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Archbishop Tutu:I'd rather go to hell than worship a homophobic God
tycho
#51 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2013 9:54:27 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Mukiri wrote:
tycho wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
tycho wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
tycho wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
I would want to go to heaven.. seeing as it is we spend a very short time on earth. 100 years is short. Getting to the age I am happened very very fast.. its only the other day I was playing with other kids.

So far, this life has taught me, 'You plant, You harvest'. I am a sum total of decisions I made a long time ago. I know that my choices now, will determine my life in old age.

Many use the Bible to help them 'get to heaven'.. It's ones prerogative, I guess. I use my Bible to guide me on my life on earth. Its proven and tested, has helped many people live a good life (whether or not they get to heaven) and I can see it working for me.


Considering, that Christ is the hungry man, the sick, and naked, would you say the Bible has served you well?

In whose life do you expect to see the effect of your righteousness?

Maybe your time would be better spent on your knees seeking the answers to questions that gnaw at you...


Is this a version of, 'Mind your business'?

Paradoxically, I am on my knees now. And @Mukiri happens to be 'eavesdropping'.

I'm not that rude.. God is wiser than any of us purport to be. He has all the answers. If you ask me, I'll only fiddle with my Bible, for which you also have a copy.


I guess you're right. I must accept the silence of God, and be still.

Alas, the silence says 'Yes', to everything.

Silence of God? Kiyana toa mbegu! God is always 'talking' to us... 'Be still...' you've been told... 'Shut up..' 'Seek..' 'Kneel..' PRAY!!! And maybe, just maybe in the midst of your noise-making... in the midst of your know-it-all, you will 'hear' Him.


Yes!
marko
#52 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2013 9:57:52 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/7/2007
Posts: 838
Wakanyugi wrote:
marko wrote:
God created man and woman..to be companions and compliment each other. If he is so tolerant on homosexuals, then explain why he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah


I wish Christian fanatics would not use this as an example to prove God's hatred of gays - as if that somehow justifies their own fear and hatred.

A God who bombs a city, killing women, children, animals - guilty and innocent - just because it harbors a few gays is worse than homophobic.

Genocidal, is the word I am looking for.

This is the being you want us to worship?


Wakanyugi...Our God who has a son forgives those who sin and never remembers the sin anymore. That is what makes Him so great.
WHO DARES WINS
Wakanyugi
#53 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2013 11:19:46 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
marko wrote:
Wakanyugi...Our God who has a son forgives those who sin and never remembers the sin anymore. That is what makes Him so great.


Marko, the God who gave his son for the World and the a-hole who nuked Sodom and Gomorrah are two very different beings. It is like comparing Hitler with the Dalai Lama.

I am not sure either of them needs our worship to feel complete. Do you need your children to praise you every day to feel 'a father?'

But at least we can agreed on one thing. God has to forgive a lot of sins and forget. He has no choice, unless he wants to end up in Mathare. .


"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
symbols
#54 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2013 3:02:34 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
digitek1 wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
marko wrote:
God created man and woman..to be companions and compliment each other. If he is so tolerant on homosexuals, then explain why he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah


I wish Christian fanatics would not use this as an example to prove God's hatred of gays - as if that somehow justifies their own fear and hatred.

A God who bombs a city, killing women, children, animals - guilty and innocent - just because it harbors a few gays is worse than homophobic.

Genocidal, is the word I am looking for.

This is the being you want us to worship?

thats nothing compared to the eternal gnashing of teeth in the lake of fire...but in his magnanimity he has given u freedom to choose


It starts right here on earth.We have become so accustomed to pain and driven so much by anger that we fail to see its slowly consuming us and taking away what we hold precious.And what do we do after that,we just get angrier and continue to feed the flames that devour us.
i_am_saved
#55 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:14:52 AM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 6/12/2013
Posts: 69
symbols wrote:
digitek1 wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
marko wrote:
God created man and woman..to be companions and compliment each other. If he is so tolerant on homosexuals, then explain why he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah


I wish Christian fanatics would not use this as an example to prove God's hatred of gays - as if that somehow justifies their own fear and hatred.

A God who bombs a city, killing women, children, animals - guilty and innocent - just because it harbors a few gays is worse than homophobic.

Genocidal, is the word I am looking for.

This is the being you want us to worship?

thats nothing compared to the eternal gnashing of teeth in the lake of fire...but in his magnanimity he has given u freedom to choose


It starts right here on earth.We have become so accustomed to pain and driven so much by anger that we fail to see its slowly consuming us and taking away what we hold precious.And what do we do after that,we just get angrier and continue to feed the flames that devour us.


Please allow me to get into the convo Marko and Wakanyungi are having - the one of Tycho and Mukiri is directionless, heading nowhere and frankly a waste of time.

Christianity, the one I know is not a universal soup religion.

It calls people to leave some beleifs, habits, associations, practises.

It calls people to come out of what it describes as confusion.

But nothing stops an individual from holding on to one or two or more things including the ones expressely forbidden.

Or dropping off one or two or more unpalatable issues.

You can pick and choose what you will follow and what you wont and still call yourself a christian.

No one is compelling anyone to worship a 'homophobic' diety, who is also a 'dictator' and a 'mass murderer'. Those who feel so strongly against it can as easily organize themselves and worship whoever they want how they want as easily as they can target the worshipers of the 'tyrant' diety.

All sorts of orientations and alignments can be added and integrated into christianity or subtracted as desired in the name of love, mercy, acceptance - it has been done and will continue being done.

But there will always be a few who wont buy into the additions and subtractions but they will not, nay, cannot stop the adders and subtracters from adding and subtracting.

In the end, there will be a most distinct separation, not universalism, unity, oneness, love, togetherness, acceptance, harmony.

1. those who keep the commandments of God (the law), and the faith of Jesus

2. and those who just dont (maybe they add and subtract as it suits their interpretations, inclinations etc).
Just for Mukiri.
tycho
#56 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2013 10:45:58 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
i_am_saved wrote:
symbols wrote:
digitek1 wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
marko wrote:
God created man and woman..to be companions and compliment each other. If he is so tolerant on homosexuals, then explain why he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah


I wish Christian fanatics would not use this as an example to prove God's hatred of gays - as if that somehow justifies their own fear and hatred.

A God who bombs a city, killing women, children, animals - guilty and innocent - just because it harbors a few gays is worse than homophobic.

Genocidal, is the word I am looking for.

This is the being you want us to worship?

thats nothing compared to the eternal gnashing of teeth in the lake of fire...but in his magnanimity he has given u freedom to choose


It starts right here on earth.We have become so accustomed to pain and driven so much by anger that we fail to see its slowly consuming us and taking away what we hold precious.And what do we do after that,we just get angrier and continue to feed the flames that devour us.


Please allow me to get into the convo Marko and Wakanyungi are having - the one of Tycho and Mukiri is directionless, heading nowhere and frankly a waste of time.

Christianity, the one I know is not a universal soup religion.

It calls people to leave some beleifs, habits, associations, practises.

It calls people to come out of what it describes as confusion.

But nothing stops an individual from holding on to one or two or more things including the ones expressely forbidden.

Or dropping off one or two or more unpalatable issues.

You can pick and choose what you will follow and what you wont and still call yourself a christian.

No one is compelling anyone to worship a 'homophobic' diety, who is also a 'dictator' and a 'mass murderer'. Those who feel so strongly against it can as easily organize themselves and worship whoever they want how they want as easily as they can target the worshipers of the 'tyrant' diety.

All sorts of orientations and alignments can be added and integrated into christianity or subtracted as desired in the name of love, mercy, acceptance - it has been done and will continue being done.

But there will always be a few who wont buy into the additions and subtractions but they will not, nay, cannot stop the adders and subtracters from adding and subtracting.

In the end, there will be a most distinct separation, not universalism, unity, oneness, love, togetherness, acceptance, harmony.

1. those who keep the commandments of God (the law), and the faith of Jesus

2. and those who just dont (maybe they add and subtract as it suits their interpretations, inclinations etc).


Yes.

I say 'yes' to all these things. Even to a homophobic God. 'To every lash of the whip'.

Why? Must there be a reason? The reason is being. Human being. The world.

Is the world 'distinctive'? It can never be divided. The curtain had to be 'parted'. The Gospel is for the 'Jew' and 'Gentile'. All 'tribes'. The Church, is Catholic in essence.
i_am_saved
#57 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2013 1:11:57 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 6/12/2013
Posts: 69
tycho wrote:


Yes.

I say 'yes' to all these things. Even to a homophobic God. 'To every lash of the whip'.

Why? Must there be a reason? The reason is being. Human being. The world.

Is the world 'distinctive'? It can never be divided. The curtain had to be 'parted'. The Gospel is for the 'Jew' and 'Gentile'. All 'tribes'. The Church, is Catholic in essence.



You are saying 'Yes' because you want my sympathy to your lashings.

I accept your concession but not your 'Yes'.
Just for Mukiri.
tycho
#58 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2013 1:59:31 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
i_am_saved wrote:
tycho wrote:


Yes.

I say 'yes' to all these things. Even to a homophobic God. 'To every lash of the whip'.

Why? Must there be a reason? The reason is being. Human being. The world.

Is the world 'distinctive'? It can never be divided. The curtain had to be 'parted'. The Gospel is for the 'Jew' and 'Gentile'. All 'tribes'. The Church, is Catholic in essence.



You are saying 'Yes' because you want my sympathy to your lashings.

I accept your concession but not your 'Yes'.


Yes. To everything. Everyone. Every idea. Even to 'no sympathy'. Even to my anger. Lol.
Mtu Biz
#59 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2013 2:16:54 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/16/2007
Posts: 1,320
SMH

This is nothing new... people are free to make their own religion and have their own laws on human conduct, many already have.
Why keep bashing the God of the Bible when you are free to do your what ever seems right in your own eyes.
Are those who are opposed to homosexuality not to be tolerated as well? or how does tolerance work? I tolerate your behavior and you do not tolerate that i think your behavior is perverse?

In other news

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) published by the American Psychiatric Association -The Psychiatric Bible basically- In 1952 Listed Homosexuality as a Mental Disorder specifically a "sociopathic personality disturbance" Homosexuals were officially considered sociopaths.

Until may 1974 when
after a series of studies.... -(Nope)
after a breakthrough in reasearch...... (No)

Quote:
As described by Ronald Bayer, a psychiatrist and gay rights activist, specific protests by gay rights activists against the APA ( American Psychiatric Association) began in 1970 when the organization held its convention in San Francisco. The activists disrupted the conference by interrupting speakers and shouting down and ridiculing psychiatrists who viewed homosexuality as a mental disorder.

After a vote by the APA trustees in 1973, and confirmed by the wider APA membership in 1974, the diagnosis was replaced with the category of "sexual orientation disturbance".

- Wikipedia

The whole reason the APA removed homosexuality from the DSM as a Mental Disorder was purely on the basis of popular opinion not science.

Here we are in 2013 after decades of ingesting sitcoms, talk shows and movies that give a thumbs up to this behaviour - we can hardly tell our right hand from our left.

None of us has ever witnessed a jogoo chasing down another jogoo.. (If you have kindly share)

Are we to look to the animals for guidance on right conduct ?

Shame on you

The world has long refused to draw clear lines defining right and wrong.. anything goes now. So be it.

Lets tolerate each other and move on.
Sola Scriptura


i_am_saved
#60 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2013 2:56:48 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 6/12/2013
Posts: 69
I agree, Mtu biz.

But to be honest, I expect the environment to be increasingly hostile to those who hold on to the bible and bible alone.

On this gay front and on other fronts as well and on that score, those who have thrown aside the instructions, or bits of it will certainly, by and by be brought into the fold.

I think it is time for bible believing christians to beat a retreat back to the bible but not to regroup for counter attack as our charismatic friends would like, but to avoid being carried by the flow.

Those who want to counter-attack to bind up the demons responsible for gay tendencies better learn from the seven sons of Sceva.

The law is being made void .....


Just for Mukiri.
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