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THE GOSPEL - Setting the record straight.
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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Mtu Biz wrote:Mukiri wrote:Justice League wrote:Mtu Biz, I am fascinated by what you've quoted from Conrad's website. I think this begins to explain why we do many of the things that way in our churches.
I've always struggled with praying at the top of my voice and many people say that I'm not Chrisitan enough if I don't shout in prayer.
Also, jumping up and down while praying makes me uncomfortable. Now I see the association with our traditional beliefs. Boss, ask for help from the Holy Spirit. Please don't be comfortable in your 'silent' prayers. Ask for fervency. And be careful from whom you receive advice from(even me). From all you know, the devil and his agents can disguise himself/themselves and post in wazua, to lead people astray... Ask also for the gift of discernment. Jesus the Christ on the subject of prayer said thus. Matthew 6:5-15 Quote:5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. @Justice league Its your call. I'm with you on this one.. However, don't judge people on how they pray, nor allow them to judge you.. as for the Holy Spirit helping us in prayer Romans 8:26-27. Hebrews 5:7? Its not how you pray that matters, its your heart as you pray.. Your intention/purpose Matthew 21:22 Also read the parable of the persistent friend.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/31/2013 Posts: 109
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Mtu Biz wrote:Quote:Please don't be comfortable in your 'silent' prayers. Ask for fervency Seriously ? To what end ? By that statement, Mukiri has made a subtle disparaging allusion to prayers which no ear should hear except of our Father in Heaven. Sigh. The bible is not really that hard to understand. Mukiri must be of the opinion that it is too hard to understand by oneself, let alone read. I would have at least imagined Mukiri would tell Justice League to READ it. To cap it, he does not even specify from whom Justice League should ask for fervency, help and gifts from. After all, who needs a "Thus says the Lord" when a (holy) spirit is within easy reach to give 'discernment'? This experiential religion will really lead many people to ruin.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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@ Mukiri Fervency is not an external show of anything. Consider this definition. Quote:Fer·ven·cy [fur-vuhn-see] Show IPA
noun
warmth or intensity of feeling; ardor; zeal; fervor. Consider the prayer of Hannah in 1 Samuel 2 Quote:10 In her deep anguish Hannah prayed to the Lord, weeping bitterly. 11 And she made a vow, saying, “Lord Almighty, if you will only look on your servant’s misery and remember me, and not forget your servant but give her a son, then I will give him to the Lord for all the days of his life, and no razor will ever be used on his head.”
12 As she kept on praying to the Lord, Eli observed her mouth. 13 Hannah was praying in her heart, and her lips were moving but her voice was not heard. Eli thought she was drunk 14 and said to her, “How long are you going to stay drunk? Put away your wine.”
15 “Not so, my lord,” Hannah replied, “I am a woman who is deeply troubled. I have not been drinking wine or beer; I was pouring out my soul to the Lord. 16 Do not take your servant for a wicked woman; I have been praying here out of my great anguish and grief.” Fervent Prayer is not shouting and jumping.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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James 5:16 (KJV) Quote:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. So where is fervent equal to loud or anything close to that here? A fervent prayer doesn't even have to be audible. Fervency is the posture of your heart not decibel levels.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/31/2013 Posts: 109
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Maybe fervent has been taken to rhyme with fever, so that if one is not literally shaking from it then it is not fervent.
I think it is the pastors who will have much to answer for in that day for misleading people, not that the misled will be excused.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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Mtu Biz wrote:@ Mukiri Fervency is not an external show of anything. Consider this definition. Quote:Fer·ven·cy [fur-vuhn-see] Show IPA
noun
warmth or intensity of feeling; ardor; zeal; fervor. Consider the prayer of Hannah in 1 Samuel 2 Quote:10 In her deep anguish Hannah prayed to the Lord, weeping bitterly. 11 And she made a vow, saying, “Lord Almighty, if you will only look on your servant’s misery and remember me, and not forget your servant but give her a son, then I will give him to the Lord for all the days of his life, and no razor will ever be used on his head.”
12 As she kept on praying to the Lord, Eli observed her mouth. 13 Hannah was praying in her heart, and her lips were moving but her voice was not heard. Eli thought she was drunk 14 and said to her, “How long are you going to stay drunk? Put away your wine.”
15 “Not so, my lord,” Hannah replied, “I am a woman who is deeply troubled. I have not been drinking wine or beer; I was pouring out my soul to the Lord. 16 Do not take your servant for a wicked woman; I have been praying here out of my great anguish and grief.” Fervent Prayer is not shouting and jumping. I agree..
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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Mukiri wrote:Mtu Biz wrote:@ Mukiri Fervency is not an external show of anything. Consider this definition. Quote:Fer·ven·cy [fur-vuhn-see] Show IPA
noun
warmth or intensity of feeling; ardor; zeal; fervor. Consider the prayer of Hannah in 1 Samuel 2 Quote:10 In her deep anguish Hannah prayed to the Lord, weeping bitterly. 11 And she made a vow, saying, “Lord Almighty, if you will only look on your servant’s misery and remember me, and not forget your servant but give her a son, then I will give him to the Lord for all the days of his life, and no razor will ever be used on his head.”
12 As she kept on praying to the Lord, Eli observed her mouth. 13 Hannah was praying in her heart, and her lips were moving but her voice was not heard. Eli thought she was drunk 14 and said to her, “How long are you going to stay drunk? Put away your wine.”
15 “Not so, my lord,” Hannah replied, “I am a woman who is deeply troubled. I have not been drinking wine or beer; I was pouring out my soul to the Lord. 16 Do not take your servant for a wicked woman; I have been praying here out of my great anguish and grief.” Fervent Prayer is not shouting and jumping. I agree.. Good! Now go and look at scripture against the rest of your beliefs and practices and see if "These things be true" like the Bereans.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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...and much as I agree(its no competition after-all. There are no prizes), fervency ALSO doesn't mean silent prayers. Its why I advice you to seek help and guidance from the Holy Spirit. Do not rely on your own understanding
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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Mukiri wrote:...and much as I agree(its no competition after-all. There are no prizes), fervency doesn't mean silent prayers. Its why I advice you to seek help and guidance from the Holy Spirit. Do not rely on your own understanding @Mukiri We dont have to agree. Dont say i agree when you are clearly not in agreement. Again please explain how i would go about seeking help and guidance from the Holy Spirit ? Are you aware that the Scriptures are the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit? Quote:2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. How do you suggest i go about getting this guidance from the Holy Spirit apart from scripture?
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