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Can I take a loan to invest in the stock market?
mBiaLoss
#1 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 8:22:36 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 52
Location: Majuu
Tell me Wazuans, I can see the NSE has bottomed out and from now, the only way things can go is up....unless some of the super-low counters really go bankrupt and that is a risk am willing to take.
Now problem is; i don't have cash right now to invest and am afraid I will lose the opportunity. Can I take a loan to invest? Common sense says no..because if the companies goes bankrupt then am stuck with a loan to pay out of my future earnings...But if I sit here like a dummy I may never get a chance to invest at the right time....
If I get a loan well, (at less than 10% interest) can I take it and invest?

As an investor I behave like a tick, patiently waiting on grass and larch onto the first cow that shows up. As an investor I dont behave like a tick...I jump off the the cow as soon as am fully engorged before it dies...
xxxxx
#2 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 8:38:55 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 503
mBiaLoss wrote:
Tell me Wazuans, I can see the NSE has bottomed out and from now, the only way things can go is up....unless some of the super-low counters really go bankrupt and that is a risk am willing to take.
Now problem is; i don't have cash right now to invest and am afraid I will lose the opportunity. Can I take a loan to invest? Common sense says no..because if the companies goes bankrupt then am stuck with a loan to pay out of my future earnings...But if I sit here like a dummy I may never get a chance to invest at the right time....
If I get a loan well, (at less than 10% interest) can I take it and invest?



Do you have other consistent cash flow sources to regularly service the loan instalments?
mBiaLoss
#3 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 8:40:55 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 52
Location: Majuu
@ xxxxx... Yes I can service the loan...
As an investor I behave like a tick, patiently waiting on grass and larch onto the first cow that shows up. As an investor I dont behave like a tick...I jump off the the cow as soon as am fully engorged before it dies...
georgegop
#4 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 10:30:22 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/30/2010
Posts: 183
Location: Migingo
Personally, i'd rather not take a loan to buy shares. I only invest my savings, no matter how small it could be. The money i invest in the stock market is the money that i dont need to use in the short term. Its the money am "willing to throw away". To me, investment in shares is a long term thing and the speculative returns that i get in between is just a bonus...
Don't Work for Money, Let Money Work for You..
obiero
#5 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 10:46:58 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,556
Location: nairobi
georgegop wrote:
Personally, i'd rather not take a loan to buy shares. I only invest my savings, no matter how small it could be. The money i invest in the stock market is the money that i dont need to use in the short term. Its the money am "willing to throw away". To me, investment in shares is a long term thing and the speculative returns that i get in between is just a bonus...

^ this is good advise but incase you are young and have chosen a counter that can outperform the interst on your loan, then go ahead and take the loan! however, its not easy to make a decent profit from this move since u will be aimin to simply break even from the loan before obtainin real profit from the share which means the chosen share will have to rise about 20% to be considered worthwhile..

COOP 70,000 ABP 15.20; HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
Mastermind
#6 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 11:03:24 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/25/2012
Posts: 1,624
Location: Langley
mBiaLoss wrote:
@ xxxxx... Yes I can service the loan...

Go for it then. But be prepared for the worst.
If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them.
zizzi
#7 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 11:40:12 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 33
Location: Nbi
mBiaLoss wrote:
Tell me Wazuans, I can see the NSE has bottomed out and from now, the only way things can go is up....unless some of the super-low counters really go bankrupt and that is a risk am willing to take.
Now problem is; i don't have cash right now to invest and am afraid I will lose the opportunity. Can I take a loan to invest? Common sense says no..because if the companies goes bankrupt then am stuck with a loan to pay out of my future earnings...But if I sit here like a dummy I may never get a chance to invest at the right time....
If I get a loan well, (at less than 10% interest) can I take it and invest?



I would highly recommend no, but since you have the idea in your head, you may feel uncomfortable listening to someone who says differently to what you have in mind.

Point 1:
At most, the Nairobi Stock market will increase by an additional 50% in a year (its highly unlikely to see a market increase 50% in two consecutive years unless of hyper inflation).

On average, the stock market should rise in line with the GDP rate (because over the long term, it is highly unlikely a company will consistently grow faster than an economy).

So to highlight this point, Kenya's GDP according to Google in 2011 was US$33B (in KSH 2.93T). Safaricom's market cap recently was KSH 320B.

If the Kenyan economy were to grow at 5% for the next 30 years (so till say 2040) and you expect Safaricom to grow at 15% for the next 30 years, Safaricom's market cap in 2040 will be higher than Kenya's GDP. If you want the excel file let me know.

The same is true of East African Breweries, KCB will be close to the size of Kenya's GDP. Basically, you realise quickly that no stock will over the long run beat GDP...on average.

Point 2:
The Nairobi Stock Exchange market cap at present is KSH 1.8T (https://www.nse.co.ke/ - bottom right). If Kenya's GDP is roughly KSH 3T, the NSE is actually very expensive in relation to GDP than most stock exchanges in the World (look for World Bank market cap-to-GDP statistics). It is also unlikely that the NSE can become much larger than our GDP simply by compounding faster.

So, actually, your mind is telling you there is no way the stock market will go down, but in all probability, it is actually more likely to go down now simply because it is so expensive.

Point 3:
If you are smart you won't need debt - you'll just need time and if you are dumb, you got no business to be in debt.

Patience is key.


And last, of all, write down your last five years of investments. What rate did you compound your money. The key word here is 'write'. Don't just have a general idea, know the rate at which you compounded your money. If you are not sure of this, you should not be going into debt.


People always will feel they will miss the boat. That's the downfall of most people.

symbols
#8 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 1:02:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
If you have the cash flow to repay the loan you are already ahead.The returns might be higher using a loan but I don't think you appreciate the risk you would be taking.You're not risking the loan,you are risking your cash flow and in essence taking yourself out of the game for a period of time.

Like @zizzi has pointed out patience is key.There are always other opportunities out there but if you don't have the cash to take advantage of them it doesn't matter.At the end of the day its about growing your cash flow not compromising it.With cash + ROI,compounding will propel you to where you want to go.If you can grow the cash you have banks will chase you not you them.
mlennyma
#9 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 1:28:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,183
Location: nairobi
If i were you i would pinch myself very hard so that i can never think of doing that,its not guaranteed the market will grow as you think.just take your loan and service it your own way,then play the casino.
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
mlennyma
#10 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 1:33:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,183
Location: nairobi
The nse is very far up if you didnt takeoff with it,so dont rely on it to service your loan unless you meet the nse rare fortunes.
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
vky
#11 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 1:33:51 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/17/2010
Posts: 572
Take the loan but dont put it in stocks go for bonds with 10yr+ tenures, anything from 10m will yield good returns and you will be smug every six months
'One headache for famous medieval holy people was that someone might murder you to acquire your body parts for the relics trade'
itz
#12 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 6:07:57 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2009
Posts: 348
vky wrote:
Take the loan but dont put it in stocks go for bonds with 10yr+ tenures, anything from 10m will yield good returns and you will be smug every six months

@vyk.could you please demonstrate a small scenario with figures how taking a loan would yield positive cash flow over the life of the loan.thanks
kaka2za
#13 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 6:47:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,057
Location: Gwitu
In short the answer is no you shouldn't.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
maka
#14 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 7:21:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
NO
possunt quia posse videntur
Jamani
#15 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 7:53:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
No bank will give you a loan or rather finance you to buy shares, or mutual funds etc. They may give you a personal loan which you may divert to buy shares. But try walking into a bank and ask for a loan to buy shares, they will laugh at you, most bankers believe stock investment is gambling.... they won't give you money to take to the "NSE casino".
dunkang
#16 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 8:11:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
mBiaLoss wrote:
Tell me Wazuans, I can see the NSE has bottomed out and from now, the only way things can go is up....unless some of the super-low counters really go bankrupt and that is a risk am willing to take.
Now problem is; i don't have cash right now to invest and am afraid I will lose the opportunity. Can I take a loan to invest? Common sense says no..because if the companies goes bankrupt then am stuck with a loan to pay out of my future earnings...But if I sit here like a dummy I may never get a chance to invest at the right time....
If I get a loan well, (at less than 10% interest) can I take it and invest?


NEVER! But if you insist, do it and keep us updated!
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

Angelica _ann
#17 Posted : Friday, August 09, 2013 8:58:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
This is a NO, NO! Try & you will learn the hard way. You repay loan principal plus interest as you watch paper loss on the value of your shares!
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
murchr
#18 Posted : Saturday, August 10, 2013 12:08:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
mBiaLoss wrote:
Tell me Wazuans, I can see the NSE has bottomed out and from now, the only way things can go is up....unless some of the super-low counters really go bankrupt and that is a risk am willing to take.
Now problem is; i don't have cash right now to invest and am afraid I will lose the opportunity. Can I take a loan to invest? Common sense says no..because if the companies goes bankrupt then am stuck with a loan to pay out of my future earnings...But if I sit here like a dummy I may never get a chance to invest at the right time....
If I get a loan well, (at less than 10% interest) can I take it and invest?



No. Because 1. it multiplies your risk, and the cost of borrowing may end up being very high.

If you choose to, borrow from family or friends who agree to give you the money without any interest rate attached to it and without a refund timeline. However, be prepared to lose these friends if things dont end up going the right way.

If you are sure that you will have the money say by the end of the month then see if your broker can give you some financing options many brokerage firms offer the service as long as you have been a customer for a while and hold a substantial holding.

All the best, as someone has said, if you're a dare devil and are willing to risk it all...go for it and come back and give us your lessons.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
zizzi
#19 Posted : Saturday, August 10, 2013 12:35:17 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 33
Location: Nbi
mBiaLoss wrote:
Tell me Wazuans, I can see the NSE has bottomed out and from now, the only way things can go is up....unless some of the super-low counters really go bankrupt and that is a risk am willing to take.
Now problem is; i don't have cash right now to invest and am afraid I will lose the opportunity. Can I take a loan to invest? Common sense says no..because if the companies goes bankrupt then am stuck with a loan to pay out of my future earnings...But if I sit here like a dummy I may never get a chance to invest at the right time....
If I get a loan well, (at less than 10% interest) can I take it and invest?



I just wanted to share this with you

http://www.tilsonfunds.c...ttUofNebraskaspeech.pdf

You should focus on pg 19 when you get the chance
mBiaLoss
#20 Posted : Saturday, August 10, 2013 6:08:01 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 52
Location: Majuu
Thank ya all. Wengi wamesema hapana. And will listen to the majority.
As an investor I behave like a tick, patiently waiting on grass and larch onto the first cow that shows up. As an investor I dont behave like a tick...I jump off the the cow as soon as am fully engorged before it dies...
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