this is not about you or other groups or anyone else. Lets not mention them, but because you have brought it up just a brief intro that I think is relevant; I remember maxwel very well, despite the passage of years.

My dad was also a rebel much like you and he let my mom a staunch catholic bring us up as, well, staunch catholics.

We had done all the rites; baptism, confirmation etc but they still maintained their links to us up to today when I see you are advertising for a camp meeting. So its hard for me to reconcile my knowledge about you and your description about yourself. You see the hard spot you have put me in?

And I find it strange that Adventists bend over backward to appease even when there nothing to apologize for or feel angry about.

And as I told mukiri earlier, rather than criticize the person, I would look beyond him to the system of beliefs he / she holds. Therefore, I have just read through fundamental beliefs just to be sure.

Lets talk about those things that have induced rebellion, in this case trousers.

What I want to know is have they given the members precise measurements of cloth to wear much as a uniform or is it left to the discretion of the members but limited to certain parameters?

If the members are given freedom within limits I see no point of testing those limits. The limits are the super conservative to the super liberal.

The clash between these two reminds me of a fable.

Some birds, for some reason, found a way into the chicken coop. A fox also got in. But it was the birds that made the most commotion fluttering and squawking about. Now whereas it was the birds that needed urgently to be removed to maintain some semblance of peace, it was the fox that would do the most damage.

The moral of the story is that the trousers are the birds in the Adventist coop.

What / where is the fox?

Camp almost done. And I have been seeing people in trousers and no one bothers about them....

So I have made my first (sleuths, please not the italics for your future reference to help fill in the blanks) purchase of books at camp.

Adventist Home - I want to know how the Adventist home ought to be. Maybe I will understand CLKs rebellion.

Child Guidance - I want to know how the conduct of Adventist parents and children ought to be. Maybe I will understand CLKs rebellion again.

Adventurer Awards & Resource Manual - CLK has mentioned Adventurers, I want to know what they do.

Early Writings - A potentially good read.

I will return shortly.

Yes ma'am the one and the same.

Saturday I will be working, but will see if possible afternoon. But still plan to attend the whole day one of these Saturdays.

But I hope we will still discuss after I have read.

Hello mum.

The camp was awesome!

So I started with that Child Guidance and read a bit of it specifically Chapters 65 and 66. I checked out the table of contents first and thought they might be interesting.

Would you, reconsider your rebellion in the matter of trousers if you discover it is without cause?

Because I found that:
1. Adventists can follow prevailing customs if modest, healthtul and convenient.
2. No precise style has been given to Adventists.
3. Adventists should avoid extremes in dress.
4. Adventists should avoid any device designed to attract attention to the wearer or excite admiration and also to avoid being shabbily dressed.
5. Adventists should remember that God considered the matter of dress of sufficient importance enough to give explicit directions in regard to it.
6. Adventists should not make dress a subject of controversy and try to be the conscience of the next person and each to have their own conscience.

The Adventist Home.

Quite interesting but could not find where this subject is described explicitly.

chapter 55 'Moral Standards' there is mention of 'Both men and women must keep their place and live above reproach' - that the mind of a man or woman does not come down in a moment from purity and holiness to depravity, corruption and crime so by beholding you become changed. So women professing the truth to keep strict guard over themselves lest the least encouragement be given to unwarrantable familiarity.

Halafu

'women must hold high standard of conduct' - she may have had no unlawful purpose or motive but she has given encouragement to men who are tempted and who need all the help they can get from those associated with them.

lol ati



I think that whereas each one has a duty to control his thoughts, others must help him by doing their part by avoiding to lay a 'trap' for him.


CLK, CLK, are you still around or you have gone?

I like Adventists. They have a department called Health and Temperance. Basically what they teach is what you would pay your nutritionist to teach you.

I initially knew little about them, and used to say they dont want pple to eat meat, take tea etc...but I later learnt that it is not a rule but an advice and a strong recommendation to eat healthy and live healthy.

They call doctors and health professionals on some days to talk specifically about health. The last i attended was about breast cancer and a number of pple benefited

Kudos on that

CLK, CLK!

Ma'am,

I was there on 5th and spent the whole day with them. I dressed casually and I saw many had their formal attire but none spoke with me save a friendly not-so-young man who sat next to me who asked me my name, where I come from etc and appeared mighty interested in my answers.

They have definitely not changed. Its still the good ol' same Maxwell.

I even saw a young lady in a skirt reaching just above her knees a lot like the netball skirts and, in the afternoon, I saw her go up to the front to put a note in a box. What I did not see was her uncomfortable or being glared at.

Then it was announced that next week 'we' are going to Newlife that is 'across the road'. Now I know 'across the road' is the police station.

Anyway, so far so good.

then brethren must be sinning left right center considering the way people dress in Nairobi, and we have no way of controlling how people dress, but we can control how we feel or what we do when we see those skimpily dressed, right?
then we can welcome them into the church and teach them how to dress, right?
but not by first judging and pointing fingers at them.
Sometimes back i saw a single mother preach in church, not sure the circumstances that led to her being single, but i must say that church has evolved, positively. Back in the day, for you to serve in the church, your entire family tree had to be looked into. the church manual is helping a lot, considering back in the day it used to be almost at the discretion of the lead pastor to run his church whichever way he saw best

I doubt there are any Saints on earth.. 'For all have fallen short of the glory of God..' It is why Christ came... 'that we may have life and have it abundantly..'

My understanding of Holy Communion is not about perfection but self-examination. Infact even before one says a prayer, I believe they should self-examine. It might be the reason that both start with repentance. An earthly example: Would you go telling your boss your problems when you are in his bad books? Wouldn't it be prudent to first get onto his good side?

Clean your heart, clean your intent and purpose to remain in the straight and narrow then remember Him(Holy Communion), commune with Him(Prayer), revel in Him(Worship)

1 Corinthians 11:28-32 ~ But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

Yes, I think the brethren are sinning thoroughly. They look and do it in their minds. Very few can control their thoughts, most let it wander.

I dressed 'outrageously' considering the rest of the people on 5th but I was not shooed away. I hope no one concentrated on me and not what was being said. Now I have urges to return there.

Maybe they welcomed me, yet again, then they start teaching me how to dress later. Honestly none pointed a finger at me. Maybe the same with the lady I mentioned earlier. So I give it up to them on that point.

When you went with the earrings and necklace that you mentioned earlier, did they judge you and point their fingers at you? Where was this that you went?

One is responsible for what he thinks and he cannot transfer this reponsibility to another. If it happened that way, Adam could have escaped.