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Who is God?
seppuku
#1 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 8:17:20 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/11/2010
Posts: 918
Yes, seriously. Who is God? What is your perception of him?

Curiously enough, this thread has it's genesis in another one about marriage. @kenmac makes good points there, but he intricately ties marriage (or at least the success of it) to Christianity. He suggests that for a marriage to succeed, it must be founded in Christ. @tycho, contributing to the same thread, implies that all of life must conform to Godliness in order to make sense. Yet the character of God appears consistently discordant depending on who you ask. Multiplicity of different religions with different doctrines, for one, is clear testimony to this assertion. So is disagreement over how many "gods" there are, where they live and the level of their influence on mankind and nature in general.
Learn first to treat your time as you would your money, then treat your money as you do your time.
tycho
#2 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 8:36:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
If you ask 'Who', then you already know 'him'. If you ask 'what' then you already know 'it'.

And when you say 'God', you commit to a symbol. A symbol can't be univocal. It always points beyond itself, to nothingness.

So God is the symbol of participation from the known and 'literal' to the unknown and inscrutable. Nothingness.

As such, all cultures and religions do not only appear to differ, but necessarily converge.
seppuku
#3 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 8:45:11 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/11/2010
Posts: 918
To say that "a symbol cannot be univocal", is the same thing as to say "a symbol will necessarily mean different things to different observers of it". To say that about the symbol "God" is to imply, for all intents and purposes, that there is more than one God. To introduce the notion of inscrutability is to commit infanticide to this thread.
Learn first to treat your time as you would your money, then treat your money as you do your time.
seppuku
#4 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 8:49:06 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/11/2010
Posts: 918
tycho wrote:
If you ask 'Who', then you already know 'him'. If you ask 'what' then you already know 'it'.

And when you say 'God', you commit to a symbol. A symbol can't be univocal. It always points beyond itself, to nothingness.

So God is the symbol of participation from the known and 'literal' to the unknown and inscrutable. Nothingness.

As such, all cultures and religions do not only appear to differ, but necessarily converge.


@tycho, what do you mean by "necessarily converge"?
Learn first to treat your time as you would your money, then treat your money as you do your time.
tycho
#5 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 9:18:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
seppuku wrote:
To say that "a symbol cannot be univocal", is the same thing as to say "a symbol will necessarily mean different things to different observers of it". To say that about the symbol "God" is to imply, for all intents and purposes, that there is more than one God. To introduce the notion of inscrutability is to commit infanticide to this thread.


Yes. If symbols aren't univocal, then it follows that each participant has his/her God. But the story doesn't end in subjectivity only. There must be communicative action, and shared meaning. Once this is considered, then the number of Gods reduces along the dynamics of communication and sharing, and being. For example, crops grow in the same way all over the world.

This is the process of convergence.

Inscrutability on the other hand, invites humans to communicative action. If it were not there we'd have neither religion nor science.
tycho
#6 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 9:23:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
seppuku wrote:
tycho wrote:
If you ask 'Who', then you already know 'him'. If you ask 'what' then you already know 'it'.

And when you say 'God', you commit to a symbol. A symbol can't be univocal. It always points beyond itself, to nothingness.

So God is the symbol of participation from the known and 'literal' to the unknown and inscrutable. Nothingness.

As such, all cultures and religions do not only appear to differ, but necessarily converge.


@tycho, what do you mean by "necessarily converge"?


The world came out of 'nothing'. Everything ends up in 'nothing'.

Nothingness is the necessary point of convergence.

For example, most religions I know share this ultimate value though different symbols and metaphors are used.
symbols
#7 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 9:34:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
God vs the Infinity of Nothingness.The irresistible force vs the immovable object.To understand this is to understand why God is Love.
digitek1
#8 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 9:37:00 PM
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Joined: 2/3/2010
Posts: 1,797
Location: Kenya
how would a two year old answer this question? how about a 90 year old on his deathbed?
I may be wrong..but then I could be right
symbols
#9 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 9:40:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
digitek1 wrote:
how would a two year old answer this question? how about a 90 year old on his deathbed?


How would God answer this question?
tycho
#10 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 9:48:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
symbols wrote:
digitek1 wrote:
how would a two year old answer this question? how about a 90 year old on his deathbed?


How would God answer this question?


The two year old and the ninety year old would each answer in accordance to their participation in the symbol.

Nothingness would answer with silence.
symbols
#11 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 9:55:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
digitek1 wrote:
how would a two year old answer this question? how about a 90 year old on his deathbed?


How would God answer this question?


The two year old and the ninety year old would each answer in accordance to their participation in the symbol.

Nothingness would answer with silence.


An answer is an action.An action implies an actor.That would imply nothingness is.
tycho
#12 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 9:59:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
digitek1 wrote:
how would a two year old answer this question? how about a 90 year old on his deathbed?


How would God answer this question?


The two year old and the ninety year old would each answer in accordance to their participation in the symbol.

Nothingness would answer with silence.


An answer is an action.An action implies an actor.That would imply nothingness is.


Yes. It is. He is. I am. Identity.

Zero. The origin.
symbols
#13 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 10:06:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
digitek1 wrote:
how would a two year old answer this question? how about a 90 year old on his deathbed?


How would God answer this question?


The two year old and the ninety year old would each answer in accordance to their participation in the symbol.

Nothingness would answer with silence.


An answer is an action.An action implies an actor.That would imply nothingness is.


Yes. It is. He is. I am. Identity.

Zero. The origin.


Then it ceases to be nothingness yet nothingness can't be.
tycho
#14 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 10:08:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
digitek1 wrote:
how would a two year old answer this question? how about a 90 year old on his deathbed?


How would God answer this question?


The two year old and the ninety year old would each answer in accordance to their participation in the symbol.

Nothingness would answer with silence.


An answer is an action.An action implies an actor.That would imply nothingness is.


Yes. It is. He is. I am. Identity.

Zero. The origin.


Then it ceases to be nothingness.


And becomes everything.
digitek1
#15 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 10:18:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/3/2010
Posts: 1,797
Location: Kenya
again this path leads to paradox not illumination
I may be wrong..but then I could be right
symbols
#16 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 10:19:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
digitek1 wrote:
how would a two year old answer this question? how about a 90 year old on his deathbed?


How would God answer this question?


The two year old and the ninety year old would each answer in accordance to their participation in the symbol.

Nothingness would answer with silence.


An answer is an action.An action implies an actor.That would imply nothingness is.


Yes. It is. He is. I am. Identity.

Zero. The origin.


Then it ceases to be nothingness.


And becomes everything.


Nothing can't be everything.A vacuum can't be full.

McReggae
#17 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 10:23:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
You can't seek God by competition in knowledge.......convergence is the only way.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
tycho
#18 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 10:25:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
digitek1 wrote:
again this path leads to paradox not illumination


It is paradox that leads to illumination. If this were not the case then there'd be no need for illumination. Or no illumination. This is before creation.

The act of creation, and the Creator and created must now enter into a relationship of images.

But thou shall make no graven image, though Man was made in his image. No image is also an image. The authentic image.
symbols
#19 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 10:25:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
digitek1 wrote:
again this path leads to paradox not illumination


I disagree even if there is no conclusive answer.Assuming one believes in God,tracing the question of the first Mover/Cause inevitably leads to a better understanding of existence or aspects of its nature.
tycho
#20 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 10:32:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
digitek1 wrote:
how would a two year old answer this question? how about a 90 year old on his deathbed?


How would God answer this question?


The two year old and the ninety year old would each answer in accordance to their participation in the symbol.

Nothingness would answer with silence.


An answer is an action.An action implies an actor.That would imply nothingness is.


Yes. It is. He is. I am. Identity.

Zero. The origin.


Then it ceases to be nothingness.


And becomes everything.


Nothing can't be everything.A vacuum can't be full.



A vacuum is full of something. Just today I was learning about protons turning into neutrons, then protons and neutrons forming other more complex particles.

A vacuum is a quantum field.
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