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KenolKobil FY 2012 substrata loss of 9b!
mwekez@ji
#41 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:48:33 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
the deal wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
When you lose a job at times you are forced to sell assets,for a company which was expanding like kk,a turn of events to sell assets is a very bad signal to any mindful investor,it means they cant meet their obligations through cash reserves in other words broke.

Offcourse you are more broke than KK...theyre selling non perfoming assets...KK is very liquid...look at their cash flow statement.


@the deal, sales turnover, sales volumes & cash at the end of 2012 were down 13%, 21% and 33% respectively. The increase in cashflow from operations was because they sold most of the stocks they were holding consequently reducing the stock holding to KES 8.9 from KES 24B. KK is going through a desperate time and is seeking desperate measures as pointed by @mlennyma
the deal
#42 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:49:09 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
mlennyma wrote:
It can be very bad if some guys throw this bad news aiming to buy cheap.

Offcourse not everyone is as backward thinking as some of you...you do realise Kenol is still in business...making money as we speak...the loss happened...its in the past...move on.
stocksmaster
#43 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:51:59 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/26/2006
Posts: 410
Location: CENTRAL PROVINCE
mlennyma wrote:
It can be very bad if some guys throw this bad news aiming to buy cheap.


@ mlennyma: It is the nature of capitalism (An economic system based on a free market, open competition, profit motive and private ownership of the means of production.)

The investors at the nse have smelt an opportunity to buy the kk share at a song helped by the disastrous 2012 financial year results. It is perfectly legal but not necessary moral to scare the weak hands into offloading at panic prices (Ksh 5).

Having said that, after analyzing the financial results of KK, i was shocked that almost 90% of its retained earnings accumulated over almost a decade were wipped out in this one financial year!! This may mean that for the next 3-4 years, the company has to painstakingly recreate those retained earnings hence a depressed dividend payment policy going forward.

I will only therefore consider it at a sub Ksh 5 price.

Happy hunting.
the deal
#44 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:53:40 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
mwekez@ji wrote:
the deal wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
When you lose a job at times you are forced to sell assets,for a company which was expanding like kk,a turn of events to sell assets is a very bad signal to any mindful investor,it means they cant meet their obligations through cash reserves in other words broke.

Offcourse you are more broke than KK...theyre selling non perfoming assets...KK is very liquid...look at their cash flow statement.


@the deal, sales turnover, sales volumes & cash at the end of 2012 were down 13%, 21% and 33% respectively. The increase in cashflow from operations was because they sold most of the stocks they were holding consequently reducing the stock holding to KES 8.9 from KES 24B. KK is going through a despite time and is seeking desperate measures as pointed by @mlennyma

Nonsense....whats the purpose of inventory? Do you know what inventory is?
hisah
#45 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:55:11 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
mlennyma wrote:
It can be very bad if some guys throw this bad news aiming to buy cheap.

Buy low, sell high. That's always the rule...

$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
mwekez@ji
#46 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:56:46 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
the deal wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:
the deal wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
When you lose a job at times you are forced to sell assets,for a company which was expanding like kk,a turn of events to sell assets is a very bad signal to any mindful investor,it means they cant meet their obligations through cash reserves in other words broke.

Offcourse you are more broke than KK...theyre selling non perfoming assets...KK is very liquid...look at their cash flow statement.


@the deal, sales turnover, sales volumes & cash at the end of 2012 were down 13%, 21% and 33% respectively. The increase in cashflow from operations was because they sold most of the stocks they were holding consequently reducing the stock holding to KES 8.9 from KES 24B. KK is going through a despite time and is seeking desperate measures as pointed by @mlennyma

Nonsense....whats the purpose of inventory? Do you know what inventory is?


You should know how to speak well. am done with you!
Aguytrying
#47 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:00:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
mlennyma wrote:
It can be very bad if some guys throw this bad news aiming to buy cheap.


If I was a strategic investor I would be buying in bucket loads now and apply for takeover when I reach threshold
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
the deal
#48 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:01:51 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
mwekez@ji wrote:
the deal wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:
the deal wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
When you lose a job at times you are forced to sell assets,for a company which was expanding like kk,a turn of events to sell assets is a very bad signal to any mindful investor,it means they cant meet their obligations through cash reserves in other words broke.

Offcourse you are more broke than KK...theyre selling non perfoming assets...KK is very liquid...look at their cash flow statement.


@the deal, sales turnover, sales volumes & cash at the end of 2012 were down 13%, 21% and 33% respectively. The increase in cashflow from operations was because they sold most of the stocks they were holding consequently reducing the stock holding to KES 8.9 from KES 24B. KK is going through a despite time and is seeking desperate measures as pointed by @mlennyma

Nonsense....whats the purpose of inventory? Do you know what inventory is?


You should know how to speak well. am done with you!

You can go to hell with your crap analysis.
mwekez@ji
#49 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:05:04 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
No wonder Puma withdrew their bid
Jamani
#50 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:05:12 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
It's a case of willing buyer desparate seller. I welcome the lowest price possible
mwekez@ji
#51 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:07:32 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
the deal wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:
the deal wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:
the deal wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
When you lose a job at times you are forced to sell assets,for a company which was expanding like kk,a turn of events to sell assets is a very bad signal to any mindful investor,it means they cant meet their obligations through cash reserves in other words broke.

Offcourse you are more broke than KK...theyre selling non perfoming assets...KK is very liquid...look at their cash flow statement.


@the deal, sales turnover, sales volumes & cash at the end of 2012 were down 13%, 21% and 33% respectively. The increase in cashflow from operations was because they sold most of the stocks they were holding consequently reducing the stock holding to KES 8.9 from KES 24B. KK is going through a despite time and is seeking desperate measures as pointed by @mlennyma

Nonsense....whats the purpose of inventory? Do you know what inventory is?


You should know how to speak well. am done with you!

You can go to hell with your crap analysis.


I detest your distasteful language even if you are going through a tough loss
dunkang
#52 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:17:11 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
mwekez@ji wrote:
the deal wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:
the deal wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:
the deal wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
When you lose a job at times you are forced to sell assets,for a company which was expanding like kk,a turn of events to sell assets is a very bad signal to any mindful investor,it means they cant meet their obligations through cash reserves in other words broke.

Offcourse you are more broke than KK...theyre selling non perfoming assets...KK is very liquid...look at their cash flow statement.


@the deal, sales turnover, sales volumes & cash at the end of 2012 were down 13%, 21% and 33% respectively. The increase in cashflow from operations was because they sold most of the stocks they were holding consequently reducing the stock holding to KES 8.9 from KES 24B. KK is going through a despite time and is seeking desperate measures as pointed by @mlennyma

Nonsense....whats the purpose of inventory? Do you know what inventory is?


You should know how to speak well. am done with you!

You can go to hell with your crap analysis.


I detest your distasteful language even if you are going through a tough loss

Plunge protection club. Bloggers for hire. 5/- it is.
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

mkonomtupu
#53 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:32:38 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
With regard to KK and Total I just have to give the Lawrence Garfield speech in that movie "Other Peoples Money"

"Amen, and amen, and amen. You'll have to forgive me, I'm not familiar with the local custom. Where I come from, you always say 'Amen' after you hear a prayer. Because that's what you just heard - a prayer. Where I come from, that particular prayer is called 'The Prayer for the Dead.' You just heard The Prayer for the Dead, my fellow stockholders, and you didn't say, 'Amen.' This company is dead. I didn't kill it. Don't blame me. It was dead when I got here. It's too late for prayers. For even if the prayers were answered, and a miracle occurred, and the yen did this, and the dollar did that, and the infrastructure did the other thing, we would still be dead! You know why? Fiber optics. New technologies. Obsolescence. We're dead, alright. We're just not broke. And do you know the surest way to go broke? Keep getting an increasing share of a shrinking market. Down the tubes. Slow, but sure.


You know, at one time, there must've been dozens of companies making buggy whips. And I'll bet the last company around was the one that made the best god-damn buggy whip you ever saw. Now how would you have liked to have been a stockholder in that company? You invested in a business and this business is dead. Let's have the intelligence, let's have the decency to sign the death certificate, collect the insurance, and invest in something with a future. 'Ah, but we can't,' goes the prayer. 'We can't because we have responsibility, a responsibility to our employees, to our community. What will happen to them?' I got two words for that - 'Who cares?' Care about them? Why? They didn't care about you. They sucked you dry. You have no responsibility to them. For the last ten years, this company bled your money. Did this community ever say, 'We know times are tough. We'll lower taxes, reduce water and sewer.' Check it out: You're paying twice what you did ten years ago. And our devoted employees, who have taken no increases for the past three years, are still making twice what they made ten years ago. And our stock - one-sixth of what it was ten years ago. 'Who cares?' I'll tell ya -- Me.


I'm not your best friend. I'm your only friend. I don't make anything. I'm makin' you money. And lest we forget, that's the only reason any of you became stockholders in the first place. You wanna make money! You don't care if they manufacture wire and cable, fried chicken, or grow tangerines! You wanna make money! I'm the only friend you've got. I'm makin' you money. Take the money. Invest it somewhere else. Maybe, maybe you'll get lucky and it'll be used productively. And if it is, you'll create new jobs and provide a service for the economy and, God forbid, even make a few bucks for yourselves. And if anybody asks, tell 'em ya gave at the plant.

And by the way, it pleases me that I'm called 'Larry the Liquidator.' You know why, fellow stockholders? Because at my funeral, you'll leave with a smile on your face and a few bucks in your pocket. Now that's a funeral worth having!"
mwekez@ji
#54 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:33:49 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
dunkang wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:
the deal wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:
the deal wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:
the deal wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
When you lose a job at times you are forced to sell assets,for a company which was expanding like kk,a turn of events to sell assets is a very bad signal to any mindful investor,it means they cant meet their obligations through cash reserves in other words broke.

Offcourse you are more broke than KK...theyre selling non perfoming assets...KK is very liquid...look at their cash flow statement.


@the deal, sales turnover, sales volumes & cash at the end of 2012 were down 13%, 21% and 33% respectively. The increase in cashflow from operations was because they sold most of the stocks they were holding consequently reducing the stock holding to KES 8.9 from KES 24B. KK is going through a despite time and is seeking desperate measures as pointed by @mlennyma

Nonsense....whats the purpose of inventory? Do you know what inventory is?


You should know how to speak well. am done with you!

You can go to hell with your crap analysis.


I detest your distasteful language even if you are going through a tough loss

Plunge protection club. Bloggers for hire. 5/- it is.


he he, its a one man plunge protection club - blogger for hire
mlennyma
#55 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:04:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,184
Location: nairobi
Kenya is kks biggest market and price controls are making profit margins a struggle,dont defend a company in trouble in courts and financially,.we are not saying its fortunes cant change to the better in the far future.
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
selah
#56 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:27:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
I read in their report that they rolled over the derivatives that contributed to losses in the Q4 of 2011...why did they have to do that....anyway the management made a gamble and CBK punished them for it by treating KK like any other speculator.

The game it was trying to play using the forward contract in a market like ours was dangerous....Maybe they learnt a lesson but it is too painful for us retail investors who failed to take advantage of the hype created by the buyout plans
'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
Mainat
#57 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:32:02 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
When something is important to your bottomline, but you are aware that you don't have comparative advantage, outsource. KQ & EA Portland have taken hits, but it seems nobody can learn anything.
Imho, hedging should be outsourced to banks who have the expertise...
Sehemu ndio nyumba
sparkly
#58 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:01:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
mkonomtupu wrote:
With regard to KK and Total I just have to give the Lawrence Garfield speech in that movie "Other Peoples Money"

"Amen, and amen, and amen. You'll have to forgive me, I'm not familiar with the local custom. Where I come from, you always say 'Amen' after you hear a prayer. Because that's what you just heard - a prayer. Where I come from, that particular prayer is called 'The Prayer for the Dead.' You just heard The Prayer for the Dead, my fellow stockholders, and you didn't say, 'Amen.' This company is dead. I didn't kill it. Don't blame me. It was dead when I got here. It's too late for prayers. For even if the prayers were answered, and a miracle occurred, and the yen did this, and the dollar did that, and the infrastructure did the other thing, we would still be dead! You know why? Fiber optics. New technologies. Obsolescence. We're dead, alright. We're just not broke. And do you know the surest way to go broke? Keep getting an increasing share of a shrinking market. Down the tubes. Slow, but sure.


You know, at one time, there must've been dozens of companies making buggy whips. And I'll bet the last company around was the one that made the best god-damn buggy whip you ever saw. Now how would you have liked to have been a stockholder in that company? You invested in a business and this business is dead. Let's have the intelligence, let's have the decency to sign the death certificate, collect the insurance, and invest in something with a future. 'Ah, but we can't,' goes the prayer. 'We can't because we have responsibility, a responsibility to our employees, to our community. What will happen to them?' I got two words for that - 'Who cares?' Care about them? Why? They didn't care about you. They sucked you dry. You have no responsibility to them. For the last ten years, this company bled your money. Did this community ever say, 'We know times are tough. We'll lower taxes, reduce water and sewer.' Check it out: You're paying twice what you did ten years ago. And our devoted employees, who have taken no increases for the past three years, are still making twice what they made ten years ago. And our stock - one-sixth of what it was ten years ago. 'Who cares?' I'll tell ya -- Me.


I'm not your best friend. I'm your only friend. I don't make anything. I'm makin' you money. And lest we forget, that's the only reason any of you became stockholders in the first place. You wanna make money! You don't care if they manufacture wire and cable, fried chicken, or grow tangerines! You wanna make money! I'm the only friend you've got. I'm makin' you money. Take the money. Invest it somewhere else. Maybe, maybe you'll get lucky and it'll be used productively. And if it is, you'll create new jobs and provide a service for the economy and, God forbid, even make a few bucks for yourselves. And if anybody asks, tell 'em ya gave at the plant.

And by the way, it pleases me that I'm called 'Larry the Liquidator.' You know why, fellow stockholders? Because at my funeral, you'll leave with a smile on your face and a few bucks in your pocket. Now that's a funeral worth having!"


Clap clap clap... what a speech!
Life is short. Live passionately.
sparkly
#59 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:06:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
the deal wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
It can be very bad if some guys throw this bad news aiming to buy cheap.

Offcourse not everyone is as backward thinking as some of you...you do realise Kenol is still in business...making money as we speak...the loss happened...its in the past...move on.


At @the deal, I am in KK but when things are bad, we gotta admit it. Its bad! how we make good of a bad situation is another issue.

Imagine if KK makes a similar loss in 2013. We will be talking of liquidation. Thats a company you want to think twice before you put in your money.

For the people already in, its time to minimise your risk to acceptable levels.
Life is short. Live passionately.
holycow
#60 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:35:27 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 972
Location: Home
This one has defied gravity for now!, stuck at above 9/=
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