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kenolkobil returns to profit in Q1 2013
mwekez@ji
#81 Posted : Thursday, June 06, 2013 9:04:05 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
Management time being diverted to the courts. Company performance will feel it!
VituVingiSana
#82 Posted : Thursday, June 06, 2013 3:16:09 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,129
Location: Nairobi
dunkang wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
KenolKobil sues Kenya refinery for Sh3.1bn

Excellent news ;-)

SMH.
@VVS, what has gotten in to your head nowadays. You have truely fallen in love with KK shares. Very dangerous brother, very dangerous. Chunga usiwe maskini sababu ya mapenzi.

You don't the GoK and live happily ever after. And there is no guarantee that the court will agree on the 'loss of business'.


Others including Total & Shell/Vivo (Igathe Polycarp has been very critical of KPRL) want KPRL closed. Even Nyoike has grudgingly accepted it.

The lawsuit is about products worth billions held by KPRL. Others are affected as well. KPRL may have sold or stolen (like happened at KPC re: Triton) these products. That's where the problem is.

@Dunkang: The govt is not always right. If it were then all firms run by GoK would be doing well. Which one is doing well without special favors?
Think of NOCK which is not #1 despite all the favoritism.
Or Orange vs Safcom? [Telkom was battered by Safcom before & after Orange came in]
NBK vs Equity/BBK/SCBK? NBK was left in the dust but these banks.
KenRe vs Jubilee. KenRe gets special benefits not accorded to anyone else.

If KK gets back to business (forget Puma, etc) then it has a good (not great due to price controls) future. The current price reflects the 'hurt' from price controls.

@mwekezaji - Will the lawsuit take up mgmt time? Yes. Is it worth it for 3.1bn? Yes. Will other firms go after KPRL? Yes. Will it take time? Yes. Does KK need KPRL? No.

@Cde @miennyma : GoK can make these problems go away. Buy KK Laughing out loudly but NOCK doesn't have 23bn to buy KK.

@guru : I think KK has shelved the idea of being sold for now & that is a better idea i.e. grow the business, go after debtors, etc. A buyer will pop up as & when the time comes. Please differentiate KK from the biwotts.

In the Annual Report, Segman talks of Strategic Investors & not selling the firm. Compare that to Access Kenya's Somens who were clear about selling the firm. A strategic investor brings capital, expertise, financing, supply chains, demand/customers, marketing, etc & not necessarily buying the business.

ScanGroup comes to mind. WPP has been increasing its stake but provides a larger regional footprint, expertise, etc to enable ScanGroup to grow while retaining local management skills.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
guru267
#83 Posted : Thursday, June 06, 2013 4:10:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
In the Annual Report, Segman talks of Strategic Investors & not selling the firm. Compare that to Access Kenya's Somens who were clear about selling the firm. A strategic investor brings capital, expertise, financing, supply chains, demand/customers, marketing, etc & not necessarily buying the business.


@VVS whether its a takeover or a strategic investor... Why would I put my capital in a company tied up in litigation..

Wasn't KK awarded 5billion in some KPRL/KPC case some years ago that still hasn't been paid up to now?? All you can get from suing GOK is a whole load of legal fees and time wasted!

As much as the litigation is necessary it may not be the best thing to happen to KK..
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
VituVingiSana
#84 Posted : Thursday, June 06, 2013 4:20:22 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,129
Location: Nairobi
guru267 wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
In the Annual Report, Segman talks of Strategic Investors & not selling the firm. Compare that to Access Kenya's Somens who were clear about selling the firm. A strategic investor brings capital, expertise, financing, supply chains, demand/customers, marketing, etc & not necessarily buying the business.


@VVS whether its a takeover or a strategic investor... Why would I put my capital in a company tied up in litigation..

Wasn't KK awarded 5billion in some KPRL/KPC case some years ago that still hasn't been paid up to now?? All you can get from suing GOK is a whole load of legal fees and time wasted!

As much as the litigation is necessary it may not be the best thing to happen to KK..
You are right. Litigation is never fun. The major beneficiaries are always the lawyers whether it involves a divorce, child custody, elections (see the KES 506mn the Kenyan taxpayer will have to pay) or commercial disputes. Let me address why I stick to KK in another post.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#85 Posted : Thursday, June 06, 2013 5:06:04 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,129
Location: Nairobi
Why do I still stick with KK?

I have gone through a logic process. I did the same with KQ [which I like as a Kenyan firm] then sold out just after the Rights Issue when the Investment Logic failed. I support KQ as an airline not an investment.

1) I look at 'forward statements' or outlook not history [unless it is to learn about patterns]. At today's price of 10.40, I like it versus other options. Nevertheless, I remain diversified. I am not a speculator so I look at it over 3-5 years but I will sell out if I think the price has overtaken sense.

2) KPRL - Read this http://www.cofek.co.ke/Letter%20to%20KPRL.pdf
All the major [non-briefcase] players are upset with KPRL's inefficiencies
"In 2011 for instance, an audit by Deloitte & Touche showed that the marketers had suffered a cumulative loss of up to Sh7 billion arising from the re-exporting for further refining." http://www.standardmedia...finery-was-long-overdue

There was another audit in the works & KK mentioned in the AGM that it was happy with the results/conclusions.

KK has sued KPRL for KES 3.1bn [which is probably derived from Deloitte's audit report] which may be relied on the court/s. I expect other OMCs are waiting in the wings to see where this goes. I expect KPRL to fold up sooner than later in its current format. The good news is that it owns lots of land & storage tanks which are very valuable assets.

3) KPC - An arbitrator ruled for KK for 5.4bn or so. A foolish judge said the KES 5.4 bn award to KK is too much for the economy. The fool had no concept of 'biashara' when land in Embakasi is valued at 100mn/acre & Orbit was granted an award over 100 acres = 11bn. The losses by KK & KQ (1H) of KES 6bn hasn't closed them down. KQ raised 14bn in the Rights Issue. KPLC raised 9bn. Kenya's economy is not as fickle as the fool thought. KenGen issued a 9bn bond & is looking for 30bn. What did the Thika Highway cost? What do MPigs & Senators cost us annually? How much was kibaki's retirement palace? How much did Safcom make in 2012-13? What loss did Orange make? Kidero wants to raise 40bn from Nairobians. 5.4bn is only 60 days revenue if he succeeds!

Status of the case: KK appealed to the Appeal Court to set aside the idiot's ruling that the award be re-adjudicated. The hearing is set for 3Q 2013 with delays occasioned by the vetting, elections & petitions. According to the lawyer on KK's board, the ruling, if in favor of KK, will continue accruing interest until paid. At 10% p.a. that = 540mn/year!

There are 2 aspects to an award. The judgement/award. The collection/payment. You get a judgement & then attempt to collect. Unfortunately, the process is quite long. So after all the appeals are done & if KK wins, it still has to collect. KK can settle instead of collecting the full amount by negotiating lower transit fees, transfer of storage capacity in various locations, etc whose benefits flow to KK over a few years.

BTW, KES 5.4bn will not bankrupt KPC since it makes huge profits from (monopoly) transit fees as well as the assets it owns. At some point GoK may step in & 'subsidize' KPC like it does NOCK & did for NBK.

Litigation is NOT fun. Not what should happen but sometimes there is little choice. IMO, KPRL should just hand over the stocks they owe to KK. KK would be happy with that as opposed to litigation. As for KPC, they need to settle with the Triton litigants as well as negotiate with KK & close the chapter.

If KPRL & KPC lose vs KK [& I hope KPRL & KPC lose huge] that will open a floodgate of lawsuits [under precedence] against them by others like Vivo/Shell, Total, etc

So my calculations:
KK has 1.5bn shares trading at 10.40 = 16bn
KK has non-core assets it plans to sell within 2-3 years for $60mn = 5bn (assume cost 1bn so net 4bn pre-tax. Capital gains are not taxed in Kenya at the moment but I want to be conservative)
KPRL 3.1bn less 30% discount = 2.2 bn
KPC 5.4bn less 30% discount = 3.8

The NON-RECURRING (pre-tax) GAINS over 3 years = 4bn+2.2bn+3.8bn = 10bn
A more prudent [no more gambling on hedges, no need to fight for turnover, etc] business can yield 2bn (PBT) annually even with price controls.

The pre-tax gains over 3 years = 16bn [value of the firm today] with a going concern & other assets still in place after 3 years.

Taxes: There will be taxes imposed on net gains/collections on any award. There is a chance Capital Gains are introduced & that will affect many firms/investments. The loss in 2012 can be used to offset profits in 2013. The loss of KES 9bn is a lot of 'tax loss' to carry-forward. KRA is unlikely to get much from KK for 2-3 years.

Cashflow: On a cashflow basis, KK benefits from any awards [though it suffers paying the lawyers while it waits] & non-payment of income tax because of loss carry-forwards.

Balance Sheet: KK carries many assets (especially land & buildings) at cost. The sale of under-performing assets will 'unlock' value i.e. we will see 'P&L gains' from the sale which translate to cash or lower debt on the Balance Sheet.

As a Warren Buffett fan, I am not betting on a turnaround as much as the niche (& potential) KK has carved out. It will not be easy but a single stumble (granted it was a major stumble) should not doom KK. Its peers [Total] had 2 bad years but seem positive about the future. It might not be unique to KK. If they make another loss in 2013, then I may reconsider.

Or I have rose-colored glasses on Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
the deal
#86 Posted : Thursday, June 06, 2013 5:31:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Come to think of it...I think KK made provisions for the Sh3.1bn in last years loss.

@VVS KK can make money even in this price controlled enviro...Ohana said margins can be Sh6/l...Total only does Sh4/l...The key thing here is gearing...if KK can reduce its level of debt...reduce running costs...quit low margin biz lines i.e scrap the whole trading desk...put in prudent inventory mngmnt mechanisms then we are in business...what i dont like is this hedge biz...i dont knw which salesman talked them into them...
VituVingiSana
#87 Posted : Thursday, June 06, 2013 5:41:27 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,129
Location: Nairobi
@thedeal

KK likes the Trading Desk. I do too. It is a low margin business but without the need for significant capital except an office, a desk, travel/marketing expenses & a top salesperson. It is better to sell 1mn litres of petrol making 1/- without investing/financing the product.

Banks have Trading Desks for forex. Some make only 10cts per $ but rapid turnover = lots of profits. So 10cts/$ = 0.12% but this is PER TRADE without much risk. And can be done daily. 0.12% x 200 trading days = 24% which is better than lending at 20% with risks of default.

Gearing: I agree. The reduction in debt will help. The problem is that if you want volumes you need debt. It's a tough but fine balance. KK could have done a Rights Issue like KQ but did not. A Rights Issue would have diluted many existing shareholders.

Hedging: I agree. They should have not done it just as KQ should not have. The only winners in 'naked' hedging are those who broker the deals! Just as the only winners in legal cases are the lawyers!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
the deal
#88 Posted : Thursday, June 06, 2013 6:05:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
VituVingiSana wrote:
@thedeal

KK likes the Trading Desk. I do too. It is a low margin business but without the need for significant capital except an office, a desk, travel/marketing expenses & a top salesperson. It is better to sell 1mn litres of petrol making 1/- without investing/financing the product.

Banks have Trading Desks for forex. Some make only 10cts per $ but rapid turnover = lots of profits. So 10cts/$ = 0.12% but this is PER TRADE without much risk. And can be done daily.

With KK its a different scenario...shipping oil from Abu Dhabi in $'s to Zambia or Tanzania...then converting the $'s to KES can wipe out everything due to currency swings i.e last year when the KES strengthen....i.e Buy $110/barrelX Sh85=Sh9350 then all of a sudden in one day CBK intervenes and by the time you are Selling that load KES is at 83...assuming your profit was $2/load then you have $112X83=9296...a loss of Sh54...
smile only way you can win is to hedge in such trading conditions.

Conclusions: Trading desk not needed since i think KK does not have the expertise at the moment to engage in such a business
VituVingiSana
#89 Posted : Thursday, June 06, 2013 7:23:58 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,129
Location: Nairobi
@thedeal - LOL, Trading Desks have multiple roles. The trading in this case [according to KK] is not supplying in local currencies but sourcing & delivering [all US$ based]. As for expertise, I believe they are among the best in the region.

"Trading desk not needed since i think KK does not have the expertise at the moment to engage in such a business" LOL... At the next AGM, I will mention that they should do what YOU "think" they have expertise in Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
the deal
#90 Posted : Thursday, June 06, 2013 7:29:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
VituVingiSana wrote:
@thedeal - LOL, Trading Desks have multiple roles. The trading in this case [according to KK] is not supplying in local currencies but sourcing & delivering [all US$ based]. As for expertise, I believe they are among the best in the region.

"Trading desk not needed since i think KK does not have the expertise at the moment to engage in such a business" LOL... At the next AGM, I will mention that they should do what YOU "think" they have expertise in Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Interesting what is KK's reporting ccy? I thought all $ earnings have to be converted to KES?
VituVingiSana
#91 Posted : Thursday, June 06, 2013 8:19:20 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,129
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
@thedeal - LOL, Trading Desks have multiple roles. The trading in this case [according to KK] is not supplying in local currencies but sourcing & delivering [all US$ based]. As for expertise, I believe they are among the best in the region.

"Trading desk not needed since i think KK does not have the expertise at the moment to engage in such a business" LOL... At the next AGM, I will mention that they should do what YOU "think" they have expertise in Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Interesting what is KK's reporting ccy? I thought all $ earnings have to be converted to KES?
Reporting CCY is KES. No, all $ earnings do not have to be converted to KES. That would be stupid. KK like banks, other firms or even individuals can leave $ (or any other currency) earnings in any currency they choose. As an net importer, KK is better off keeping all earnings in $ remain in $ since they will need it to pay for oil imports.

Many net exporters also keep some of their earnings in $ (or other forex) to pay for imports e.g. Williamson imports machinery, fertilizer, pays for technical services, shipping, etc
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#92 Posted : Friday, June 07, 2013 6:17:01 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,129
Location: Nairobi
And forget KK for a moment. Other OMCs pissed off at KPRL.

http://www.standardmedia...oil-supplies-in-jeopardy
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
hisah
#93 Posted : Friday, June 07, 2013 7:29:48 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
VituVingiSana wrote:
And forget KK for a moment. Other OMCs pissed off at KPRL.

http://www.standardmedia...il-supplies-in-jeopardy

Stinks badly this one. Wondering how many politicians are involved in the oil market...
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
mlennyma
#94 Posted : Tuesday, June 11, 2013 10:15:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,184
Location: nairobi
http://m.youtube.com/wat...FI&fulldescription=1
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
Jamani
#95 Posted : Tuesday, June 11, 2013 10:24:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
normal
BIDS 572,600
Quantity Price Splits Time
500 9.80 1 10:16:34
13,500 9.70 2 10:16:34
10,000 9.60 1 10:16:34
22,000 9.50 3 10:16:34
11,400 9.40 3 10:16:34
ASKS 585,800
Quantity Price Splits Time
74,900 9.90 3 10:16:34
89,500 10.00 3 10:16:34
10,000 10.15 1 10:16:34
1,300 10.25 2 10:16:34
14,000 10.30 2 10:16:34
TRADES
Quantity Price Time
50,000 9.90 09:54:53
7,500 9.90 09:54:53
50,000 9.95 09:47:19
50,100 9.95 09:47:19
19,000 9.90 09:38:48
dunkang
#96 Posted : Tuesday, June 11, 2013 10:27:44 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
mlennyma wrote:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?hl=en-GB&client=mv-google&gl=KE&v=9jJoPpddVFI&fulldescription=1

@VVS, you never fight the government, it always has something to pin you down. Ask Africa's richest man Dangote.
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

mlennyma
#97 Posted : Tuesday, June 11, 2013 10:29:42 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,184
Location: nairobi
If you thought nyoike was the problem you were wrong.
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
Jamani
#98 Posted : Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:05:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
Already major oil marketers are threatening not to abide by Petroleum (Amendment) Rules 2012, under Legal Notice No 24, that requires them to buy 40 per cent of their stock from the Mombasabased KPRL. They claim the aging and inefficient equipment at the facility,coowned by the government and India’s Essar Oil on 50-50 basis, is piling costs due to poor products.

“All marketers have not signed the off-take agreements for next month,” said a chief executive of one of the major nine companies that control 86.4 per cent share in a market with over 70 players. This could throw the country into a crisis as all citizens regardless of their socio-economic status directly or indirectly rely on petroleum products for survival.

Industry players on April 19, through the Oil Industry Supply Coordination Committee, wrote a joint letter to the Government demanding efficiencies at the refinery. They also demanded compensation of Sh7 billion arising from operational inefficiencies at the facility following an audit report by Deloitte that has nonetheless been disowned by KPRL.

http://www.thepeople.co....-sitting-on-a-time-bomb/
Jamani
#99 Posted : Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:19:12 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554

The crisis at the Kenya Petroleum Refinery Limited (KPRL) is set to deepen with the scheduled arrival of another ship carrying crude oil later this week. Already, three other ships are waiting in the high seas to discharge fuel at the Kipevu Oil Terminal (KOT) but cannot do so because there is no space.

The Changamwe plant has already been switched off because all storage tanks are full after boycott by oil marketing companies. The closure has sparked off protests from workers and residents of Changamwe led by area MP Omar Mwinyi.

www.thepeople.co.ke/4323...r-ship-with-oil-arrives/
mwanahisa
#100 Posted : Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:41:49 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
@VVS, you are extremely persuasive with your deep yet succinct analysis of KENOL/KOBIL and indeed the downstream oil market.

Nonetheless, after attending the KK AGM, I was left with the distinct impression that KK WILL report a 1/2 year loss and possibly a full year loss, notwithstanding improvements that have been made so far. I doubt that the sale of assets will have happened in H1 and that appeared to be the only source of "profits" that could materialize in H1.

This is given that Segman and his CFO admitted that Q1 was a net loss position given the fact that some of the hedging losses continued into Q1 2013, not to mention the huge financing costs that the company continues to incur to date.

Granted, I can see that KK is now in recovery mode, but I reckon that a further loss will continue to dampen the spirits of KK investors and would be investors. The fact that Segman came out clearly that there are currently no negotiations for the sale of a stake in KK will also serve to deter speculative investors getting in to cash in on takeover talk.

This has clearly been demonstrated by the steady decline in the share price since the AGM. For this reason, I stand by my previous buying level of Kshs 9 and below, given the fact that any buyers will most likely have to be prepared for an earnings/dividends famine until next year.
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