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Trousers for ladies in church
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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There's hardly a kind of dressing that can't be seductive. It's not once that I've noticed seduction in a 'buibui'.
And there's no 'imported' religion. Or all religion is imported. But by this expression we could be saying either we are not satisfied by our religious experience or life doesn't necessitate a convergence and sharing of culture and thought, 'universally'. Both options are 'unfortunate'.
One sees seduction because seduction has filled his head. Now we want a convinient scapegoat and once more we want to pull in the woman. We have not realized yet that it is 'our' self that is on the weighing scale.
Human sexuality is so powerful that it's so easy to cower in shame. But we must remember that we are talking about our power here. Our being like God.
Surely, it shouldn't be expected that institutions should enforce dressing codes. This just means that there's no freedom, implying no truth. This is idolatry, which trickles down to the deepest recesses of our minds.
The problem is 'mental slavery'.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 7/22/2013 Posts: 31
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Siringi wrote:Justice League wrote:@Mukiri, why the insult? I'm not an agent of the devil; I'm actually a Christian. Born again.
@mukiha, I've actually read the Bible and haven't found anything to back the practice. That's why I came to try and find an answer from wazua. Pisha hodi plug or socket? Bado  Worry not tis called karibu wazua Plug na socket ni nini?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/21/2013 Posts: 2,841 Location: Here
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Justice League wrote:Siringi wrote:Justice League wrote:@Mukiri, why the insult? I'm not an agent of the devil; I'm actually a Christian. Born again.
@mukiha, I've actually read the Bible and haven't found anything to back the practice. That's why I came to try and find an answer from wazua. Pisha hodi plug or socket? Bado Worry not tis called karibu wazua Plug na socket ni nini? Kwani kwako hakuna umeme? Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 6/12/2013 Posts: 69
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CLK wrote:Ante_Christa wrote:CLK made reference to Seventh-day Adventists. Is there any Seventh-day Adventist here reading this? I would really love to make acquaintance with you and chat with you about other things and preferably not in this thread or necessarily about this topic - there is a lot to talk about. I will be exceedingly thrilled and honored to (virtually) meet you and even more thrilled to discuss with you. @Ante_Christa, I am not sure i can call myself a Seventh Day Adventist,maybe a rebel one, but yes born and bred in the confines of SDA, however went to catholic schools. Yeah the debate can be very interesting. Looking forward Alright! From today, I will be handling Ante_Christas' correspondences until further notice. I hope you will not mind if I use this handle. I am mighty pleased to meet you. Just for Mukiri.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 6/12/2013 Posts: 69
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CLK wrote:Tokyo wrote:Our forefathers were comfortable with minimal or no clothes. Promiscuity among other sexual evils were unheard of. The problem is imported religion More or else, imported religion plus imported culture while trying to keep the original culture. People forget except for the extremes, what Kenyans wear to the clubbing scene is normal day to day wear elsewhere, refer to my earlier post. For instance, the SDA do not allow/recognize rings during a wedding, however couples go ahead and exchange them at the reception for instance. A Seventh Day Adventist in Loma Linda (Place believed to be the origin of the SDA religion)will wear a trouser probably daily or even in church (not sure about at the pulpit)while at Maxwell in Nairobi, utapewa leso, my digz church, my mum wont let me out of the house with the trouser if she knew i was going to church. Now my beef starts when we want to live differently on one single day of the week and the rest of the times we reflect something else. christianity/religion is a way of life, day to day. Of what benefit is it or was difference does it make if last night i wore skimpily and led someone to lust and today morning am in a long robe at the pulpit?? Would like to know from those men in Samburu/turkana where women walk around with their boobs out, what happens?? Sex is being idolized, left right centre, up down , its all about sex and this is where the real problem lies, kwanza whoever allowed sex before marriage ndio alitupoteza..... You are right that beef should be with the individuals who are not keeping the teachings. I read and re-read what D32 is saying and I like it (what he is saying). He might be also be Adventist, if am not wrong. I am thrilled to read him too. For example, in dress, food and in all else, Christians are primarily supposed to honor their creator and then as a by-product unconverted persons can see the difference. God had earlier given his preference to dress and since He does not change, I will be hard pressed to insist his preference has since changed or that he has changed his mind. His preference concerned those who served in the temple, the priests, the Aarons of that day. Christians today insist they are a chosen generation a royal priesthood. Therefore, simply, His preference then still holds for them. If they take the title, they take the responsibility or else drop the responsibility and also the title. Just for Mukiri.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 6/12/2013 Posts: 69
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CLK wrote:Tokyo wrote:Our forefathers were comfortable with minimal or no clothes. Promiscuity among other sexual evils were unheard of. The problem is imported religion More or else, imported religion plus imported culture while trying to keep the original culture. People forget except for the extremes, what Kenyans wear to the clubbing scene is normal day to day wear elsewhere, refer to my earlier post. For instance, the SDA do not allow/recognize rings during a wedding, however couples go ahead and exchange them at the reception for instance. A Seventh Day Adventist in Loma Linda (Place believed to be the origin of the SDA religion)will wear a trouser probably daily or even in church (not sure about at the pulpit)while at Maxwell in Nairobi, utapewa leso, my digz church, my mum wont let me out of the house with the trouser if she knew i was going to church. Now my beef starts when we want to live differently on one single day of the week and the rest of the times we reflect something else. christianity/religion is a way of life, day to day. Of what benefit is it or was difference does it make if last night i wore skimpily and led someone to lust and today morning am in a long robe at the pulpit?? Would like to know from those men in Samburu/turkana where women walk around with their boobs out, what happens?? Sex is being idolized, left right centre, up down , its all about sex and this is where the real problem lies, kwanza whoever allowed sex before marriage ndio alitupoteza..... Sorry I had to break my post for readability. What is done at Maxwell is neither strange nor unreasonable. They are, in the first instance, merely protecting themselves; I want to believe it has got nothing to do with making the offending person feel inferior about her apparel. If THAT God they are worshipping were to visibly appear there and then, in his justice the people there would pay - individually - for their actions AND inactions. In His mercy he doesnt visibly appear - yet. This does not give license or leeway to assume his preference had since changed and mellowed with time. This is the mistake mordern christians like Mukiri make, that since justice is not visibly swift as in days of old, then justice is just a tall-tale which mercy has overriden. Jusitice and mercy met at the cross and I have been telling christians that since they are too crucified with Christ, then they should all meet there, they, Christ and the law at the cross. A handful of verses cannot be read to knock against other verses and if it appears they are in contradiction the problem is with the reader's interpretation and not the verses. By the way, if Maxwell is your church, hold on with both hands. As for the samburu men and women and our great great great great grandfathers and grandmothers, I say that accountability begins with awareness. If someone is aware and for some reason willfully disregards, that does not free you and me from the obligations so that we cite that person as precedence. That approach may work in Mutungas' courts. Only. Just for Mukiri.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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Methinks as long as the traoza doesnt reveal the camel toe its okay to go! Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/21/2008 Posts: 2,490
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 7/12/2012 Posts: 84
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Rankaz13 wrote:Justice League wrote:Siringi wrote:Justice League wrote:@Mukiri, why the insult? I'm not an agent of the devil; I'm actually a Christian. Born again.
@mukiha, I've actually read the Bible and haven't found anything to back the practice. That's why I came to try and find an answer from wazua. Pisha hodi plug or socket? Bado Worry not tis called karibu wazua Plug na socket ni nini? Kwani kwako hakuna umeme? 
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/19/2012 Posts: 552
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chepkel wrote:washiku wrote:By the way av u ever seen a naked donkey? Cow? Crocodile? Well, they all don't wear clothes but nobody really pays attention....think why.... I think a forbidden fruit was eaten. People have started noticing...ask people from Kiambu, Mombasa and Nyeri @Washiku, agreed. Look at our Turkana women, out there in lodwar or lokichar, usually their top is bare and no one seems to notice the exposed breasts. Guess its all in the mind, we see what we want to see. Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.... Leo Buscaglia
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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rryyzz wrote:chepkel wrote:washiku wrote:By the way av u ever seen a naked donkey? Cow? Crocodile? Well, they all don't wear clothes but nobody really pays attention....think why.... I think a forbidden fruit was eaten. People have started noticing...ask people from Kiambu, Mombasa and Nyeri @Washiku, agreed. Look at our Turkana women, out there in lodwar or lokichar, usually their top is bare and no one seems to notice the exposed breasts. Guess its all in the mind, we see what we want to see. Even a blind Orangutan wont be turned ON by some loosely hanging sun-dried dairies. I dont blame the Turkana/Lodwar men.  Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 7/22/2013 Posts: 31
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Impunity wrote:rryyzz wrote:chepkel wrote:washiku wrote:By the way av u ever seen a naked donkey? Cow? Crocodile? Well, they all don't wear clothes but nobody really pays attention....think why.... I think a forbidden fruit was eaten. People have started noticing...ask people from Kiambu, Mombasa and Nyeri @Washiku, agreed. Look at our Turkana women, out there in lodwar or lokichar, usually their top is bare and no one seems to notice the exposed breasts. Guess its all in the mind, we see what we want to see. Even a blind Orangutan wont be turned ON by some loosely hanging sun-dried dairies. I dont blame the Turkana/Lodwar men. Dude, this is not a very respectful way to speak about women.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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Justice League wrote:Impunity wrote:rryyzz wrote:chepkel wrote:washiku wrote:By the way av u ever seen a naked donkey? Cow? Crocodile? Well, they all don't wear clothes but nobody really pays attention....think why.... I think a forbidden fruit was eaten. People have started noticing...ask people from Kiambu, Mombasa and Nyeri @Washiku, agreed. Look at our Turkana women, out there in lodwar or lokichar, usually their top is bare and no one seems to notice the exposed breasts. Guess its all in the mind, we see what we want to see. Even a blind Orangutan wont be turned ON by some loosely hanging sun-dried dairies. I dont blame the Turkana/Lodwar men. Dude, this is not a very respectful way to speak about women. I have googled, u too can google.  Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/24/2012 Posts: 331 Location: Vantage point
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D32 wrote:Drobos fly wrote:Others used jewellery to worship idols. (Exodus 32:1-4) And here we have God beautifying people:- Ezekiel 16:1-14 So attempting to make yourself look better isn't a sin, it is where your going with it that leads to sin. Example if you dress to go to party in a club, your probably looking at something skimpy. If you dress with the knowledge that you are going to get in touch with your maker then you shall not dress to lure or seduce. Romans 14:1-23 instructs us how we should live with our differences and not judge and condemn others as some are in the habit of doing. So you should not judge period! That is God's jurisdiction. Deuteronomy 22:5 clearly states that a woman shouldn't wear that which pertains to a man. My question is are all trousers in the whole universe designed for men????? Aren't there decent ones that women use when going for job interviews and thereby work?????? I think people just like to be unnecessarily controversial. If you have a conscious that has not been killed by decayed morals you will immediately be sensitive to what is acceptable in the light of God. kyt wrote:
then @alustaadh it can only mean one two things either the bible let stuff being demonic or people let down the bars/standards of holiness. which do you think happened?
Considering jewellery in the past, they were used to worship God. (Exodus 35:20-22) Supposing someone shows up in church with some revealing clothing, and this person did that ignorantly, the person did not know any better, will the church members be looking at the person strangely, not talk to the person? That individual will need to be accepted the way the person is, then in meekness, teach the person what is right. If that person was not accepted, then that person was judged, so the counsel is to judge not. Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. God uses the law to perfom judgement, that is why the law is the standard of all righteousness. Unrighteousness is breaking the law = sin. 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Ezekiel 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Isaiah 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
I believe that you can find the answer to your question about trousers for women in the quoted text below. Quote:"It's not necessarily the trousers, it could be the top, the skirt, the dress etc... and because in many cases, the trousers cause men to lust, it is therefore said, no wearing trousers.
But this does not mean that there are no trousers, tops, skirts, dresses etc... which are not revealing, that are modest, but for the sake of everyone, it would not hurt to going to church not wearing trousers - since there's already something like a stigma around it.
The underlining issue here is modesty. A modestly dressed woman will not cause men to lust. A modestly dressed woman will not be a temptation to men, thus the Bible does not have to mention trousers, instead the Bible presents principles which apply, irrespective of the fashions & trends of the day and age." The point couldn't have come out better, kudos! Rankaz13 wrote:Justice League wrote:Siringi wrote:Justice League wrote:@Mukiri, why the insult? I'm not an agent of the devil; I'm actually a Christian. Born again.
@mukiha, I've actually read the Bible and haven't found anything to back the practice. That's why I came to try and find an answer from wazua. Pisha hodi plug or socket? Bado Worry not tis called karibu wazua Plug na socket ni nini? Kwani kwako hakuna umeme? In this age most have been brought up by the tv and tend to mimic their surroundings, like the way you can hang out with someone and sort of sound like them to others who know them, we are in a digital age where we have alot of digital "friends" (I-pods, I-phones, I-apples and various I-tems) all which reproduce in the factory. Now when mimicing happens umeme inapotea because they've gone digital all the way
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 846
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i_am_saved wrote:CLK wrote:Ante_Christa wrote:CLK made reference to Seventh-day Adventists. Is there any Seventh-day Adventist here reading this? I would really love to make acquaintance with you and chat with you about other things and preferably not in this thread or necessarily about this topic - there is a lot to talk about. I will be exceedingly thrilled and honored to (virtually) meet you and even more thrilled to discuss with you. @Ante_Christa, I am not sure i can call myself a Seventh Day Adventist,maybe a rebel one, but yes born and bred in the confines of SDA, however went to catholic schools. Yeah the debate can be very interesting. Looking forward Alright! From today, I will be handling Ante_Christas' correspondences until further notice. I hope you will not mind if I use this handle. I am mighty pleased to meet you. so i_am_saved=Ante_Christas? Weird choice of names..
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 6/12/2013 Posts: 69
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CLK wrote:[quote=i_am_saved]
so i_am_saved=Ante_Christas?
Weird choice of names..
Yes. Previously annti_christi → ante_christa → i_am_saved. I really dont like any of them and it has got nothing to do with being banned or something like that. i_am_saved was meant for mukiri and I dislike it the most. It will soon also go. Just for Mukiri.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 846
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i_am_saved wrote:CLK wrote:[quote=i_am_saved]
so i_am_saved=Ante_Christas?
Weird choice of names..
Yes. Previously annti_christi → ante_christa → i_am_saved. I really dont like any of them and it has got nothing to do with being banned or something like that. i_am_saved was meant for mukiri and I dislike it the most. It will soon also go. Okay, the debate starts, you go first..
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 6/12/2013 Posts: 69
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CLK wrote:
Okay, the debate starts, you go first..
CLK, You say you call yourself a rebel Adventist. Why are you rebelling? What are you rebelling against? Is the matter of trousers involved? Just for Mukiri.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 846
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i_am_saved wrote:CLK wrote:
Okay, the debate starts, you go first..
CLK, You say you call yourself a rebel Adventist. Why are you rebelling? What are you rebelling against? Is the matter of trousers involved? So the debate was about me not the whole Adventist faith. I disagree with a couple of things that are in the church manual, and also the reference to an individual's interpretation of the bible and preaching it case in point Ellen G. White's books. Then they have an holier than though attitude, the elders, deacons/esses, i believe in God being a forgiving God, they preach this and do not practice it. I know kitambo they would not baptize you if your parents were not 'in the church' yet everyone was/is supposed to carry their own cross. They frown upon so many things that are actually a reality in the world today, lets just say they are in denial. The other day i was surprised that they could allow a 'single mother' to preach to the church, this is a good sign, a step in a better direction. I love wearing trousers, could count the number of dresses/skirts i owned back in campus, however i would not argue about wearing them to church, i respect this bit in the sense that we are Africans and trousers are from the west. That said, i believe in love and respect, this is the ultimate commandment, if we loved our neighbours as the bible tells us, all the evil will not exist, good or bad is based on love or hate, all else are details. The Adventist church condemns alcohol, caffein etc, i am yet to figure out where these came from really.. I could go on and on, i wanted to be a nun kitambo, my folks refused to sign on the dotted line... I will say am a rebel because i do not follow the church manual to the letter as required of me
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 846
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Ohh, and i love the bible teachings for the kids, adventurous, Kindergarten and Pathfinder, those teachings are my piller today and with all the above issues i have, i constantly strive and pray to guide my children within this christian foundation. Ohh and the hatred for Sunday churchgoers, moreso Catholics, this debate pisses me off since my interpretation of the bible is that God rested on the 7th day it does not specify which one, now i know many will say Jesus rested on Saturday, however i differ since the earlier prophecies indicated that he will resurrect on the 3rd day, so had they crucified him on Thursday or whichever day, this will have changed..
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