malizia na posted from my ipad5 :)
a great sermon there.

nice week ahead.

@newinvestor

Are you a new christian as well ?

Please dont get me wrong, iam all for 1st Peter 3:15 i.e

1 Peter 3:15
New International Version (NIV)
15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

Your suggestions above seem to indicate that winning souls is something akin to closing deals.

Jesus never went about trying to Win Souls in the ways you are suggesting above. In fact he presented very unattractive options to anyone who expressed an interest to follow him.

Remember
the rich young ruler?
His reply to the teacher of the law in mathew 8.20 who declared "“Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.”
20 Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”"
His revelation to Peters assertion that he is ready to die for him about him denying him 3 times.
What he told the crowd that had gathered aroung him for the second day about those who follow him eating his flesh and drinking his blood? John 6:56-69

What im i on about.

My issue is with this whole maneno of "making the gospel attractive"

The Gospel is THE TRUTH. It does not need PR. God has revealed this truth by the testimony of the life of Christ on earth and by the revelation of the holy spirit through preaching and the lives of the saints and the word of God.

Remember the story of the rich man and lazarus?

The rich man while enduring torments in hell reasoned with Abraham that if someone was to come from hell and go warn his brothers about the place that they would take heed and change their ways...

What was the reply? 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

No one becomes a (True)christian because he/she has been convinced via logic or persuasive words.

You become a christian when by the conviction of the Holy spirit come to know of how wretched and hopeless you truly are and accept the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and turn from your ways.

@Mukiri

You are asking people to TRY? EXPERIMENT ?
This my friend is impossible to do. What you are asking is for people to pretend. To repeat a 'sinners prayer' and voilla thou art a christian??

How can one TRY or EXPERIMENT with being a new creature spiritually?
This regenerative work is a work of God alone.

Let your light so shine before men that they might see your good works and give praise to the Father in heaven.

Please dont ask people to get exited... make winning souls a priority etc..

No amount of external posturing will 'win' any soul.

I know there is an angry tone in my post... but there's just too much 'Christianity' everywhere and no Christ.

This thread has made me wonder why people bother to speak. If anything, one bothers to speak because there's a need in him or her to speak; a discomfort that needs a response from an other.

Friendship and conversation comes when meaning is shared and appreciated. And so is truth.

So it's not just about logic, but it's also about empathy, support, and mutualism.

While one may not do something by virtue of logic alone, it doesn't follow that a logical argument can set us in the path of truth.

How can someone approach another if there's no attraction? And why should attraction imply PR? How do magnets work?

There are so many levels of language that we should not disparage the idea of attraction so easily.

@Mtu biz signs off by saying that he learned the value of hard work by working hard. Doesn't this imply experimentation and trial?

Does transformation of the self preclude the desire to share truth and even 'convert' others? Isn't this a kind of 'winning'?

Who is a 'new Christian'? Does an old one exist? Or a middle class Christian? The distinction is full of illusion.

@mtu biz... Angry are you? Wonder what the Bible says about that... And might you be angry after judging us(me)? Now, what does the Bible say about judging others?

God is not a respecter of persons Acts 10:34, Romans 2:11, James 2:1-13. Not me, not you. He has converted a killer to a saint, He has used prostitutes and thieves... No one, no means, no object, nothing is out of His means. That would include (my) experimenting, no? I gave an example of clubing, drinking and sex... I'm curious, do those who partake 'pretend'? I know when I did, I did so whole heartedly. With the same fervor pretend/experiment/try with Christ.

@Mtu biz, I'd be careful if I were you... You wish to set out a code under which believers should behave? Ati Christianity without Christ? Are you by any chance a Sadducee/Pharisee? Christ didn't have very kind words for them

@Mukiri.. i'll try and be less dramatic.




What does the bible say about anger?
It says "In your anger do not sin" Eph 4:26
It also says "A Mans wrath does not bring forth the righteousness of God" James 1:20
At what point does anger become sin?

Depends on where it is directed.

If you love children, you will be angry that there is a pedophile on the loose in your area for example.
If you love justice, you will be angry to see a man you know to be innocent thrown in prison on the testimony of false witnesses .. and so on.

Jesus Got angry... and overturned the tables of the money changers in the temple.
Paul got angry, and reprimanded Peter for upholding Jewish tradition against Gentile Saints... and so on.

Judging others ?
Do not feel Judged... feel corrected.
It is not humanly possible for you to know weather i have judged you or not....unless of course you are judging me!
Remember the bible is profitable for reproof and correction(what you are calling Judging)
Too many things have gone uncorrected in the name of "Do not Judge"



Gods ability to transform the sinner is not in question here.
What im trying to say is this.
It is impossible for a human being to experiment with 'getting saved'.
Repentance ... which leads to salvation is not something that can be conjured up by repeating a phrase or two of a prayer. The recognition that you are a hopeless wretched sinner is in itself a work of God in you.
How then can you suggest that one can TRY or EXPERIMENT with salvation if you are not inadvertently inviting people to pretend?



You decide for yourself weather the Gospel as revealed in the scriptures is the FINAL authority as to the conduct of those who claim to subscribe to it.