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KenolKobil FY 2012 substrata loss of 9b!
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VituVingiSana
#71 Posted : Thursday, April 11, 2013 1:49:05 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,361
Location: Nairobi
Mainat wrote:
When something is important to your bottomline, but you are aware that you don't have comparative advantage, outsource. KQ & EA Portland have taken hits, but it seems nobody can learn anything.
Imho, hedging should be outsourced to banks who have the expertise...
Of course, because the banks have the best interests of their clients at heart.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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guru267
#72 Posted : Thursday, April 11, 2013 4:27:45 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Mainat wrote:
When something is important to your bottomline, but you are aware that you don't have comparative advantage, outsource. KQ & EA Portland have taken hits, but it seems nobody can learn anything.
Imho, hedging should be outsourced to banks who have the expertise...
Of course, because the banks have the best interests of their clients at heart.


At least it would end up being better than the mess they are in now!

Get ready for more derivative losses in 2013 as the shilling strengthens! I'm sure they tried to hedge the expected election shilling weakness Sad
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Mainat
#73 Posted : Thursday, April 11, 2013 5:11:19 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
guru267 wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Mainat wrote:
When something is important to your bottomline, but you are aware that you don't have comparative advantage, outsource. KQ & EA Portland have taken hits, but it seems nobody can learn anything.
Imho, hedging should be outsourced to banks who have the expertise...
Of course, because the banks have the best interests of their clients at heart.


At least it would end up being better than the mess they are in now!

Get ready for more derivative losses in 2013 as the shilling strengthens! I'm sure they tried to hedge the expected election shilling weakness Sad


Guru267-VVS gets emotional about stocks he is invested in so you've to understand the sarcasm in that context. Kitchen-heat and all that...
Sehemu ndio nyumba
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Aguytrying
#74 Posted : Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:38:11 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
Lets talk numbers.
1.What does the loss do to the assets of the company?
2.How does it affect the shareholders stake in the company?

bear with my basic questions
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
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mkonomtupu
#75 Posted : Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:50:44 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
Aguytrying wrote:
Lets talk numbers.
1.What does the loss do to the assets of the company?
2.How does it affect the shareholders stake in the company?

bear with my basic questions



KK has some good assets sometime back the management had talked about going into real estate. I hope they can pursue the same instead of selling assets to support a retail business with low margins and price controls. You can't spend good money chasing bad money. If they can't negotiate with the new govt to remove or relax the price controls its best to leave that sector to NOCK to do oil retail business the govt can absorb the losses that come from the inefficiencies in this sector but not private capital. Shareholders want to make money it doesn't matter from which sector. It's time KK management realised this or they surely but slowly go down the tubes
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Aguytrying
#76 Posted : Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:59:30 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
The share price action after announcement of the loss is having me worried. ITs the top gainer today so far at 10.25(5.67%).
I would have been ok with the share getting hammered to 8-9 in the short time, because it would MAKE SENSE!
This doesn't make sense. It leaves me wondering why? why is there so much demand and might the buyers know/or think they know something. Or is it just the cool aid going round at the NSE at the moment.
Either way as a shareholder i feel more at risk now than if the share plummeted. I have this eerily feeling that the music might stop at any time.
Im i alone in this?
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
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simmons
#77 Posted : Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:04:26 AM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 1/28/2013
Posts: 61
Location: Nairobi s
Aguytrying wrote:
The share price action after announcement of the loss is having me worried. ITs the top gainer today so far at 10.25(5.67%).
I would have been ok with the share getting hammered to 8-9 in the short time, because it would MAKE SENSE!
This doesn't make sense. It leaves me wondering why? why is there so much demand and might the buyers know/or think they know something. Or is it just the cool aid going round at the NSE at the moment.
Either way as a shareholder i feel more at risk now than if the share plummeted. I have this eerily feeling that the music might stop at any time.
Im i alone in this?

Tuko wengi
Never be afraid to try something new.Remeber,amateurs built the ark Professionals built titanic.-Anonymous
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stocksmaster
#78 Posted : Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:10:18 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/26/2006
Posts: 463
Location: CENTRAL PROVINCE
Aguytrying wrote:
The share price action after announcement of the loss is having me worried. ITs the top gainer today so far at 10.25(5.67%).
I would have been ok with the share getting hammered to 8-9 in the short time, because it would MAKE SENSE!
This doesn't make sense. It leaves me wondering why? why is there so much demand and might the buyers know/or think they know something. Or is it just the cool aid going round at the NSE at the moment.
Either way as a shareholder i feel more at risk now than if the share plummeted. I have this eerily feeling that the music might stop at any time.
Im i alone in this?


The share action is baffling!! A company making the largest loss in the nse history then within two days its the highest gainer in the nse market.............If you are a shareholder, its a golden opportunity to sell at current prices just incase it a case of a calculated prope up action.

Happy hunting.
x handle: @stocksmaster79
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VituVingiSana
#79 Posted : Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:12:56 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,361
Location: Nairobi
Mainat wrote:
guru267 wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Mainat wrote:
When something is important to your bottomline, but you are aware that you don't have comparative advantage, outsource. KQ & EA Portland have taken hits, but it seems nobody can learn anything.
Imho, hedging should be outsourced to banks who have the expertise...
Of course, because the banks have the best interests of their clients at heart.


At least it would end up being better than the mess they are in now!

Get ready for more derivative losses in 2013 as the shilling strengthens! I'm sure they tried to hedge the expected election shilling weakness Sad


Guru267-VVS gets emotional about stocks he is invested in so you've to understand the sarcasm in that context. Kitchen-heat and all that...
Banks (including the IBs) the world over always look out for #1 aka themselves. See actions of Goldman Sachs e.g. CDOs & MBS sold to their clients while they took the contra position. Who came out ahead?

It is unlikely that KK [or KQ whose CFO, IMHO, was totally clueless about their fuel & forex hedging] went out hedging ovyo ovyo. The chances they had a 'bank consultant/advisor' are very high.

I like the management. A mis-step? Yes. A huge mis-step? Yes. A recovery? I am confident. Another buyer? I except a new buyer in 2014 OR a strategic investor who will bring in cash/financing, connections (supply chain), etc like WPP in ScanGroup.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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  | | Edit by user: Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:22 AM | Reason: Not specified
mwekez@ji
#80 Posted : Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:18:44 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
mkonomtupu wrote:
Aguytrying wrote:
Lets talk numbers.
1.What does the loss do to the assets of the company?
2.How does it affect the shareholders stake in the company?

bear with my basic questions



KK has some good assets sometime back the management had talked about going into real estate. I hope they can pursue the same instead of selling assets to support a retail business with low margins and price controls. You can't spend good money chasing bad money. If they can't negotiate with the new govt to remove or relax the price controls its best to leave that sector to NOCK to do oil retail business the govt can absorb the losses that come from the inefficiencies in this sector but not private capital. Shareholders want to make money it doesn't matter from which sector. It's time KK management realised this or they surely but slowly go down the tubes


@mkonomtupu, Could you have even a rough estimate of the true value of KK assets? &why KK choose to convert to historic valuation of the assets? It makes it very difficult to decrypt value in the Balance Sheet which would be good to know incase another takeover comes knocking or when the worst comes knocking
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