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McReggae
#31 Posted : Monday, June 17, 2013 12:32:08 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
@AlphDoti, this is how I am getting your response:

Only the prophet (pbuh) Mohammad has the original version of the injil, as inspired by Allah. Is this correct?


That has always been his stand!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
AlphDoti
#32 Posted : Monday, June 17, 2013 12:39:01 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
McReggae wrote:
tycho wrote:
@AlphDoti, this is how I am getting your response:

Only the prophet (pbuh) Mohammad has the original version of the injil, as inspired by Allah. Is this correct?

That has always been his stand!!!

@McReggae Shame on you Shame on you

@tycho, that's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that, God has revealed books to a number of His messengers.
These books are Torah to Moses, Zabur to David, Injil to Jesus and finally Quran to Muhammad peace be upon them all.

The books revealed to Moses, David and Jesus (peace be upon them) have been corrupted.

The only book, which has remained as was revealed, more than 1400 years is the Quran.

I didn't not say the Quran is the Injil. No.
But the Quran some of the messages mentioned in the injil and Torah and Zabur.
Just like the Injil of Jesus mentioned some of the things in the Torah and Zabur.

So why was the Quran revealed?
To warn those who say God has given birth to child.

Quran 5:48
Quote:
- And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad ) the Book (this Qur'an) in truth,
- confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohayminan (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures).
- So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and follow not their vain desires,
- diverging away from the truth that has come to you.
- To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way.
- If Allah willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you;
- so strive as in a race in good deeds. The return of you (all) is to Allah;
- then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ.
Meduza
#33 Posted : Monday, June 17, 2013 12:49:58 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/7/2013
Posts: 447
Location: Nairobi
Um Sayala wrote:
When I started this thread I never knew it would take this direction.

My prof once told me that reading the bible from historical perspective may help you understand it more than if you did it with religious inclinations.

For example, why was Barabbas released at the expense of Jesus at the cross?

What really happened to this Barabbas after he was released?

What were the struggles of the Jewish nation between BC27 up to 15AD when the Roman leader died?

Are there some other historical books written around this time, what do they say?


there should be, some bits might come from the Roman empire history. google History of Jews in the Roman Empire might give some bits of info and references
You cant win, unless you first begin....
AlphDoti
#34 Posted : Monday, June 17, 2013 12:56:29 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Meduza wrote:
Um Sayala wrote:
When I started this thread I never knew it would take this direction.

My prof once told me that reading the bible from historical perspective may help you understand it more than if you did it with religious inclinations.

For example, why was Barabbas released at the expense of Jesus at the cross?

What really happened to this Barabbas after he was released?

What were the struggles of the Jewish nation between BC27 up to 15AD when the Roman leader died?

Are there some other historical books written around this time, what do they say?

there should be, some bits might come from the Roman empire history. google History of Jews in the Roman Empire might give some bits of info and references

@Um Sayala I feel you. And besides Barnabas being eye witness to many things that happened to Jesus (pbuh), they expunged his books from the collection of Books, Biblos.

They realized his writing was not going according to what they wanted people to believe. So they removed it and hide it from the public eye.

Investigate and you'll be surprised my friend Sad Sad
tycho
#35 Posted : Monday, June 17, 2013 1:12:42 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Thanks for the clarification AlphDoti.

Taking the statement that God reveals his truth to his messengers as true, and that the Koran is neither Injil nor Torah, then Mohammad, must have had access to the books.

And because the Koran was written after the Canon, then Mohammed had only been exposed to the fakes.

And hence the revelation to Mohammad was to rectify the previous errors ('Koran was written to negate that God gave forth a child').

Is this correct?
guru267
#36 Posted : Monday, June 17, 2013 1:49:24 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti could you please show evidence how the Torah, Zabur and Injil have been corrupted through the Bible??

My understanding is that the Bible also contains truth but it is interpretation that has taken Christianity to the dogs

For example I know we are all daughters and sons of God but Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus is GOD or where in the Bible did Jesus do anything in his own name??
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Meduza
#37 Posted : Monday, June 17, 2013 1:54:26 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/7/2013
Posts: 447
Location: Nairobi
guru267 wrote:
AlphDoti could you please show evidence how the Torah, Zabur and Injil have been corrupted through the Bible??

My understanding is that the Bible also contains truth but it is interpretation that has taken Christianity to the dogs

For example I know we are all daughters and sons of God but Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus is GOD or where in the Bible did Jesus do anything in his own name??


Am assuming Torah- are the first 5 books of bible(Moses)
Zabur-is psalms(something to do with David)
Injil-is the Gospels(Jesus)
just interpreting by sound.

I dont think these books were corrupted, maybe not all have not been included in the bible, the other books do still exist and can be read if one wants to.
You cant win, unless you first begin....
AlphDoti
#38 Posted : Monday, June 17, 2013 9:06:25 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Meduza wrote:
guru267 wrote:
AlphDoti could you please show evidence how the Torah, Zabur and Injil have been corrupted through the Bible??

My understanding is that the Bible also contains truth but it is interpretation that has taken Christianity to the dogs

For example I know we are all daughters and sons of God but Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus is GOD or where in the Bible did Jesus do anything in his own name??

Am assuming Torah- are the first 5 books of bible(Moses)
Zabur-is psalms(something to do with David)
Injil-is the Gospels(Jesus)
just interpreting by sound.

I dont think these books were corrupted, maybe not all have not been included in the bible, the other books do still exist and can be read if one wants to.

Quran says Moses was given one book not many.

Quran 41:45
Quote:
- And indeed We gave Musa (Moses) the Scripture, but dispute arose therein.
- And had it not been for a Word that went forth before from your Lord, (the torment would have overtaken them)
- and the matter would have been settled between them.
- But truly, they are in grave doubt thereto (i.e. about the Qur'an).


They took Torah given to Moses and subdivided it into many books. There is no book called Genesis God has revealed... They just took stories of creation and put them under the title "Genesis" etc
AlphDoti
#39 Posted : Monday, June 17, 2013 9:17:48 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
AlphDoti wrote:
Meduza wrote:
guru267 wrote:
AlphDoti could you please show evidence how the Torah, Zabur and Injil have been corrupted through the Bible??

My understanding is that the Bible also contains truth but it is interpretation that has taken Christianity to the dogs

For example I know we are all daughters and sons of God but Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus is GOD or where in the Bible did Jesus do anything in his own name??

Am assuming Torah- are the first 5 books of bible(Moses)
Zabur-is psalms(something to do with David)
Injil-is the Gospels(Jesus)
just interpreting by sound.

I dont think these books were corrupted, maybe not all have not been included in the bible, the other books do still exist and can be read if one wants to.

Quran says Moses was given one book not many.

Quran 41:45
Quote:
- And indeed We gave Musa (Moses) the Scripture, but dispute arose therein.
- And had it not been for a Word that went forth before from your Lord, (the torment would have overtaken them)
- and the matter would have been settled between them.
- But truly, they are in grave doubt thereto (i.e. about the Qur'an).


They took Torah given to Moses and subdivided it into many books. There is no book called Genesis God has revealed... They just took stories of creation and put them under the title "Genesis" etc

The Jews divided the book of Moses into many parts.

Some mocked God when they said:
"Nothing did God send down to any human being (by inspiration)."

You wonder
...who sent down the Book which Musa (Moses) brought, a light and a guidance to mankind which the Jews made into (separate) papersheets, disclosing (some of it) and concealing (much).
..

They play in their vain discussions Shame on you Shame on you

Quran brings warning
Quran 2:79
Quote:
- Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say,
- "This is from Allah," to purchase with it a little price!
- Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby.
AlphDoti
#40 Posted : Monday, June 17, 2013 9:22:58 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
guru267 wrote:
AlphDoti could you please show evidence how the Torah, Zabur and Injil have been corrupted through the Bible??

My understanding is that the Bible also contains truth but it is interpretation that has taken Christianity to the dogs

For example I know we are all daughters and sons of God but Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus is GOD or where in the Bible did Jesus do anything in his own name??

You want to see where the corruption happened?
Let's ask Paul who said: "I Paul have written this book by my own hands."

Philomen 1:19
- Mimi Paulo, ninaandika waraka huu kwa mkono wangu mwenyewe, mimi nitalipa ( d'oh! Liar Pray ).
- Si kwamba ninakudai hata nafsi yako mwenyewe.

And who wrote to his King just because others wrote?
Let's ask Luka who said: "I'm writing a report to my king Theophelus"

Luke 1:1
- Kwa kuwa, watu wengi wamekaa ili kuandika habari za mambo yaliyotukia katikati yetu,
- kama vile yalivyokabidhiwa kwetu na wale ambao walikuwa mashahidi walioona na watumishi wa Bwana,
- mimi nami baada ya kuchunguza kila kitu kwa uangalifu kuanzia mwanzo,
- niliamua kukuandikia habari za mambo hayo ewe mtukufu Theofilo,
- ili upate kujua ule ukweli kuhusu yale uliyofundishwa.

Is this really Moses' writing? How could he report his own death!

Deut 34:5
- Naye Mose mtumishi wa BWANA akafa huko Moabu, kama BWANA alivyokuwa amesema (he was writing from the dead, reporting his own death?? Anxious Not talking )

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