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Therapist - Alcoholism and Personality Disorders
Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/11/2010 Posts: 918
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I'll cut all that crap about a friend of a neighbor and go straight to my question. Any recommendations for a therapist capable of helping a patient struggling with alcoholism and possible personality disorders? Learn first to treat your time as you would your money, then treat your money as you do your time.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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@seppuku, the first step is accepting there is a problem. Answer yes or no to the following questions: 1. Have you ever felt you should cut down on your drinking? 2. Have you ever been annoyed when people have commented on your drinking? 3. Have you ever felt guilty or badly about your drinking? 4. Have you ever had an eye opener first thing in the morning to steady your nerves or get rid of a hangover? Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/11/2010 Posts: 918
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jguru wrote:@seppuku, the first step is accepting there is a problem.
Nitajibu mahali naweza...
Answer yes or no to the following questions:
1. Have you ever felt you should cut down on your drinking?
Not sure
2. Have you ever been annoyed when people have commented on your drinking?
Yes
3. Have you ever felt guilty or badly about your drinking?
Yes
4. Have you ever had an eye opener first thing in the morning to steady your nerves or get rid of a hangover?
Definitely yes. In fact very often
IMO the patient is still struggling with acceptance but they are slowly inching close. They have accepted to give a therapist a chance after much cajoling, leading to this post.Learn first to treat your time as you would your money, then treat your money as you do your time.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/20/2009 Posts: 1,402
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seppuku wrote:I'll cut all that crap about a friend of a neighbor and go straight to my question. Any recommendations for a therapist capable of helping a patient struggling with alcoholism and possible personality disorders? Well Nacada Lists The Following Mathari mental hospital...huko Anaweza Hepa Asumbi Treatment Centre Redhill Place Kiambu Brightside D.A.R.T Centre Kitisuru Then Google Psychiatrists In Kenya and You Will Be Healed
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/11/2010 Posts: 918
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@Muheani, thanks for these suggestions. However, I am looking for a consultant type of guy and not a rehab. Just to get the patient started. He will likely run for the hills at the slightest hint that anybody thinks he is a nutcase. Learn first to treat your time as you would your money, then treat your money as you do your time.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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I once needed a therapist so much, but I was only a boy with no money and with plenty of confidentiality issues. So I decided to be my own therapist.
A few days ago I came across a book that was emphasizing on the need for the individual to be his own therapist in these times where information is more ubiquitous.
But thinking about what you have said above, and looking at my experience, I say this:
1. Most drinking is driven by fear and
2. If you think there's a personality disorder then the fear hypothesis becomes more plausible.
3. You have often declared yourself an agnostic, is this another sign of fear? Or is it a cause? I am not so sure. But some profiling would shed some light.
As a therapist, I'd begin by pointing out that everything is knowable, with a certain degree of uncertainty of course that can be reduced with higher levels of being.
The therapist's work is to provide a mirror to see yourself. Or rather to stimulate your awareness of the so many mirrors around you, and to set off a method of self reflection.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/11/2010 Posts: 918
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tycho wrote:I once needed a therapist so much, but I was only a boy with no money and with plenty of confidentiality issues. So I decided to be my own therapist.
A few days ago I came across a book that was emphasizing on the need for the individual to be his own therapist in these times where information is more ubiquitous.
But thinking about what you have said above, and looking at my experience, I say this:
1. Most drinking is driven by fear and
2. If you think there's a personality disorder then the fear hypothesis becomes more plausible.
3. You have often declared yourself an agnostic, is this another sign of fear? Or is it a cause? I am not so sure. But some profiling would shed some light.
As a therapist, I'd begin by pointing out that everything is knowable, with a certain degree of uncertainty of course that can be reduced with higher levels of being.
The therapist's work is to provide a mirror to see yourself. Or rather to stimulate your awareness of the so many mirrors around you, and to set off a method of self reflection. Wewewewewewe @tycho, maybe I should have have deployed the usual friend of a friend "tactic" after all! Mimi hapana mlevi. This is about someone else. Na sio mzaha. But you are right about my agnosticism to religion although it hasn't led to any detectable fear or drinking. Not yet at least. Anyway, the patient is question is in no shape for self-therapy. He even has trouble accepting that he has a problem. I know you are a man (maybe woman) much given to theory, conjecture and thought experiments, and that is all very fine. But I will not indulge you today. And certainly not on this thread. I keep going back to my question, someone give me a therapist's telephone number. The guy into whose office my patient can walk and begin to get help. Just begin. Learn first to treat your time as you would your money, then treat your money as you do your time.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/20/2009 Posts: 1,402
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tycho wrote:I once needed a therapist so much, but I was only a boy with no money and with plenty of confidentiality issues. So I decided to be my own therapist.
A few days ago I came across a book that was emphasizing on the need for the individual to be his own therapist in these times where information is more ubiquitous.
But thinking about what you have said above, and looking at my experience, I say this:
1. Most drinking is driven by fear and
2. If you think there's a personality disorder then the fear hypothesis becomes more plausible.
3. You have often declared yourself an agnostic, is this another sign of fear? Or is it a cause? I am not so sure. But some profiling would shed some light.
As a therapist, I'd begin by pointing out that everything is knowable, with a certain degree of uncertainty of course that can be reduced with higher levels of being.
The therapist's work is to provide a mirror to see yourself. Or rather to stimulate your awareness of the so many mirrors around you, and to set off a method of self reflection. Ditto. Simply , an angagement with the individual to progress his "unknown and hidden self" to the "Known self" and in the process enable the individual "see themselves" and "Triumph" over the "burden/s" The challenge is that the "unknown and hidden" space can never remain void, hence individuals have to continually enagage in "self therapy" so as to keep "re-discovering and re-evolving self"
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/20/2009 Posts: 1,402
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back to your question Iam not sure bout the charges, and i dont know any therapist (psychiatrist?) but may be drop an enquiry to the mental helath association as you seek help. http://www.kenyapsychiat...e&id=6&Itemid=18
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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seppuku wrote:tycho wrote:I once needed a therapist so much, but I was only a boy with no money and with plenty of confidentiality issues. So I decided to be my own therapist.
A few days ago I came across a book that was emphasizing on the need for the individual to be his own therapist in these times where information is more ubiquitous.
But thinking about what you have said above, and looking at my experience, I say this:
1. Most drinking is driven by fear and
2. If you think there's a personality disorder then the fear hypothesis becomes more plausible.
3. You have often declared yourself an agnostic, is this another sign of fear? Or is it a cause? I am not so sure. But some profiling would shed some light.
As a therapist, I'd begin by pointing out that everything is knowable, with a certain degree of uncertainty of course that can be reduced with higher levels of being.
The therapist's work is to provide a mirror to see yourself. Or rather to stimulate your awareness of the so many mirrors around you, and to set off a method of self reflection. Wewewewewewe @tycho, maybe I should have have deployed the usual friend of a friend "tactic" after all! Mimi hapana mlevi. This is about someone else. Na sio mzaha. But you are right about my agnosticism to religion although it hasn't led to any detectable fear or drinking. Not yet at least. Anyway, the patient is question is in no shape for self-therapy. He even has trouble accepting that he has a problem. I know you are a man (maybe woman) much given to theory, conjecture and thought experiments, and that is all very fine. But I will not indulge you today. And certainly not on this thread. I keep going back to my question, someone give me a therapist's telephone number. The guy into whose office my patient can walk and begin to get help. Just begin. If you are talking about someone else, then therapy should begin with you beginning the process, and probably getting him or her to self therapy levels. Sending him to an 'authority' without his enthusiasm is likely to fail, and even lead to strained relationships.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/11/2010 Posts: 918
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@Muheani, I'll check out that link. Thanks. @tycho, I've been doing a lot of that. Made some good progress too. For the longest time the patient wouldn't even accept that he has a problem or even be willing to consider therapy. Now he is beginning to warm up to the idea. I am thinking a pro will help nudge him another rung or two up the ladder of recovery. But it needs to be a place he can feel safe and confident and not judged. Learn first to treat your time as you would your money, then treat your money as you do your time.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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seppuku wrote:jguru wrote:@seppuku, the first step is accepting there is a problem.
Nitajibu mahali naweza...
Answer yes or no to the following questions:
1. Have you ever felt you should cut down on your drinking?
Not sure
2. Have you ever been annoyed when people have commented on your drinking?
Yes
3. Have you ever felt guilty or badly about your drinking?
Yes
4. Have you ever had an eye opener first thing in the morning to steady your nerves or get rid of a hangover?
Definitely yes. In fact very often
IMO the patient is still struggling with acceptance but they are slowly inching close. They have accepted to give a therapist a chance after much cajoling, leading to this post. These questions form the CAGE Questionnaire for alcohol addiction assessment. C = Cut Down, A = Annoyed, G = Guilty, E = Eye Opener (Kufungua Lock). Since you answered yes to 3 questions, there is a 99% chance you're addicted to alcohol. I don't know of any therapists who deal with addiction. Mostly they deal with physical and occupational rehabilitation. If the goal of seeking a therapist is to completely stop the use of alcohol, then it a process and not exactly a short-term intervention. I'll explain in successive posts. Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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Alcoholism is a major economic, social, psychological and public health problem. It is nice to note that you have recognised that your drinking is getting out of hand. Most alcoholics are still stuck in denial and precontemplation. A close family member or employer must have spoken to you candidly about your problem, right? The best start to the path to seeking alcohol rehab is to talk to your personal doctor first. He/she will then recommend a psychiatrist that you should visit, if there is enough cause for rehab. The psychiatrist will then evaluate you (diagnose your personality disorder too), and will recommend either an in-patient stay or out-patient treatment. He will also introduce you to a support group like the AA-Kenya. Note that the rehab process is long-term and involves support groups (AA), strong social/family networks, group therapy, rewards, role models and counseling. You might need DETOX if you are dependent on alcohol. Meaning, if you stop you will experience serious withdrawal symptoms (you could die). Or if adequate social support does not exist, other psychiatric problems exist, or relapse has happened after previous treatments. Then treatment has to be done in a specialised and controlled establishment because stopping alcohol might also make you temporarily anxious, disorieted or depressed. Sometimes, medication may be used in rehab. Some drugs limit or slow relapses; some when taken produce nasty unpleasant feelings in your body when you drink alcohol (Psychological Conditioning; remember Pavlov and his dog?); others decrease the urge to consume alcohol. You could actually be able to cut back (drink with moderation) or quit alcohol on your own, without any external influences. However, most alcoholics need help (strong social support) to quit alcohol. Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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Muheani wrote:seppuku wrote:I'll cut all that crap about a friend of a neighbor and go straight to my question. Any recommendations for a therapist capable of helping a patient struggling with alcoholism and possible personality disorders? Well Nacada Lists The Following Mathari mental hospital...huko Anaweza Hepa Asumbi Treatment Centre Redhill Place Kiambu Brightside D.A.R.T Centre Kitisuru Then Google Psychiatrists In Kenya and You Will Be Healed Mathare has a good rehab center. But, you don't want people to know you went there  It's a bit neglected but for those without other options, full boarding and lodging for 8 weeks works wonders. Chiromo Lane Medical center is a psychiatric hospital run by top pyschiatrists. You could call and ask if they do rehab. They should. They treat our MPs and politicians. You could also try Asumbi and Brightside. Visit the place first, and request to know who runs the places. A psychiatrist has to be involved. If they don't have one, bolt. Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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jguru wrote:Muheani wrote:seppuku wrote:I'll cut all that crap about a friend of a neighbor and go straight to my question. Any recommendations for a therapist capable of helping a patient struggling with alcoholism and possible personality disorders? Well Nacada Lists The Following Mathari mental hospital...huko Anaweza Hepa Asumbi Treatment Centre Redhill Place Kiambu Brightside D.A.R.T Centre Kitisuru Then Google Psychiatrists In Kenya and You Will Be Healed Mathare has a good rehab center. But, you don't want people to know you went there It's a bit neglected but for those without other options, full boarding and lodging for 8 weeks works wonders. Chiromo Lane Medical center is a psychiatric hospital run by top pyschiatrists. You could call and ask if they do rehab. They should. They treat our MPs and politicians. You could also try Asumbi and Brightside. Visit the place first, and request to know who runs the places. A psychiatrist has to be involved. If they don't have one, bolt. I have a friend who was once taken to Mathare for rehab, one year later he had a major 'recurrence' of his problem. His Minders had to give up. I also gave up. But after like a year, he bounced back after self reflection. His account of Mathare left me discouraged. I have visited Chiromo lane for some time, and the costs are not only very high, but patients have little time with the shrinks and algorithms are too text book. You'll do much better with self therapy, research, and conversation.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/11/2010 Posts: 918
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@jguru, one more time I say, sio mimi. As for your understanding of therapists, I chose the word to avoid implying knowledge on my part concerning the kind of professional that can address this problem. Therapy just means remedial care of some kind. Labda ni psychiatrist, labda ni psychologist, labda ni a former mlevi... you get the drift? Now, like I said earlier, we don't want to spook the good guy by appearing to call his sanity to question. That makes Mathare a no-no for now. @tycho, thanks for your reviews. See, what I want is this guy to talk to a new, fresh and experienced person. Throughout his denial of the problem, he has also expressed a certain level of disdain for counselors, psychologists and the like. He thinks it's sinking real low. The last thing you want to do to a guy like that is drag him into what he considers a place for people who walk naked on the streets. He might simply refuse to ever go back. That's the reason for my insistence on a private, professional consultant. It's a lot less intimidating and judgmental. This is not even about the process. It's about getting the process started. Learn first to treat your time as you would your money, then treat your money as you do your time.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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You may need to provide some more info on your 'friend' or is it 'son'?. For the new person needs to be his friend. And first contact has to be informal.
One may need to know his age, education level, and hobbies and interests.
Maybe to provide further justification for this, I posit that behavior change must be justified. That is, the pay off needs to be significant enough.
For example, is he willing to see a third person because he wants to preserve your relationship? Or because he wants to be a better person?
There may be a need to find another pay off that is 'individual'.
Pardon my persistence @Seppuku.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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The church might be the way to go  Once he discovers how much Christ loves him, and what Christ can do for him... the rest is nyweee. Bring him to the crusade
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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seppuku wrote:See, what I want is this guy to talk to a new, fresh and experienced person. Throughout his denial of the problem, he has also expressed a certain level of disdain for counselors, psychologists and the like. He thinks it's sinking real low. The last thing you want to do to a guy like that is drag him into what he considers a place for people who walk naked on the streets. He might simply refuse to ever go back. That's the reason for my insistence on a private, professional consultant. It's a lot less intimidating and judgmental. This is not even about the process. It's about getting the process started. See, if a person cannot accept he/she has a problem and needs help, they cannot be helped. Unless he is a danger to himself and others and he is forcefully incarcerated, or he drinks too much one day and he goes into an alcoholic coma and is admitted in hospital, I don't see how else he can be helped. He needs to willingly agree to go for sesssions. AA Kenya usually have sessions at All Saints, Consolata Shrine, Holy Family Basilica etc. He can attend one session and see/hear for himself. He can sit way at the the back and not say a word. He shouldn't be afraid. Everyone in that meeting has the same predicament as his. They also serve free coffee and cookies This journey cannot be taken by one person alone (even 2 people if you add the private counselor). He needs a group/team around him to ensure that he arrives safely at his destination. Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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tycho wrote:I have a friend who was once taken to Mathare for rehab, one year later he had a major 'recurrence' of his problem. His Minders had to give up. I also gave up. But after like a year, he bounced back after self reflection. His account of Mathare left me discouraged.
I have visited Chiromo lane for some time, and the costs are not only very high, but patients have little time with the shrinks and algorithms are too text book.
You'll do much better with self therapy, research, and conversation. Mathare isn't too bad if you look past the old buildings and deplorable conditions. I had a lot of fun talking to those ladies in Ward 1F. Psychiatric drugs raise the libido of these women and if you carry a packet of sweets, they will tell you everything you want to know about them. The naughty stuff, especially They also have a maximum security psychiatric unit. For the hardcore criminals and psychopaths. You have to leave belts, pens, all metallic objects at the gate. Stuff of the movies (Prison Break, Alcatraz, OZ). And they do ECT too for major depressives. Like this:  What ails Mathare is funding and a progressive MOH. Strangely, psychiatry is the most looked down upon discipline in medicine. So, few doctors specialise in it. I think Dr Frank Njenga, Prof Ndetei, Dr Gatere own Chiromo Lane. I'm not so sure. I would suggest you find a favourite shrink and you stick to him/her for some time. I would recommend Dr Pius Kigamwa. Sensible fellow. But they say all shrinks have a psychiatric problem of their own... Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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