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THE GOSPEL - Setting the record straight.
Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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Muheani wrote:Mtu Biz wrote:Let me start from the top... Muheani wrote:@mtubiz
I Think At The End Of The Exposition, The Gospel Is All About John 3:16.
The Verse We Were All Supposed To Memorise But Didnt!!! @Muheani Quoting or memorizing John3:16 in isolation gives an inaccurate..wrong picture of what God is saying here.. consider this.. The context of that chapter is Jesus teaching Nicodemus the meaning of new birth. The verses immediately following John 3:16 read thus.. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God. The Gospel is not just about a loving God. It is also about Sinful man. When John 3:16 is looked at over and over (memorized) in isolation it creates the impression of an all loving God who will indiscriminately embrace everyone.. the believing and non believing (believing here refers to believing the message of the Gospel) This is definitely not the case from the verses following john3:16. Mtu Biz you lost me there a little. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, [i] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life[/i]. The verse doesnt insinuate an all loving God Indiscrimintately embrasing all and sundly. But a loving God Who will embrace those that shall believe (Gospel) in him and he then promises them (believers only) Eternal life. I wud consider 3:16 a central verse. The verses before and after do talk about "flesh gives birth to flesh, spirit gives birth to spirirt" and Hence You must be born again (believe in the heavenly things). You have rightly refered to the verses after. Wudnt therefore 3:16 be central. The issue is believing in the gospel; for Eternal life to be bestowed. as clearly shown in the preceeding V15. The converse would then be true that failure to be believe leads to condemnation. Hence HE is a GOD who shall embrace those that Believe and Condemn those that shall not. @ Muheani Thanks for pointing that out. I concur. I think i kind of have a knee jerk reaction to John 3:16 as it has become the almost cliche scripture used in conversion.. An unrepentant individual gives intellectual assent to the effect that yes i do believe and from there on is declared saved by the councilor/pastor.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/31/2013 Posts: 109
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Is the bible a collection of smart one liner quotes to be liberally dispensed as thought suitable for the occasion?
Can singular verses be quoted to lend credence a world view?
If you are given a verse to read, read the chapter.
If given the chapter read the whole book.
If given the book read the whole collection.
If told God is democratic, reply he is theocratic.
If told the devil can lead one to God, reply that must be a different God.
If urged to go on an eisegesis with supporting bible verses, go on an exegesis instead.
If you are warned about close examination to understand the bible, reply the bereans were commended for doing exactly that.
If you are wondering about the authority, remember
“They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as truth, rather than truth as authority.”
Then your path will be less and less stony.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Ante_Christa wrote:Is the bible a collection of smart one liner quotes to be liberally dispensed as thought suitable for the occasion?
Can singular verses be quoted to lend credence a world view?
If you are given a verse to read, read the chapter.
If given the chapter read the whole book.
If given the book read the whole collection.
If told God is democratic, reply he is theocratic.
If told the devil can lead one to God, reply that must be a different God.
If urged to go on an eisegesis with supporting bible verses, go on an exegesis instead.
If you are warned about close examination to understand the bible, reply the bereans were commended for doing exactly that.
If you are wondering about the authority, remember
“They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as truth, rather than truth as authority.”
Then your path will be less and less stony. Well said. But the stony path? Don't think too lightly of stones. @Alph, authority of all sacred texts, lies on conformity to the laws of God and nature. And consequently, they must evolve in our consciousness. Hence all Scripture has 'evolved' and is 'evolving'. This to some appears as tampering, in the negative sense, but is not. It is human nature. @Mtu biz, a knee jerk reaction is a mindset; now, how much of what you've said isn't a mindset? Either you don't know, or you are lying to yourself. 'For all have sinned and . . .' And it isn't about theology, it is about our being transforming the world through action. If you are commercialized as a person then the Gospel is commercialized.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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Mtu Biz wrote:Mukiri wrote:Following.
I know that God works in mysterious ways Ecclesiastes 1:5, Jeremiah 33:3, Mark 4:11-12, 1 Corinthians 2:7, Ephesians 3:9, 1 Timothy 3:16, Colossians 2:2-3 @Mukiri, when i looked up the scriptures up here, most of them (with exception of Jeremiah and Ecclesiastes) speak about the fact that the Gospel had been kept hidden, was a mystery and so on.. when you quote such please also mention the second part of the story.. that it has been revealed in these last days! 2 Timothy 1 9 He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, 10 but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. Colosians 1 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people. 27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. The scriptures you quoted above do not explain "The lord works in mysterious ways" at all... what did you mean by that? Mukiri wrote:
To judge others or claim to know everything is dangerous, for it is as Jesus Christ says, the Holy Spirit comes upon you and reveals knowledge. John 14:17
John 14:17 primarily says that the Holy spirit works in the believer and is known and received by the believer and a non believer cannot know nor receive him... 15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. How does that relate to this "To judge others or claim to know everything is dangerous".. who were you referring to here? Mukiri wrote:
Therefore as you embark on this journey, I pray that you'll not rely on your own understanding Proverbs 3:5 but seek direction from the Holy Spirit. For James 3:1 says that not everyone should presume to be teacher, for they shall receive a stricter judgment; and teachers are targeted more by satan in spiritual warfare.
Please read 1 Timothy 3, 2 Timothy 2:24-25, Titus 1:7-16
At the beginning of this thread, i quoted my source of authority on this subject. Kindly explain how i would "Seek direction from the Holy Spirit" independently from scripture. @Mukiri Kindly seek to understand the context of the scriptures you quote. Interesting. Am I then to think I'm all wrong? That others are all wrong and you are now the authority of matters of the Bible? That God has chosen you to interpret the Bible for all humankind?
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/31/2013 Posts: 109
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Tycho, stones are there to make you keep your eye on the path lest you stop looking and take a detour ever so slight but no less dangerous.
Mukiri should stop being defensive if he is doing what is right. He gave an example of proverbs 3:5 about seeking direction from the holy spirit.
Can I dwell on that for a minute?
First of all a simple reading of that verse makes one wonder why he thought it fit to substitute 'the lord' with the 'holy spirit' is it a mistake or deliberate?
what else has he misquoted or twisted?
Why not just read it as it reads? Why add to it?
Second, using the same leap of reason, if one were to read verse 6 that follows that verse 5, he would confirm to himself that after acknowledging the lord then whatever path he embarks on is God-directed.
There is no difference between he who wrests scripture from their contexts and one he does not care to read them at all and he who fights openly against them.
Both guide themselves, by themselves, for themselves and to themselves.
Calling a red herring on those who seek to understand and excitedly showing others what they have found out insinuating that they are arrogating to themselves authority is hardly christian.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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Mukiri wrote:
Interesting. Am I then to think I'm all wrong? That others are all wrong and you are now the authority of matters of the Bible? That God has chosen you to interpret the Bible for all humankind?
Take a deep breath......then answer the questions i raised in the previous post. Will you do that for me?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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tycho wrote:
@Mtu biz, a knee jerk reaction is a mindset; now, how much of what you've said isn't a mindset? Either you don't know, or you are lying to yourself. 'For all have sinned and . . .'
And it isn't about theology, it is about our being transforming the world through action. If you are commercialized as a person then the Gospel is commercialized.
@tycho 100% of anything anyone posts here or even thinks is "mindset". The difference is who and what has informed that mindset. Kindly explain what you mean by "Either you don't know, or you are lying to yourself" in bold above
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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Mtu Biz wrote:Mukiri wrote:
Interesting. Am I then to think I'm all wrong? That others are all wrong and you are now the authority of matters of the Bible? That God has chosen you to interpret the Bible for all humankind?
Take a deep breath......then answer the questions i raised in the previous post. Will you do that for me? I don't think so. I'm sort of getting a vibe that this is all about 'Pushing and pulling', something akin to 'I-know-the-Bible-and-you-don't'... My God is a God of love not arguments and exchange of words. That said... We both ascribe to the same Bible. God will make us understand it in a way its best for us individually. The devil would love for it to appear that there is fighting in the house of the Lord. Divide and rule. I refuse to be part of such a scheme. However if your quest is from the Lord, may it prosper.  Continue (albeit without me).
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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Mukiri wrote:Mtu Biz wrote:Mukiri wrote:
Interesting. Am I then to think I'm all wrong? That others are all wrong and you are now the authority of matters of the Bible? That God has chosen you to interpret the Bible for all humankind?
Take a deep breath......then answer the questions i raised in the previous post. Will you do that for me? I don't think so. I'm sort of getting a vibe that this is all about 'Pushing and pulling', something akin to 'I-know-the-Bible-and-you-don't'...My God is a God of love not arguments and exchange of words. That said... We both ascribe to the same Bible. God will make us understand it in a way its best for us individually. The devil would love for it to appear that there is fighting in the house of the Lord. Divide and rule. I refuse to be part of such a scheme.However if your quest is from the Lord, may it prosper. Continue (albeit without me). hmmm... Fair enough. But i must say this.. God does not make us understand the the bible in a way that is best for us individually as you state above. God does however make us understand the bible AS IT IS, our individual tastes, cultures, mindsets, likes and dislikes notwithstanding.
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Rank: Member You have been a member since:: 5/19/2012 Posts: 552
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Mukiri wrote:Mtu Biz wrote:Mukiri wrote:
Interesting. Am I then to think I'm all wrong? That others are all wrong and you are now the authority of matters of the Bible? That God has chosen you to interpret the Bible for all humankind?
Take a deep breath......then answer the questions i raised in the previous post. Will you do that for me? I don't think so. I'm sort of getting a vibe that this is all about 'Pushing and pulling', something akin to 'I-know-the-Bible-and-you-don't'... My God is a God of love not arguments and exchange of words. That said... We both ascribe to the same Bible. God will make us understand it in a way its best for us individually. The devil would love for it to appear that there is fighting in the house of the Lord. Divide and rule. I refuse to be part of such a scheme. However if your quest is from the Lord, may it prosper. Continue (albeit without me). @Mukiri, this doesn't sound right. It sounds arrogant Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.... Leo Buscaglia
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