines. Emirates competes with the likes of KLM & BA Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,137 Location: Nairobi
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No matter how much an employer pays... an employee will always want more... fact of life... That's why employees have the right to change jobs... especially at the lower cadres... For those who think KQ is underpaying them,take a hike to EK,QR or BA... Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/25/2006 Posts: 101
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The best airline to do a comparison would be Ethiopian Airlines considering fleet size,routes,gross revenue etc.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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@VVS, No need to be too passionate about this issue unless you are the HR at KQ....... @Gladiator, Peers need not be from the same industry. Old man about town.... Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/18/2009 Posts: 15
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And true to your word,i hear KQ just trains then the employees take off to better paying airlines. That means,KQ prefers paying money for training instead of improving its employees pay?? in the long term,it could be very detrimental to KQ
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/5/2007 Posts: 627
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@VVS: Last time I checked (last year) KQ flight attendants get a retainer of 30k (2nd year attendants), add allowances of 50$ for every night overseas and 20$ within Africa. Emirates get at least 1,200$ plus allowances.
Immorality: The morality of those who are having a better time!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/2/2006 Posts: 1,206 Location: Nairobi
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Wow!Thats a huge difference.....I know QR cabin crew get allowances + salary equivalent to around 180,000Ksh tax free for 2nd years.But it's all a matter of demand Vs supply for your skills....kama you are underpaid then hama! And the same applies for many other industries.What smart employees do is hama....not complain.Im sure there is someone who would do that 30k retainer job and not even ask for allowances. Demand Vs Supply rules. The world is changed by those who dare dream. Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,137 Location: Nairobi
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@njunge - I am a shareholder unlike you. I am NOT interested in paying higher salaries that are unsustainable. Perhaps better to sell of all assets asap & close the airline. Let all the staff (except the jamaa sending me my dividend) go home. ____* Sasha - Then y are the staff not hamaing to Emirates? Why complain? Doesn't EK have a local recruiting office? Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/13/2008 Posts: 5
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junior cabin crew earn a basic of about 25k house allowance of 13k 70usd for every night spent out plus other allowance like duty free sales which puts gross pay at about 100k on an average month. Managements offer is only on fixed allowances which are just basic and house allowance and at 13%
jer 29:11
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,137 Location: Nairobi
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Asante for actual numbers. ______ 1) How many (typical) hours a month does a typical junior crew member work? ______2) How much post secondary training does a junior crew member go through without being paid (or employed) by KQ? _____ 3) Who provides/pays for training before KQ hires? Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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@VVS, That's most interesting.......How would you know i don't own KQ shares??.......Well,always remember this;......NEVER FALL IN LOVE WITH A STOCK....!! Old man about town.... Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/4/2008 Posts: 1,289 Location: Nairobi
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I wonder whether Fly540,Jetlink,EA Safari express and Air Kenya staff are part of this union? If they are not,KQ is at a disadvantage locally. They will not be able to compete locally. Unions can be anti-business.
Fundamentals + Sentiments = Position
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/27/2008 Posts: 3,760
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But surely a flight engineer and cabin crew are critical to the flying of a plane. So who in HR at KQ decided they should be unionised? Get them into management (if they make 100K then the raise will not be much more). Then they can be dealt with one by one.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/13/2008 Posts: 5
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@vvs
its difficult to tell how many hours a typical crew does in a month since their productivity is pegged on days worked not hours,however there are daily limits of upto fifteen hours in a twenty four hour period. what is considered though is that they get atleast eight days off in a month and do not work more than five days in a row. As for the post secondary training all it takes is a three month training course before completing the rest of the training on actual line flying. during the training kq meets the training and maintenance costs. And that is why they will gladly fire those that do not toe the line as training a new class is easy work and not too costly either
jer 29:11
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2008 Posts: 380
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COTU joins the table..
This is a very good example of how Unions can criple a company.
2 days of lost revenues so far. Bad company image. bad customer perceptions. Indirect loses,e.g. unplanned extra costs for the passengers,loss of business,e.t.c.
Where will their pay come from this month?
I believe in market forces determining market renumeration. If you value your workers compensate them adequately. In a service oriented company,the most valuable resource is the human skill. They can break or make the company. Important lesson for KQ and all other service oriented companies.
On the other hand,130% increase at once - really?? maybe spread it over 10 years,the same way teachers got their increase. You dont wake up,were being paid 50K and now want to be paid 115K overnight,and demand that the company does the same for everybody. How high an increase any employee gets is dependent on their performance. and that is why,some guys can get 10% increase,while others get 50%.
If i was KQ management,i would:
- give them a deal that makes them go back to work. e.g. 25% increase immediately,and stagger the rest of the 65% over 10 years.
- dont sack immediately.
- Take the opportunity to learn the issues of the employees as regards the disparity in salaries,and address ut. Employees in some companies abroad take pay cuts if it is necessary.
- Good opportunity to identify unproductive workers and get them out.
- Right size. Identify it.. Seek ways to do it. dont victimize.
At the end of the day,the bottomline is always money and job satisfaction. Work on this and you have a successful company.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,137 Location: Nairobi
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@GG - LOL... thinking like the real GG... I like that! _____@fund-Ali:True dat ____@njunge: Agree as to 'love' a stock... bad idea... lakini I am generally anti-union... wacha KQ employee if they are underpaid... Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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KQ-11TH AUGUST 2009 STRIKE IS ON!
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