wazua Thu, May 14, 2026
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In

5 Pages«<345
Father kills Daughter on religious advice!!
youcan'tstopusnow
#41 Posted : Monday, May 06, 2013 5:33:40 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
Tokyo wrote:
" kill my daughter for religion" ??
Some people have been blinded by foreign religion customs practiced centuries ago. No wonder if heavens really exist ( it don't ), I will kindly excuse myself rather than sharing with those characters.
Proud to be an Atheist.

Ati you will excuse yourself?Laughing out loudly
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
AlphDoti
#42 Posted : Monday, May 06, 2013 7:43:49 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Wendz wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
muganda wrote:
Perhaps I need to rephrase... @tycho @Alphdoti today is Sun 05-May-2013.

Please confirm if YOU, would be willing to subjugate yourself to any law or religious dictum that handles infidelity (only for the woman mind you) in this way...

- shoot your daughter 3 times at the back of the head

- obligate sons to stone their mother to death to prove their manhood...

First, understand that you're asking a question which is so obviuos.
You should not forget that Muslims are committed people, if there is law to be followed, then they follow.

<Question> shoot your daughter 3 times at the back of the head?
<Answer> Yes, if she is guilty of the most serious of crimes, punishable by death.

<Question> obligate sons to stone their mother to death to prove their manhood?
<Answer> No. It's very clear in Quran 5:32, you cannot kill innocent human being.


So what should we do
about these people who do serious of crimes like adultery, murder, sodomy, robery with violence, rape etc?
The scholars of Islam say they should be punished, they are criminals and the aim is to find them and kill them as criminals.

[b]If you're Christian
then I tell you even your God (my God too, but I emphasize the Bible here) Says that such crimes are punishable. I can give you evidence in your own Bible.

[/b]



Evidence
That's why in Islamic countries:
- crime rate is the lowest
- poverty is the lowest (obligatory charity) It has nothing to do with the blessings of being in rich oil countries?
- cases of HIV is lowest
- etc

This is true... it also says you do not spare the ROD. However, i haven't seen anywhere in the bible where it says "punish them by death" of whichever form. i do not believe anyone should punish anybody to death for whatever reason. Islam included. If they can however say that they can give life, then, I'd agree, they have a right to take it.

The question I always ask myself is, if the Islam laws were not that "punitive", would people behave the way they do? Are criminal activities lower because people believe in the religion and do good or is it because of the fear of the consequences of that law? Left on their own, without the threat of death - and death in the most devastating way, would the rate be as low? I don't know.

However, i must say, when some people from areas where the countries are generally governed by Islamic law visit areas without such laws (or they are not strictly applied), they let themselves loose and they do the same things that "non-believers"(for lack of a better word) do.

Let me ask, how come in Kenya, we do have Muslims, but we have not heard of these acts? Is it that Muslims in Kenya are way "better believers" than their Iraq counterparts?

You need to know that Islam prescribes punishment for adultery and fornication.
For adultery stoning to death and for fornication, 100 lashes.

How are these laws applied?
Please note that these laws are applied and done publicly. People should be present to observe it.
It is not for entertainment in public, but for them to see Allah's law and application.
The sight of it helps to enforce in the minds of the people that God's laws are being applied and we should avoid these kinds of crimes.

How are they applied in other societies?
the punishment has shifted to being applied in secrecy, in prisons, nobody sees it.
It has only become a statistics in the paper. You hear so and so was executed for a certain crime.
Then it does not have the deterrent effects that it would if it had been done in public.

Fornication and adultery
You know the attitude in West.
They say the Islamic method is outdated, in these times.
This is because there has a been a change in moral standards in the Western countries.
For example a president himself of the country, the presidents of these countries are known for adultery and fornication.
The society accepts it, by electing them knowingly.

I mean go back 30 years ago
this was not acceptable that a president or prime minister could be elected knowing that he does this kind of thing.
However, in our time, with the change in the morality of the society, this has become acceptable.
So naturally, in a soceity where adultery and fornication have become norms, nobody questions it, it is called barbaric.

Fornication and adultery is no longer a crime
Because they say it is consenting adults.
This is the principle, which governs the "rightness" and "wrongness" of sexual relations.
As long as they are consenting adults, then the society has no business to punish them.
This is according to Western culture, where the society is secular, where religion has no place in the applicaiton of law.

So with this kind of an attitude
where we are evolving things, then they say there is no need to punish enyone.
Of course there are peole in the West who are sadden, sicked, by this attitude.
This is the system as potrayed by the media, supported by international political systems.
Whether it is through the UN or wherever, these attitudes are being promoted, and they are penetrating in the Muslim worlds.
You see now there are resistance to the aplication of law for this kind of crimes.

Islam is careful when applying this law
Somebody cannot just accuse another of fornication and law is just applied.
Islamic law requires that there be four witnesses for the applicaiton of this law.

The lashing for fornication of peole who are not married or stoning to death of people who are married cannot be applied unless there are four witnesses.
Reliable witnesses. Not just anybody. But people who are known to be just and righteous.
And without those four witnesses, the law cannot be applied.

That's why the number of cases of people stoned to death or lashed are very few!
Over the last 1400 years to today, they are very, very few. They can be counted.

Now, what is the evidence?
- confession or
- a woman gives birth to a baby, she becomes pregnant while her husband is away.

Where there is clear evidence
the law will apply. But accussions is not enough.
Infact, in Islamic law, if you accuse somebody and you don't have witnesses, then you are lashed 80.
So this makes it very serious, to slander or to say somebody committed adultery, is very serious accussation.

In the case of husband and wife
they catch each other in the act, then they can raise their case in the court and their marriage can be dissolved.
But they law cannot be applied, of punishment to either party, unless the evidence are there e.g. pregnancy

So basicaly, the law is a deterrent.
Something to discourage people and a result of that you find that the rate of this crime is quite low in Muslim countries in general.

Look at our societies today
public display of affection has become a norm in the Western countries.
People hold hands, they kiss and hug each other publicly.
You go to a park and you cannot believe what you can see happening there.
You go there with your family and it gets very embarassing.
Because this has become a norm, people do not feel anything wrong with it.

Shaking the hands of female guests
sometimes a man comes with his wife hte host is kissing the wife of somebody else.
And it is considered as normal, social ettiquette.

Whereas from Islamic puspective, this is discouraged. Strongly discouraged.
Why? Because these kinds of interactions can lead to corruption, especially in where people get together, using alcohol, it is very easy for the limits to be broken.

For example
people travelling on plane, they didn't know each other, they happened to sit together, talked and took a few drinks.
The next thing was that they were covering themselves in blanket and people were saying stop this, even the stewards stopped them.
Of course, they got arrested when they arrived... but these kinds of things should not happen in public

This happens because of the relaxation in moral values.
People in the movies are promoting this.
Fornicaiton, adultery is adored in the norm for movie goers today.
So people are constantly bombarded by this.
The movies are potraying people from all walks of life, common people, .
Everybody seesm to be in love with everybody in one way or another in fornication and adultery.
This is what the movies are telling us.
So naturally people will be encouraged in their personal life to be in love with such practices.

Islam cares for family and its structures
Security of the society is very important in the case of theft and murder.
For example armed robber who is involved in robbery will be executed.

Similarly for the sake of family
the family is the core of the society.
Once that breaks down, you are finished.
So in order to protect that family, the laws are very strong.

Islam encourages
- marriage early,
- it permits polygamy etc.
- All these things like divorce is not difficult, so where people have problems, these things can be worked out and there are options for them.

So beyond that now, wny kind of illicit sex is treated as a grave crime.
And the punishment is very, very grave.

What does the Bible say?
And I should mention, the punishment for adultery is not something Islam introduced.
This is foudn in Mosaic law. It's been around, not something newly introduced.
Islam just revived it, brought it back to the fore-front, and established it, made it alive even until today.
Whereas in other societies it has been lost, the idea is not considered applicable.
AlphDoti
#43 Posted : Monday, May 06, 2013 7:47:50 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Nabwire wrote:
Alpha doti wacha kutuenjoy, ati its better to stone than burn? How now? Both are extremely inhumane.
Ati just because its written in the Quran or Bible, it somehow makes it ok to take another human's life? That same bible says he who is without sin should cast the first stone. This is one of the reasons I would never convert to Islam, ati strangers have control over your life, how now? If she wanted to run away with another man, that's her choice, she should do as she pleases. I know you will pull a line that God says punish her bla bla bla, well let God punish her Himself when she gets to heaven or hell. This is just retrogressive, there's no way I'd let another human being have control over my life!
And that map of yours, ati Somalia has a crime rate of 0.1 to 0.5%, among the lowest in Africa, how now?

@Nabwire the map shows HIV prevalance in Africa. Not crime.
jguru
#44 Posted : Monday, May 06, 2013 9:52:15 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/25/2007
Posts: 1,574
Watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9rMpPtaMUY

The devil lives in most of us. Religion or not.

This is the most brutal, dreadful and barbaric thing I have ever seen.
Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
muganda
#45 Posted : Monday, May 06, 2013 10:00:40 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,907
Whoops @jguru see @harrydre post 26, same link...
On that note, quite apt if I may say so

essyk
#46 Posted : Monday, May 06, 2013 10:46:16 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 4,518
jguru wrote:
Watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9rMpPtaMUY

The devil lives in most of us. Religion or not.

This is the most brutal, dreadful and barbaric thing I have ever seen.

Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Pray Pray Pray Pray Pray Pray


Aish.And those are people's husbands/Fathers kicking and burning like that? Hata kama ni witches Jesus would have forgiven them.
"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
harrydre
#47 Posted : Monday, May 06, 2013 11:10:36 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
kwanza that cucu Sad Sad Sad
i.am.back!!!!
AlphDoti
#48 Posted : Tuesday, May 07, 2013 12:11:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
The other thing is what to do when somebody steals
Muslims are noted for chopping off hand. But of course you hear the media say hacking off hands, as if Muslims take a saw and saw off hands.

Of course, it's not done in this way
But this is media hype to give the impression that there is barbarism among Muslims saying this is how the deal with such crime.

The fact is
yes according to Islamic law, mentioned in the 5th Chapter verse 38 of Quran, Allah says:
"As for thieves, both male and female, cut off their hands as recompense for their deeds and exemplary punishment from Allah"

This is the law
no doubt about it from Allah.
The amputation of the right hand for any person who steals.

But there are conditions
It is not just applied to anybody, under any circumstance, any time.

First
at one point we have to start off from the issue of the times.
If there are times of starvarion, famine, or some kind of tragedy in society and people are state of desperation.
When a person steals under these circumstances, just to survive, then the law is not going to be applied. It is suspended during those periods.

Secondly
if a worker stole from his boss who withheld his pay, then again the law will not be applied because he is stealing what is fairly his.

Thirdly
if what he takes is considered to be public property. If a person steals for example fitting or rugs from Mosque, public transport etc.
It is wrong but punishment would be applied on that individual, but not cutting off his hand because scholars say he had a part in that public property. He had a right in it, because he shared it that right.

Fourthly
if the value of what is taken was less than 10 dirhams (I'm not sure about equivalent Kenyan shilling), then his hand won't be cut off.

Fift
if the item stolen was not in its proper place, that is if something was left carelessly and somebody snatched it , then they won't apply the law.
This is because the person was affected by temptation.
This means the law is applied on a person who's a professional e.g. the pick pocket, the burglar
Because there's no temptation in picking pockets. Someone has to train in it.
So hand will be cut for such person.
Someone breaking into a home, or robs a bank. This is not something out of temptation.

What you find is that, when the law is applied, you find the society rate of theft drops drastically. You can see this in countries like Saudi Arabia, Sudan etc

It creates a sense of security within a society
Where people are not obliged to use large locks and steel doors, put on burglar alarms, all these kinds of things, which are prominent in places like our country Kenya and western countries! People live in fear of breaking.

Now another point
that I should mention is that when the hand is cut off, it is not sawed off using a saw! But it is amputated.
And if the person repeats the offense, then opposite foot will be removed at the ankle. Again not sawed off but amputed.

And if the person continues the crime?
even after all that is done, the law permits his execution.
This means this is obviously a criminal who cannot be reformed, because he's a danger to the society and no way of controlling him.
So that individual's life if taken for the protection of the society.

Again, the punishment may seem so harsh
but it carries with it deterrent value.
The idea of loosing ones hand is something which causes one to think twice.

You know if you go to jail for a year or six months because of stealing, you know people are willing to take a chance as opposed to loosing your hand.
This situation will cause a person to think twice before committing such crimes.
essyk
#49 Posted : Tuesday, May 07, 2013 12:17:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 4,518
harrydre wrote:
kwanza that cucu Sad Sad Sad

I lack words.The man just watched himself burn without putting up a fight
ngatho!witches don't feel pain?
Then kuchomwa na dried leaves Pray Pray
"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
5 Pages«<345
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2026 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.