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Trousers for ladies in church
sitaki.kujulikana
#21 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:07:19 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
Mukiri wrote:
Ngogoyo wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
This could be another agent of the devil! Whom are you to judge others... and who are others to judge you? Go to church to pray, not to look at what others are doing


@mukiri its all about good practices, morals and respect. Its a house of God for heavens sake!! not your MWK cubicle.

The Good book talks about driving others to sin......

i support it fully

Good practices ndio nini sasa? Love supersedes everything. Was Jesus driven to sin when a prostitute washed His feet? I wonder what 'good practises' you would have quoted there. In the same measure, will you be led to sin when your wife starts acting up?

Focus on God my brother.

true, the focus should be on God. Hizo zingine ni porojo, different cultures and upbringing shape people differently
Ante_Christa
#22 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:22:47 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/31/2013
Posts: 109
Justice League, you have done a huge injustice by choosing a divisive yet an easy topic to discuss because unfortunately division usually tends along tertiary lines (social-strata, personal preferences/interpretations etc) and this leads to generation of more heat than light. See, you have already been called devil agent. lol..... serves you right.

Never do it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is one of the few topics even nominal christians, & who have their doctrines upside down & passers-by become teachers - both pro and anti, a mish mash I am reluctant to get into.

Good luck.





Bigchick
#23 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:55:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/8/2013
Posts: 4,068
Location: At Large.
Mimi kisomo yangu ya biblia ni limited.

However, it is my view that some dressing is a distraction na ina kosheza heshima.
Between me and my gal friends lets wear as we go to party, chama, shamba if you wish etc.Lakini kanisani, naomba tuvae ki heshima.Beautiful kitenge (not Manduli style), long maxi dresses and skirts and if it has to be a trouser then have a dress top as a compliment not a tumbo cut.

You will be comfortable yourself and so are your fellow worshipers.

When not in church its ok but be conscious of the fitting.Too tight makes even you the wearer uncomfortable.Too loose gives you a funny fitting.
Love is beautiful and so are those who share it.With Love, Marriage is an amazing event in ones life time, the foundation of joy, happiness and success.
Meduza
#24 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:11:26 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/7/2013
Posts: 447
Location: Nairobi
Justice League wrote:
Many churches enforce a strict SUNDAY dress code for ladies who are ministries such as choir, ushering etc. Even the lady preachers are not spared; most will be told beforehand that trousers on the pulpit are a complete no-no.

What's interesting is that the same rule doesn't seem to during the week.

Is this really based on the Bible? Could it be that we have imposed aspects of our culture in our churches?


I find these kind of rules more of judgmental. Its like God looks at the outlook rather than heart....so what is wrong with women in trousers in church? The bible talks nothing about that...I only remember about women covering their heads...but then that's a different culture altogether(Jews and Arabs). If we go with culture, in the African/Kenyan aspect...look for those picture of the famous group that used to dance for Kenyatta(nya-Kinyua)...that might give you an idea of how Africans used to dress...
You cant win, unless you first begin....
washiku
#25 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:36:05 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
Somebody help me understand this verse: Deutronomy 22:5

Quote:
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God
washiku
#26 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:39:13 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
Quote:
Deuteronomy 22:5 deals with the issue of men dressing in women’s clothing and vice versa. In this passage God commands that a woman is not to wear that which pertains to a man and a man is not to wear that which pertains to a woman, for all that do so are an “abomination.” The Hebrew word translated “abomination” means "a disgusting thing, abominable, in the ritual sense (of unclean food, idols, mixed marriages), in the ethical sense of wickedness." Therefore, this is not simply God addressing the fact that a woman might put on a man’s garment or vice versa. Also, this is not a command that a woman should not wear pants/slacks as some use this passage to teach. The meaning here is that this “cross-dressing” is done in order to deceive, or to present oneself as something that he/she is not. In other words, this speaks to a woman changing her dress and appearance so as to appear to be a man and a man changing his dress and appearance so as to appear to be a woman. This is the definition of a cross-dresser or a transvestite.

We can also reason that the dynamic behind this is the leaving of what is natural and taking on that which is in God’s Word called unnatural (Romans 1:24-27). Paul tells the Corinthian church that the way a person wears their hair is a demonstration of rebellion against God’s order, and therefore a woman who cuts her hair to appear as a man or a man who wears his hair long to appear as a woman brings shame to them (1 Corinthians 11:3-15). The issue here is the motive and attitude of the heart that is evidenced in the choice to rebel against God’s standard for obedience.

These are principles we can use to reason an application. Whatever the prevailing custom, men and women should wear gender-appropriate clothing, dressing decently and in order (1 Corinthians 14:40). To apply the principles, the Bible calls cross-dressing or transvestitism a choice that is a demonstration of unbelief and rebellion against God and His order.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions....tism.html#ixzz2ZsbcDlln
Sansa
#27 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:17:20 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 344
Bigchick wrote:
Mimi kisomo yangu ya biblia ni limited.

However, it is my view that some dressing is a distraction na ina kosheza heshima.
Between me and my gal friends lets wear as we go to party, chama, shamba if you wish etc.Lakini kanisani, naomba tuvae ki heshima.Beautiful kitenge (not Manduli style), long maxi dresses and skirts and if it has to be a trouser then have a dress top as a compliment not a tumbo cut.

You will be comfortable yourself and so are your fellow worshipers.

When not in church its ok but be conscious of the fitting.Too tight makes even you the wearer uncomfortable.Too loose gives you a funny fitting.


And soon you will find yourself in garb that resembles a chador!
kyt
#28 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:52:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
these so callef Christians should very confused of their religion, they dont even know how to dress! !! how can they then convince anyone they are spiritual ig the basics inawashinda? nkt!
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
CLK
#29 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:57:53 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 846
.
Lolest!
#30 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 8:22:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
I prefer women wearing skirts-decent skirts. Not handkerchief size minis with slits leaving huge chunks of flesh on display. Wonder why women wear this. They put many men to the test...probably causing accidents. But I find no part of scripture that is against wearing trousers for women. Trousers are not meant for men only. A man cannot wear a woman's trouser and vice versa. Also, trous are not necessarily inapproproiate dressing. Infact, they tend to be better concealers!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
tycho
#31 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 8:49:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
CLK wrote:
Justice League wrote:
Many churches enforce a strict SUNDAY dress code for ladies who are ministries such as choir, ushering etc. Even the lady preachers are not spared; most will be told beforehand that trousers on the pulpit are a complete no-no.

What's interesting is that the same rule doesn't seem to during the week.

Is this really based on the Bible? Could it be that we have imposed aspects of our culture in our churches?


I believe Adam and Eve used to walk around naked until they ate the forbidden fruit, that's when they started feeling ashamed of their nakedness. ideally we could all be walking naked and nothing would happen.
I can be collected....


Interestingly, clothes conceal by revealing.

St. Augustine comes to mind with his, 'Love God and do what you please'. Then there's nothing to conceal, and one is naked and free of guilt.
kysse
#32 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 9:22:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/17/2013
Posts: 4,693
Location: Earth
Mukiri wrote:
This could be another agent of the devil! Whom are you to judge others... and who are others to judge you? Go to church to pray, not to look at what others are doing


@ Mukiri,
Why do you like calling people agents of the devil when you know nothing about their lives?
I find it harsh esp coming from a pastor.





maka
#33 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 9:33:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
Lets compare notes in heaven...hope I will find you there
possunt quia posse videntur
kysse
#34 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 9:40:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/17/2013
Posts: 4,693
Location: Earth
washiku wrote:
Somebody help me understand this verse: Deutronomy 22:5

Quote:
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God


We no longer live under the law but under the dispensation of Grace.
Those who live by the law shall be judged by the law.

Who designed the clothes that we wear? Who decided that a man must wear a trouser and a woman dress?
What did people in days of old wear? robes? weren't they feminine?

If a designer cuts out a lady's trouser? how does it become a man's?
The only thing I would raise a storm about is inner.
Man should be more concerned about the soul because what we see on the outside is a reflection of the inner person.
Lolest!
#35 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 10:06:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
@essyk, my point xactly!! Culture defines a woman/man's wear. Men shouldnt wear those light material trous for women.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
washiku
#36 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 10:11:53 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
By the way av u ever seen a naked donkey? Cow? Crocodile? Well, they all don't wear clothes but nobody really pays attention....think why....
Justice League
#37 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 10:33:36 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 7/22/2013
Posts: 31
kysse wrote:
washiku wrote:
Somebody help me understand this verse: Deutronomy 22:5

Quote:
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God


We no longer live under the law but under the dispensation of Grace.
Those who live by the law shall be judged by the law.

Who designed the clothes that we wear? Who decided that a man must wear a trouser and a woman dress?
What did people in days of old wear? robes? weren't they feminine?

If a designer cuts out a lady's trouser? how does it become a man's?
The only thing I would raise a storm about is inner.
Man should be more concerned about the soul because what we see on the outside is a reflection of the inner person.


You have captured my thoughts exactly. Having been in church ministry for over a decade, I've been really struggling with this particular rule. Wherever I go, I hear the same mantra repeated: no trousers for the ladies on the pulpit on Sunday. I feel that it has become a legalism and is not based on any Bible teaching. What bothers me even more is that nobody has an issue with ladies wearing trousers on any other day of the week.

Those who quote from Deuteronomy chapter 22 fail to understand that ladies trousers are designed for ladies and not men. I can bet that trousers did not exist in Moses' time so that scripture couldn't have been about the longis.

I'm with kysse when he says that we no longer live under the law. Colossians 2:6-23 addresses the issues regarding legalisms in church and conludes by saying: 'these rules provide no help in conquering a person's evil desires' (New Living Translation, 2nd ed).

From the responses I've received, it's clear to me that there's nothing wrong with wearing them, not even on Sunday.

The issue for me is now settled and I'm at peace.

P.S. @maka, I hope so too.
kysse
#38 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2013 10:52:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/17/2013
Posts: 4,693
Location: Earth
Justice League wrote:


You have captured my thoughts exactly. Having been in church ministry for over a decade, I've been really struggling with this particular rule. Wherever I go, I hear the same mantra repeated: no trousers for the ladies on the pulpit on Sunday. I feel that it has become a legalism and is not based on any Bible teaching. What bothers me even more is that nobody has an issue with ladies wearing trousers on any other day of the week.

Those who quote from Deuteronomy chapter 22 fail to understand that ladies trousers are designed for ladies and not men. I can bet that trousers did not exist in Moses' time so that scripture couldn't have been about the longis.

I'm with kysse when he says that we no longer live under the law. Colossians 2:6-23 addresses the issues regarding legalisms in church and conludes by saying: 'these rules provide no help in conquering a person's evil desires' (New Living Translation, 2nd ed).

From the responses I've received, it's clear to me that there's nothing wrong with wearing them, not even on Sunday.

The issue for me is now settled and I'm at peace.

P.S. @maka, I hope so too.


Ok let me try to be more clear.

Fast forward to Grace period-

Romans 14:1-23
Quote:
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. .


Romans 14:13
Quote:
decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.


-It must have been Paul who said'To the romans I became a roman that I may win the romans.He did not want his behaviour/beliefs/opinions to stumble others and cause them not to accept christ.
So what about us?
Learn/understand the congregation and their attitude towards things including dressing before bombarding them with scripture lest you cause them to stumble.
Do they believe in gowns? wear a gown and preach christ to them.
Do they wear jeans? like the bike riders? do the same cz they will listen,since you identify with them.
If they don't believe in women and trousers please DO NOT WEAR because you have become a stumbling block.
The gospel isn't wrapped up in dressing, but the dressing will determine if that gospel will be preached or not.

Mukiri
#39 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2013 12:21:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
kysse wrote:
Justice League wrote:


You have captured my thoughts exactly. Having been in church ministry for over a decade, I've been really struggling with this particular rule. Wherever I go, I hear the same mantra repeated: no trousers for the ladies on the pulpit on Sunday. I feel that it has become a legalism and is not based on any Bible teaching. What bothers me even more is that nobody has an issue with ladies wearing trousers on any other day of the week.

Those who quote from Deuteronomy chapter 22 fail to understand that ladies trousers are designed for ladies and not men. I can bet that trousers did not exist in Moses' time so that scripture couldn't have been about the longis.

I'm with kysse when he says that we no longer live under the law. Colossians 2:6-23 addresses the issues regarding legalisms in church and conludes by saying: 'these rules provide no help in conquering a person's evil desires' (New Living Translation, 2nd ed).

From the responses I've received, it's clear to me that there's nothing wrong with wearing them, not even on Sunday.

The issue for me is now settled and I'm at peace.

P.S. @maka, I hope so too.


Ok let me try to be more clear.

Fast forward to Grace period-

Romans 14:1-23
Quote:
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. .


Romans 14:13
Quote:
decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.


-It must have been Paul who said'To the romans I became a roman that I may win the romans.He did not want his behaviour/beliefs/opinions to stumble others and cause them not to accept christ.
So what about us?
Learn/understand the congregation and their attitude towards things including dressing before bombarding them with scripture lest you cause them to stumble.
Do they believe in gowns? wear a gown and preach christ to them.
Do they wear jeans? like the bike riders? do the same cz they will listen,since you identify with them.
If they don't believe in women and trousers please DO NOT WEAR because you have become a stumbling block.
The gospel isn't wrapped up in dressing, but the dressing will determine if that gospel will be preached or not.


Applause Applause Applause I'm impressedsmile

Proverbs 19:21
murchr
#40 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2013 5:37:48 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Deuteronomy 22:5 wrote:
“A woman shall not wear a man’s garment, nor shall a man put on a woman’s cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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