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Confusion in God?
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Mtu Biz wrote:Ante_Christa wrote:Is there any evidence that God did or does anything in a haphazard manner?
No. On the contrary there is evidence and stories that God did (and still does) everything orderly and decently.
From the earliest times when God dealt with large groups there was organisation with internal systems and order. From Moses to David to Nehemiah to Jesus to the apostles.
For example James remained in Jerusalem to organise and oversee while others were sent to Rome Philipi etc.
Saul upon his conversion and direct communication with Jesus himself was sent to someone to be told what to do. He did not go off to start his independent:
a) Jerusalem Pentecostal Church,
b) Pauline Evangelistic Ministry,
c) Damascus Road Harvest Church,
d) The Word Bethel Church,
e) Damascus Holy Spirit Revelation Church,
f) Redeemed Damascus Gospel International Church etc
he was sent into the already existing organized church and from here he was sent out to Asia and Europe.
so in present times with countless organizations purporting to represent God is there an organization that God has identified as his own and thats he works through?
is there an organization that claims to be Gods organized church?0
there must be, there has to be.
I cannot for one minute believe that God works in a cacophony of organizations, for confusion no matter how organized is not his method.
Where can i find this organization? What is its name? @Ante Christa This has been a most mind numbing experience reading through this thread. To answer your questions.... There are countless organizations that claim to be Gods organised church. God has historically worked through 2 Organised groups only. 1. The Jewish ethnic grouping/nation of Israel. 2. The Church - Jew and Gentile alike. According to the scriptures, 1. Jesus the Christ is the head of the body, which is the church Col1:18 2. The church is comprised of those whom Jesus spoke of to the woman at the well thus (John 4:24) 19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”
21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”
26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.” These worshipers spoken of by Jesus do not subscribe to any earthly identity or organization as much as they subscribe to Jesus the Christ Himself. Their faith and allegiance is not tied to any earthly organization as much as it is tied to Jesus Christ. You will therefore be hard pressed to find this organization.. yet it does exist, and is described here... Hebrews 12 22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. Consider the dialogue between Jesus and Pointus Pilate before his crucifiction John 18 33 Then Pilate entered the Praetorium again, called Jesus, and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?”
34 Jesus answered him, “Are you speaking for yourself about this, or did others tell you this concerning Me?”
35 Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered You to me. What have You done?”
36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”
37 Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”
Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”
Your answer is in verse 36 above. The organization you seek exists as a Kingdom. A Kingdom not of this world. A Heavenly Kingdom. The citizens of this Kingdom are citizens by birth and this not of Natural descent or a husbands will.. but born of God.  Best response I have read in this thread since it started! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/7/2012 Posts: 180
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Mtu Biz wrote:Ante_Christa wrote:Is there any evidence that God did or does anything in a haphazard manner?
No. On the contrary there is evidence and stories that God did (and still does) everything orderly and decently.
From the earliest times when God dealt with large groups there was organisation with internal systems and order. From Moses to David to Nehemiah to Jesus to the apostles.
For example James remained in Jerusalem to organise and oversee while others were sent to Rome Philipi etc.
Saul upon his conversion and direct communication with Jesus himself was sent to someone to be told what to do. He did not go off to start his independent:
a) Jerusalem Pentecostal Church,
b) Pauline Evangelistic Ministry,
c) Damascus Road Harvest Church,
d) The Word Bethel Church,
e) Damascus Holy Spirit Revelation Church,
f) Redeemed Damascus Gospel International Church etc
he was sent into the already existing organized church and from here he was sent out to Asia and Europe.
so in present times with countless organizations purporting to represent God is there an organization that God has identified as his own and thats he works through?
is there an organization that claims to be Gods organized church?0
there must be, there has to be.
I cannot for one minute believe that God works in a cacophony of organizations, for confusion no matter how organized is not his method.
Where can i find this organization? What is its name? @Ante Christa This has been a most mind numbing experience reading through this thread. To answer your questions.... There are countless organizations that claim to be Gods organised church. God has historically worked through 2 Organised groups only. 1. The Jewish ethnic grouping/nation of Israel. 2. The Church - Jew and Gentile alike. According to the scriptures, 1. Jesus the Christ is the head of the body, which is the church Col1:18 2. The church is comprised of those whom Jesus spoke of to the woman at the well thus (John 4:24) 19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”
21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”
26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.” These worshipers spoken of by Jesus do not subscribe to any earthly identity or organization as much as they subscribe to Jesus the Christ Himself. Their faith and allegiance is not tied to any earthly organization as much as it is tied to Jesus Christ. You will therefore be hard pressed to find this organization.. yet it does exist, and is described here... Hebrews 12 22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. Consider the dialogue between Jesus and Pointus Pilate before his crucifiction John 18 33 Then Pilate entered the Praetorium again, called Jesus, and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?”
34 Jesus answered him, “Are you speaking for yourself about this, or did others tell you this concerning Me?”
35 Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered You to me. What have You done?”
36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”
37 Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”
Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”
Your answer is in verse 36 above. The organization you seek exists as a Kingdom. A Kingdom not of this world. A Heavenly Kingdom. The citizens of this Kingdom are citizens by birth and this not of Natural descent or a husbands will.. but born of God. @ Mtu-Biz: well put. Eagles don't flock, you have to find them one at a time.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Mtu biz, If God has acted in history through two groups then he isn't Supreme, or if he is Supreme, then there exists other God's who compete against him. Or human history is about the 'Church' and the Jews.
Again if it is true that God has acted through a group of people called the Church, why not direct him to that group?
Why do you suddenly speak of heaven as if it had not come to earth? When Jesus was answering Pilate, where was Kingdom of heaven? Could one be directed to it?
Wasn't the Kingdom a body and flesh? Couldn't even Thomas touch it?
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 6/12/2013 Posts: 69
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I am not one to go with the flow but I took the weekend to mull over these things Mtu biz has said. The more I read it the more I get convinced. Mdogo mdogo. Its like light at the end of this dark tunnel. Not Mtu biz himself but what he is saying. I am under no illusion I will be hard pressed to find Gods people organized in a way. 5 pages later, many one-liners from the bible wrested from their contexts and contention from new agers and this is the first substantive step I have made in this quest. I wish there were more individuals to give more constructive contributions. Binding up demons hardly constitutes constructive. Will it be taking it too far to request Mtu biz if I can link up with him? I have an urge to mock Mukiri again like Elijah did on Mt. Carmel but I have something else for him. I dont want to drive him deeper to the opposite direction. Just for Mukiri.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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i_am_saved wrote:I am not one to go with the flow but I took the weekend to mull over these things Mtu biz has said.
The more I read it the more I get convinced. Mdogo mdogo. Its like light at the end of this dark tunnel.
Not Mtu biz himself but what he is saying.
I am under no illusion I will be hard pressed to find Gods people organized in a way.
5 pages later, many one-liners from the bible wrested from their contexts and contention from new agers and this is the first substantive step I have made in this quest.
I wish there were more individuals to give more constructive contributions.
Binding up demons hardly constitutes constructive.
Will it be taking it too far to request Mtu biz if I can link up with him?
I have an urge to mock Mukiri again like Elijah did on Mt. Carmel but I have something else for him.
I dont want to drive him deeper to the opposite direction.
@i am saved. Im glad you took time to examine these things.. Believe me when i tell you that i may not amount to much in person. Yet iam all for fellowship, but i tend to keep my online and offline lives separate. Hmm... mtubiz at gmail dot com drop me a line.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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Ante_Christa wrote:
....Where can i find this organization? What is its name?
Christa, I wish you all the best on this noble search for God and self. I have been through it myself. Unfortunately I have no wisdom to share. But some things thing I have learned: 1. God is not confined to a building, an organization or even a belief system 2. He is plural, yet one. 3. She has a sense of humor. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/31/2013 Posts: 109
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Mtu biz, hiyo burungo imefika hiyo gmail? Lol.
Wakanyugi, that is strange. Perhaps you can join this expedition in search once again?
You just might rediscover she is a he.
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