What you are saying is conventionally sensible. But is based on some false premises like going beyond the fence is misanthropy. Misanthropy is the 'inhumane treatment' of 'humanity.' Nothing in my statement suggests that. Again, misanthropy is not a premise in itself; it is a finality.

You seem to forget the essence of God's action in history is one of going beyond the fence.

Now, this is a claim. What is the fence here? My hunch is that you are are using the standards of man. Are you aware of the standards used by the gods?

That aside, if relations within the fence are the ideal, why does the individual feel alienated?

It is not a perfect world. Some fit in, others don't. The reasons cannot be exhausted. Nothing in 'history' suggest that it was perfect.

The fence is alienating and dehumanizing. Going beyond it is embracing the other. It is 'society'.

In your own "measurements" the fence is alienating and dehumanizing. Depends on what you want to focus on. You seek perfection. Big question is: are you using perfect means? I don't think so. Once that is not possible, disillusionment sets in. And it becomes a "useless" world to you because everything is not working in tandem (as you might wish in your utopian world).

naona marudurudu.

There are stories and autobiographic accounts of people dying, 'transcending' the boundary, going to hell then heaven meeting Jesus and so on then coming back to tell us how it went.

Have you believed them? I hope not. If not, why? Yet they have talked of meeting God, Jesus and the angels? Isnt that good and right?

Just because God is mentioned somewhere in it does not make it kosher.

kysse, just be very discriminative, make fine distinctions there are subtle twists to be spotted.

I will let my claims about misanthropy wait and tackle your other points.

What's the fence; and whose standards am I using? The fence, is the construction of my ego.

Good. A construction of your own ego. I will read this sentence along with your last statement. What makes you think that going beyond the fence is the best thing? Why should "we" strive to go beyond the fence? Will we enjoy the same privileges you purport to enjoy? Is it the only thing that matters in life?
The standards are both Man's and God's. The two must always go together. And the ultimate act is the reconciliation of these standards. I am aware of God's standards. Lol.

I will not even tackle the standards.

What does living in an 'imperfect world' mean? It means that you look at the world and you see that it's not 'good'. You even point out the fact of 'subjectivity'. So the question is, do I see the world as 'good'? I do. How? By going beyond the 'fence'.

A 'perfect' way to beyond the fence exists. It is the way of the cross.

Why settle for mere 'more illuminating' when you can have 'most illuminating'?

How?

By just asking me what I 'really' say, instead of wondering and guessing about what I 'seem' to say.

I am saying, Be careful, you have the ability to process what is put here and make your own conclusion on the matter at hand.

Because it is better to measure 10 times and cut once.

Than measure once and cut 10 times.

Those who have interrogated what I have said will notice I have not mentioned one party over the other.

Add to what InnovateGuy is saying.

Back to the question of going beyond the fence, I will tackle the motivation. It's good that you brought up the word ego. According to Freud's psychoanalytic theory, personality has three components: ego, the id and superego. The ego component expresses rationality. It tries to make sense of the id component which is in charge of desires and wants. Your desire to go beyond the fence is to achieve satisfaction. Is the satisfaction a good thing? Yes it is. If fulfills the wishes of your superego. In this case, your superego is telling that going beyond the fence is the best thing. Well, no qualms about that. The big question is: is your definition of the fence universal? I don't think so. Therefore, the real driving force behind your thoughts is not achieve satisfaction. It is an attempt to be a cut above the rest. As a consequence, you seek to dominate and convince us that we need to go beyond the fence. We will be super-humans. Well, nothing is entirely wrong with that. But there's a problem, isn't the wholesome acceptance of other people's ideas without carrying out a background check on how it fits in well with our wishes slavery? Slavery that you wish to end!

zero is an integer just as 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and 9.

It represents something unique just as the other integers; it is not valueless or ........... nothing.

zero has value; a computer stores data in binary digits of 1 and 0.

So what was your question about zero again?

Am I discombobulating?

Back to the question of going beyond the fence, I will tackle the motivation. It's good that you brought up the word ego. According to Freud's psychoanalytic theory, personality has three components: ego, the id and superego. The ego component expresses rationality. It tries to make sense of the id component which is in charge of desires and wants. Your desire to go beyond the fence is to achieve satisfaction. Is the satisfaction a good thing? Yes it is. If fulfills the wishes of your superego. In this case, your superego is telling that going beyond the fence is the best thing. Well, no qualms about that. The big question is: is your definition of the fence universal? I don't think so. Therefore, the real driving force behind your thoughts is not achieve satisfaction. It is an attempt to be a cut above the rest. As a consequence, you seek to dominate and convince us that we need to go beyond the fence. We will be super-humans. Well, nothing is entirely wrong with that. But there's a problem, isn't the wholesome acceptance of other people's ideas without carrying out a background check on how it fits in well with our wishes slavery? Slavery that you wish to end!