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Konza City. Whats the progress so far?
murchr
#41 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 4:41:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
a4architect.com wrote:
Land price is kes 200m per acre in Bangalore Electronic city.

http://pricetrends.makaa...pf=1&pt=3&tm=12

Compare this to Konza at 2 to 4m per acre.

This means that major ICT players are not inhibited by high land price so they can also afford Upper Hill with 200 to 300 m per acre prices.


Excuse me sir but surely, isn't upperhill a disaster waiting to happen? Look at how blocks and blocks of building are mashrooming everywhere yet there's no expansion of roads etc i even wonder where the parking spaces will be - uhurupark?

2ndly, these companies arent interested in land..rather space is there space in upperhill that can house 20 companies with a potential of housing 200 people each? Am not seeing it
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
limanika
#42 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 5:11:07 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
Please wake up to the reality that some people will always argue in support of Konza,no need thus to waste time and bandwidth debating merits and demerits of Konza. The people I expect will always go to any lengths to defend Konza are:
• People who have bought land near Konza for speculation purposes
• People who think they have an opportunity to reap big from construction / planning contracts.
Note that those countries that have developed similar cities (India, S. Africa, US, etc.) were not in our league when they developed their plans. None of them exports unprocessed raw materials for instance. All of them have reasonably well developed infrastructure – road, rail, energy. You cannot ‘copy’ a city in India and ‘paste’ in Ukambani. We need to sort out the basics first.
murchr
#43 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 5:18:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
limanika wrote:
Please wake up to the reality that some people will always argue in support of Konza,no need thus to waste time and bandwidth debating merits and demerits of Konza. The people I expect will always go to any lengths to defend Konza are:
• People who have bought land near Konza for speculation purposes
• People who think they have an opportunity to reap big from construction / planning contracts.
Note that those countries that have developed similar cities (India, S. Africa, US, etc.) were not in our league when they developed their plans. None of them exports unprocessed raw materials for instance. All of them have reasonably well developed infrastructure – road, rail, energy. You cannot ‘copy’ a city in India and ‘paste’ in Ukambani. We need to sort out the basics first.


I suppose that means infrastructure right?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Gathige
#44 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 5:18:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
limanika wrote:
Please wake up to the reality that some people will always argue in support of Konza,no need thus to waste time and bandwidth debating merits and demerits of Konza. The people I expect will always go to any lengths to defend Konza are:
• People who have bought land near Konza for speculation purposes
• People who think they have an opportunity to reap big from construction / planning contracts.
Note that those countries that have developed similar cities (India, S. Africa, US, etc.) were not in our league when they developed their plans. None of them exports unprocessed raw materials for instance. All of them have reasonably well developed infrastructure – road, rail, energy. You cannot ‘copy’ a city in India and ‘paste’ in Ukambani. We need to sort out the basics first.

@limanika, Good point. The same people opposing the laptop for school children as a waste of money are the same supporting Konza. The acts and deeds are worlds apart. The machakos City will soon overshadow Konza as they are rivaling for resources and the county may have more mileage over the National Govt in that case.
"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
alma
#45 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 5:34:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Gathige wrote:
limanika wrote:
Please wake up to the reality that some people will always argue in support of Konza,no need thus to waste time and bandwidth debating merits and demerits of Konza. The people I expect will always go to any lengths to defend Konza are:
• People who have bought land near Konza for speculation purposes
• People who think they have an opportunity to reap big from construction / planning contracts.
Note that those countries that have developed similar cities (India, S. Africa, US, etc.) were not in our league when they developed their plans. None of them exports unprocessed raw materials for instance. All of them have reasonably well developed infrastructure – road, rail, energy. You cannot ‘copy’ a city in India and ‘paste’ in Ukambani. We need to sort out the basics first.

@limanika, Good point. The same people opposing the laptop for school children as a waste of money are the same supporting Konza. The acts and deeds are worlds apart. The machakos City will soon overshadow Konza as they are rivaling for resources and the county may have more mileage over the National Govt in that case.


That may not be entirely true.

The truth of the matter whether people want to hear it or not is

1. Laptops will become a bigger white elephant than Turkwell dam

2. Konza will have no equal in failed cities in the whole world.

Unless you think that the world has time to wait for Kenyan children to be educated for the next 14 years and houses to be built in never never land, then you know you are smoking something.

Technology waits not for you to be educated nor for you to build a house. It will be too late.

There is a group of us who know that the problem in Kenya is infrastructure and working systems. Not hardware. After all, we get new cars on the road and people are still dying. The new car never saved their lives.

It's infrastructure, people and systems. Nothing more and nothing less.

I have seen nothing coming from gov't explaining how infrastructure is going to be improved. And I don't mean roads with loans. I mean in my kashags there is cable and cheap working internet connectivity.

I have seen nothing from gov't explaining how our students are going to be tech savvy. Just some ihub ngo creating "aps" for safaricom. I mean facilitating the sharp techies we have in kenya with loans, right now not in Konza

I have seen nothing in gov't that encourages small business growth. Still takes 2 months to have your company registered, 1 year to be vat certified, 1 million years to qualify for a tender if you don't know xxxxxx

But its ok to dream. So I'll quietly move to the dream thread.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
a4architect.com
#46 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 5:36:14 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@Gathige..very true. Any reasonable investor will choose Machakos or Kajiado over Konza any time.

If he is not restrained by finances, he will choose areas near CBD such as Karen, Gigiri, Upper Hill, Muthaiga, or along Thika road.
As it is, Konza subscribers are at 80% local. Am sure these local must be entities related to Ministry of ICT mainly to tag along and make Konza look like it has subscribers but in reality, will not invest a dime there.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
a4architect.com
#47 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 5:47:38 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
On the std 1 laptops, this will become the single most important gesture by Govt to reduce unemployment.

By letting all kenyan kids get to understand computers,majority of these kids will start competing with the best all ove rthe world.
In China, a std 4 kid can create a solar cell or a microchip. In Kenya, a university trained electrical engineer cant create such.
With computer knowledge, the kids in Samburu, Turkana, Lamu , Migingo etc will now be able to compete on an equal platform with other kids in private schools and international level.
Once these kids get to std 8, they can still increase their knowledge acquisition without lecturers.

By the time i graduated from UoN with a Bachelor of Architecture degree in 2001, computers were rare and beginning to creep into Nairobi.
At graduation, i knew less than the average fundi on the hands on approach in construction due to poor university teaching techniques. With use of the internet, not lecturers, i was able to teach myself more, get international work experience in Botswana, Rwanda, South Sudan, Zimbabwe etc.
All these opportunities couldn't have come to me without the power of the computer.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#48 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 5:58:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
a4architect.com wrote:
On the std 1 laptops, this will become the single most important gesture by Govt to reduce unemployment.

By letting all kenyan kids get to understand computers,majority of these kids will start competing with the best all ove rthe world.
In China, a std 4 kid can create a solar cell or a microchip. In Kenya, a university trained electrical engineer cant create such.
With computer knowledge, the kids in Samburu, Turkana, Lamu , Migingo etc will now be able to compete on an equal platform with other kids in private schools and international level.
Once these kids get to std 8, they can still increase their knowledge acquisition without lecturers.

By the time i graduated from UoN with a Bachelor of Architecture degree in 2001, computers were rare and beginning to creep into Nairobi.
At graduation, i knew less than the average fundi on the hands on approach in construction due to poor university teaching techniques. With use of the internet, not lecturers, i was able to teach myself more, get international work experience in Botswana, Rwanda, South Sudan, Zimbabwe etc.
All these opportunities couldn't have come to me without the power of the computer.


Its interesting you support the laptop project but who is likely to employ these lads and ladies upon graduation? ... Are we setting ourselves up for brain drain later?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
dunkang
#49 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 6:13:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
Konza and Kids laptops are a waste of resources.

Its not lack 'office space' or know how. Its the never ending corruption in the GoK that denies an able worker an opportunity and the chance is sold to a friend, relative, classmate, mheshimiwa's kids etc.
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

alma
#50 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 6:15:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
To some what I'm about to say may seem contrary to what I write on wazua. but it isn't

Those saying that laptops for 6 year olds are going to help this country in 14 years are totally lost and don't understand how online business and IT works.

It is not about IT its about time. Everyone can calculate how many cows they have and how much profit they expect to make 10 years from now considering costs and profit margins.

However, one person will use sticks drawn on the ground and another will use excell.

One person is coming up with decisions faster. It's not that one is sharper than the other.

Our children will not become computer gurus because they have a laptop when they are 6 years. They will become computer gurus because they got a good education. I know of very stupid jungus and their having laptops when young could not hide the fact that they didn't understand the elements of algebra.

The gov't is behaving like the guy who knows that it is important to have sharp kids so his solution is to sleep with every girl in the village instead of teaching 2 children to be very sharp.

I am sorry. Just because you have a laptop does not mean you can make a computer program.

The situation is made worse by the fact the person supposed to learn how to use the laptop is going to be taught by a person who has never seen a laptop.

If the plan is to solve the education system. The solution is not buying hardware but investing in the education system.

This situation is made worse by the fact that technology doesn't wait for you to have 16 meetings and 10 years to become sharp.

Case study is ghafla.com

Whether Kenyans know it or not, this is a success story that all our kids in school should be taught over and over again.

Ok I know. In one post I say they suck and in this I say they are great.

The guys of ghafla did not wait for tech to come to them they went out and did it. As the gov't was busy building konza dreams and laptop fantasies, these guys have gone ahead and captured the attention of every hormone driven teen in the country.

I guess we should have told them to wait first to get a 10gb serve with 20TB upspeeds before they started.

Laptops are putting the solution to the education system in hardware rather than concentrating on having people why 1 to the power of 3 plus 1 to the power of 2 is not the same as 1 + 1.

Laptops will never solve that. Good teachers will.

Just the same way as big buildings will never make us tech savvy but people will.

Whilst Kenya was building houses in Konza, Ghafla was building a tech and media empire. You tell me how that divide will look like 12 years from now when laptop kis are going to college and Konza is renting its first shop space.

Time is what IT buys. We are busy buying laptops and houses.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
a4architect.com
#51 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 6:22:20 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
The laptop issue is ok. The cost however need to come much lower.
There are 1m std 1 kids in Kenya.
A kindle costs say kes 2,000 landed in Nairobi.

http://www.alibaba.com/p...indle_ebook_reader.html

Multiply 1m x kes 2,000=kes 2billion.
It will cost kes 2B to supply kindles. How is Govt getting their 53B?

As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
Alba
#52 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 6:26:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
a4architect.com wrote:
On the std 1 laptops, this will become the single most important gesture by Govt to reduce unemployment.

By letting all kenyan kids get to understand computers,majority of these kids will start competing with the best all ove rthe world.
In China, a std 4 kid can create a solar cell or a microchip. In Kenya, a university trained electrical engineer cant create such.
With computer knowledge, the kids in Samburu, Turkana, Lamu , Migingo etc will now be able to compete on an equal platform with other kids in private schools and international level.
Once these kids get to std 8, they can still increase their knowledge acquisition without lecturers.

By the time i graduated from UoN with a Bachelor of Architecture degree in 2001, computers were rare and beginning to creep into Nairobi.
At graduation, i knew less than the average fundi on the hands on approach in construction due to poor university teaching techniques. With use of the internet, not lecturers, i was able to teach myself more, get international work experience in Botswana, Rwanda, South Sudan, Zimbabwe etc.
All these opportunities couldn't have come to me without the power of the computer.


You are sorely mistaken. Laptops in standard one will not make Kenyans more qualified. Kwani what is so special about a mere laptop that will suddenly make Kenyan kids capable of creating a solar cell or a micro-chip ?

And Im sorry but most of these kids dont have the technical acumen to start inventing solar cells as you claim.

Secondly if Kenya wants to create graduates who are at par with those in China then they should focus their efforts at places like UoN and at national schools like Alliance and such. These are the places where government should focus on upgrading facilities because to put simply, this is where the brains are. Giving lap tops to all standard one kids many of whom will end up being manambas and shamba-boys is a waste. Heck even in China, the vast majority do not become scientists. The govt must channel its resources appropriately.

Not every Kenyan kid will get a white collar job when they grow up. Other talents need to be enocuraged including jobs like carpentry, sewing and even sports and music.

Thirdly I am worried that this whole lap top mambo is to give tender business to one of Ruto or Uhuru's cohorts. Remember how one of Michuki's business sidekicks supplied seat belts for matatus. This may be another kusema na ku-tender scam.


And fourthly, I strongly believe that many of these laps tops will be stolen by teachers and end up being sold on the black market.

alma
#53 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 6:32:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
a4a you are slowly sounding like someone who wants the contracts to come to Kenyans not solving the problem.

I'll tell you a story.

Some guy decided to setup a website to sell his products. So he went and hired the most expensive designer for his website.

Another fellow decided to setup a website but he didn't have any money. So he built his.

5 months later, guy A was not making any money, but guy B had got enough money from his website to build one just as expensive as guy A

8 months later guy A was very categorical saying that websites don't make money and Kenyans don't use the internet.

Guy B was too busy getting work that he had to hire others to do his work.

The problem was not the website. read laptop, Konza

The problem was that Guy B knew how to market and he only used his website as a tool to do whatever he does on the ground faster and more efficiently.

Guy A on the other hand thought that building a website, would solve ALL his problems.

The above are true stories and if you wish I can send you the data and the fellows can talk to you.

When guy A decided to invest in tech, he thought it would solve all his problems. But tech doesn't solve problems. People do. People can use tech to solve problems but tech will never solve a problem.

When the guys who came up with a laptop can explain in 3 sentences what problem they are trying to solve I will listen to them.

Thus far, these laptops are only meant to

1. make kenya look cool
2. pretend that we know algebra
3. prove a political statement

Exactly what education problem are laptops supposed to solve?

Just look at wazua. Grown men and women with access to laptops and you can see the standards of our discussions. Go to facebook, twitter etc

Just because a fellow has a laptop, does not make him sharp.

But true education does and always will.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
a4architect.com
#54 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 6:35:25 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@alma. Check this video below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=526xslmO6Ds

Its about how to make a simple solar cell.

Now picture a Kid in Turkana checking out this video on their 2,000kes kindle.

They can then learn to make a simple solar cell and help themselves out of poverry.
Such info is not in any school carriculum.
The idea is for these kids to teach themselves.

Its easier for kids to learn through the net than wait for their teachers who are mostly analogue. Same situation extends till kenyan universities.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
alma
#55 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 6:44:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
@a4

I have no doubt in my mind that a child of 5 years can make anything he wishes to. But there has to be an education first.

I can promise you and even bet you that this kid did not build this because he had a laptop. But because he learned about solar energy and the basics of electricity.

Just like the young Kenyan lad who's sold his motor bike to build his helicopter.

You should listen to the guy talk about capacitors.

He doesn't have a laptop.

Education is the key and there is no way around it. I have lived with some neighbours who's kids are actually developing these ps3 games. They are 14 years old.

But I can assure you, it was not the computer. When the kids take a pen to paper and you dwell on a mathematical equation, you then realise that the homeschooling their parents did was not in vain.

Laptops make Kenyans feel horny.

I'll repeat.

The word computer and Laptop makes a Kenyan feel horny as hell.

The problem is that his mind is shitty. He only uses his laptop to go to online brothels.

Let's get the education standards back to where they were. It's that simple. So that when you give your child a laptop, he's using it to make that kind of transistor not watching porn, going to mashada and poking people on facebook.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
a4architect.com
#56 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 6:44:50 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@alma.Lets agree that the kindles/laptops will help some of the kids to gather more info than thru the usual analogue textbook means.
Here am speaking thru experience. A std 1 kid with access to the net is light years ahead compared to one without it.
My std 1 son can navigate a comp better than i can and no one taught him how to.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
Alba
#57 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 6:54:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
A standard one pupil will have the drive and determination to get himself out of poverty ? Do you actually believe this stuff or are you just desperate to justify anything jubilee does ?

Swali tu.

Please think critically. Theres no doubt that standard one kids like lap tops just like any other toys.

But creativeness and determination is born out of desperation. Most standard one kids don't even have a concept of what poverty is. The chance that a standard one kid will get himself out of poverty because of these lap tops is as good as a snowballs chance in hell. Its virtually zero.



alma
#58 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 6:59:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
@a4 i have used ghafla as a case study. The next case study is YOU.

Believe it or not you are a case study on using IT. Yet your website is one of the worst websites I have ever seen. Honestly. And I think you know that too.

But look at your thread on Ask the architect.

I found that thread when I was not in Kenya and would read it over and over again. You had a horrible website ( read no laptop) but your information ( read knowledge and information) was there for us to see.

You have built your business through IT but the IT would have been useless if you did not come out as someone who knows what they are doing.

I know there are some architects who hate you. But the fact of the matter is that you marketed yourself to death even if your IT skills were horrible.

It's the same story with these kids. As long as the fellow doesn't know that A is for Apple and B is for dog not Burukenge, that laptop is useless. It will be used for every other reason other than learning algebra.

Our education system is not failing because of lack of tech. It's failing simply because tisha wanjiku on Churchill is really not a joke but a real life experience.

Let us not mix IT with learning.

Worse, lets not mix computers in gov't with corruption free zones. A corrupt person will only use the computer to make his corruption faster and more efficient.

Our standard 1 kids don't need laptops, they need to learn and get a decent education.

As we speak, I think you know that our education system has been failing each and every year. Laptops won't solve that.

Just as Konza won't suddenly make Kenyans sharp and computer geniouses. In fact, Konza will make every Kenyan an employee of a call center based in Ghana and India.

This I promise you.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
limanika
#59 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 7:01:58 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
They said the aim was to expose kids to computers early and possibly get them interested in technology. Whatever they meant by technology. In my own assessment, the program is not SMART- How will the program proceed to make any of the kids become the local Steve Jobs? I know not of any country that was developed by groping in the dark / by programmes whose impact is immeasurable at the start. To develop a country, you must clearly see the end from the beginning, and know the means to get there. How useful is a computer without internet and a printer? Who will give these kids money to pay for air time so they can access internet? How many kids entering class one today translate into high school and University? How many kids in class eight today can speak fluent English?
If we must take laptops to basic schools, it would be better to build one computer lab per school, equip with say 20-30 laptops or so which can be used by every grade. A kid need not more than one ‘computer’ lesson per week. What will a kid who can’t write a composition use computer for 24-7?
dunkang
#60 Posted : Wednesday, July 03, 2013 7:08:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
Laptops for kids is a useless project. If they want a breed of computer hackers, train those in high school, not kindergateners.

Konza project, another nonsensical project. You want technology companies to invest here, provide basic infrastructure in existing towns and cities cheaply and sustainably.

Jubilee SUCKS!
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

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